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Not really a complaint...
Wasn't sure to post in Theme or Here.

So I've been back playing about a month, am on my third character in that amount of time because the first two were disappointing. But I still am trying to figure out the economy....

Keep in mind, I'm not badmouthing the game, just sharing my own personal feelings and frustrations.

Now I don't want anyone to say exactly how you do something, or what there is to expect, but here are the perceptions I've formed since being back based on my VERY limited experience with the current game.

Kay, so you come into the game, naked and alone as you always have, and from there you can do a plethora of things, most of the coded things like Need anything fetch quests and crate running are simply there for a form to make SOME money, but not as a definitive thing that people are trying to thrive off of. I say thrive because you can easily survive, albeit a boring existence to run your 3-5 packages a day and go about your business.

So surviving on crate money is possible but probably not preferred I would assume, again, based on my limited experience back at the game.

Now items, I am aware there is many ways to acquire an item more so than buy # from thing.

There are fixers, there are markets, there are corps etc etc.

But when I looked about, when I look at simple things, like for example, basic du-wear protective clothing or basic nexus clothing. It's cost is astronomical.

Now I've heard it said by both Staff and oldbie player alike that your real paydays, your real money is made through roleplay, things you do with other characters and/or npcs of the world as they are to be treated exactly like they are real players.

But short of running up to every NPC and saying, "Hey man, I have an idea how to make us some money... (for example)" I haven't seen it.

So I guess the question is, is everything beyond basic gear, like a progia and a cloning setup supposed to take weeks or months to acquire? I mean even if you work at a corp, and are a corpie and have a member pad, you still make 10-20k a week in salary, which means it would take you something like two weeks to a month depending on expenses to buy a full set of Nexus purely on your salary. And that's if you're not paying out 80-90% of it to keep your corp apartment afloat without a member/perma pad.

I looked at one item I wanted today for my character and it literally would take me a real life month to save up at my current rate of income, if I average it, for one item.

So I guess the question and the frustration is, If the players with all the flash, the rich folks aren't using you for their plots and machinations, are you supposed to seek out staff assistance via NPC movers and shakers to get any serious bankroll going?

Also what's too crazy, am I supposed to @add-note or @request-puppet the ability to rob a store, or something more violent and dangerous to get the proper risk for the reward?

In closing, I get that roleplay is supposed to be the BEST way to make funds, but what roleplay? How do you get your in? I find myself literally doing the same schedule everyday, running from bar to bar at the behest of Where the party is, and finding nothing after the hours of RP in the bar that advances my character. It's a little frustrating to say the least.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Not to sound condescending, but you simply don't have the hang of the game yet.

Money doesn't come from NPCs and being broke and frustrated is meant to be -the- motivating factor for developing your character. Mixers are worried about their next meal and protecting themselves from violence, and Corpies have refined keeping up with the Joneses into a nuclear arms race. Players who just make weekly wages and hoard them are not driving RP. Get out there, meet people, bitch about being broke, and scheme to land a big score. You will probably fail, but losing is fun.

If you feel like you don't know how to do that, then it's time to find a senpai.

From my perspective, it was pretty slow getting into the sorts of RP that will eventually drive things forward. Patience was the biggest thing, and finding ways to make a character look more attractive to those who could get me to a more active place. I try to give some slack to a new character, but it's a game of what can you do for me? Very few characters are going to give something for nothing. As you do manage some interactions with other players and they are happy with the results, you will likely find more interaction with other players than that one.

As for the making chyen from plots....I'm still working on that one, but it's more a matter of being able to visualize an idea and then figure the details out from what I've seen.

As Vera said, making money in Red is meant to be really hard. I feel like trying to go it alone and figure things out yourself as an immy would be really difficult. I'd suggest finding a role model who has the kind of lifestyle your character wants, and then figure out how they got it.

If you find you don't enjoy playing a poor Mixer immy as they try to survive, you could make a character deliberately to be a corpie and then pursue that. Corpies tend to make more money and can buy more things, although you might be surprised at how hollow it feels compared to saving up for a month for that neXus jacket your Mixer wanted--and then having it stolen from you by thugs.

In short, the Mix and topside have different playstyles and different opportunities, it's all about what you prefer. But the best thing you can do is find someone interesting and figure out how they do what they do.

I think you have a skewed perspective of what is cheap and what is expensive. Du-Wear is probably dirt cheap for any decently salaried corpie, but for an immigrant or a Mixer who has been around for a month, it is extremely expensive. If you find yourself at the bottom of society you might think the game is just unbalanced when in reality your character is just a poor and insignificant member of society.

You can see there's a huge gap inbetween the perspectives and I believe that's a good thing, because classism is part of the theme. Even not having money to buy gear can be good RP because now you have a reason to bitch at the bar and find people you can relate with and scheme something. Or maybe, you can think outside the box and beat up someone and steal their gear, or hire a dipper to lift it for you after you hire a P.I. to see what they carry around.

You need to stop trying to click a magical button or keyword or catching GMs on a good mood to get a NPC in your side. Instead you should focus on making roleplay for and with other characters. NPCs can give you money but it is nothing compared to what you can achieve by playing by the theme and fucking someone over. If you are in a place where you ask yourself how do I get started?, look around and make a goal out of something. You see that Doughboy has a lot of Du-Wear and you want it for yourself. You see that Doughboy has a Progia-9 or a Progia-11 and you want it for yourself. You think that Doughboy speaks too much or you don't like him because he's a Catholic and you're an Eternalist and you want to beat him up for it. My approach is to find an excuse for motivation and just make it happen with other players (generate roleplay FOR them).

There are ways to solve problems and get what you want without thinking: "oh well, this costs seven thousand, and I make three thousand a week, so I need to wait three weeks to buy it, in the meanwhile I'll just walk around aimlessly". Then someone else who actually plays the theme comes along and steals it from you. This is something I've seen happening. A player hordes gear for months eventually someone kills them and steals it all, and they grow OOC frustration. You'll eventually think the game is a constant grind and you'll probably quit, but you are just looking at it the wrong way.

Ditto villa.

Always ditto Villa.

Hey Jago, I remember feeling the same way, and I think Villa really hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. Something that I have found useful is to put your character in a position of danger. Running crates day in and out is boring, and as you point out, a total grind. The rewards are equally grindy.

On your third character, I would suggest pushing the envelope with their RP. Are they a tough guy? Get tough with people, even if OOCly you know you'll get your ass whooped. Are they an aspiring fixer? Go find an existing fixer and convince them to hire you. You will automatically run the risk of getting double-crossed, beat up, etc. by sticking your neck out, but the risks are generally met with equal opportunity for reward!

Bars are a good place to start, but not always, explore the map, get people to explore with you, plan a scheme that seems larger than life for your character to execute and don't do it alone. Try to find powerful allies or just any ally in general, this will generate RP for the both of you and I guarantee you will both benefit somehow down the road even if your partner double-crosses you. It will have been fun and exciting in a way that delivering a crate to Olga's Fallout Shop is not.

As to the toys, which are secondary to the RP but are totally cool and fun, again you're going to want to scheme your way into getting them if you can. The theme of the game is cooperative competition, so you will not be punished for trying to set up some elaborate trap that lands a fancy new something-or-other in your pocket without paying a dime, so long as you don't mind rubbing the blood off of it.

RP big, put yourself in danger, be prepared to lose (and win), and have fun!