NPC "Attitued"

Hello, I have been playing Sindome for about 3 months now and that would make me a “fairly new” player, since I know some people have been playing for almost a decade.

I have to say that for the most part I quite enjoy the game, it has provide me with hundreds of hours of free entertainment and for that I am both grateful to the staff and the player community.

However, there is something which I have encountered that often discourages me of enjoying the game and that is the “attitude” of NPCs when interacting with them.

I don’t know if this has only happened to me or if it is supposed to be part of the “Theme” but 90% of all interaction between NPCs and my character have been negative. Mixers are rude, hostile and physically aggressive. Copies are condescending, arrogant and unhelpful. Law enforcement agents are self-righteous bullies with a badges. The list goes on, you get the idea.

So honestly, it is extremely disappointing that after spending several minutes trying to get a GM to respond, when the puppet comes to life it generally treats you badly. My personal experience with NPCs has dissuade me of wanting to interact with them at all if I can avoid it, because they don’t seem to listen to reason or to persuasion and almost always put my character in a bad situation and generally leave him worse off. I have been slapped, yelled at, insulted, robbed, assaulted, beaten, undermined, ignored, etc by NPCs.

Anyway, I just wanted to express my frustration and give you guys my 2 chyen about this matter.

Also I would very much, like to hear about other players personal experiences with NPCs and maybe even hear the opinion of staff members regarding the subject.

By olpolok at Oct 20, 2014 10:12 PM

Mixers are rude, hostile and physically aggressive. Copies are condescending, arrogant and unhelpful. Law enforcement agents are self-righteous bullies with a badges. The list goes on, you get the idea.

I'm glad we're accurately portraying the theme for you! Thanks for the feedback!

By Cerberus at Oct 20, 2014 10:13 PM

I am glad, that my post amuses you but I was hoping to get a more concrete response.

By olpolok at Oct 20, 2014 10:23 PM

That was a 100% serious response.

By Cerberus at Oct 20, 2014 10:24 PM

While sometimes I'm sure it can feel this way, and it's definitely very CP for basically every man and his dog to kick you while you're down, treat you like shit, and then take a dump on you - In my experience for the very long time I've been playing the interactions one has with NPCs tends to take everything into account, even if you've forgotten it. Each NPC, just like a player has their own personality, their wants and needs.

Everyone wants what they want, and to hell with anyone else. I know in times gone past I've felt kind of the same way you do, but after a period of time, I came to see the point they were making.

Maybe, just maybe, I was acting like a total dick. Keep on persevering, and you'll keep on having a blast. I'm sure of it.

By Gerik at Oct 21, 2014 2:00 AM

I completly agree with Cerberus, before a baka even starts playing the game, it should be NO surprise that Mixers are dangerous, Corpies are snobs, and the Law is inflexible.

Most NPCs have more power than your character, no matter how old it is.

3 months is plenty of time to learn what doesn't work and how to maybe approach people who have stuff your character doesn't have, or who have given your character something they don't want, and do it in a way which at a minimum doesn't make the situation worse and at best earns your character a good result.

Some player-characters have an easier time than others at not demanding from, offending or otherwise alienating people around them in the game world.

Also:

NPCs are harsher than PCs some of the time for a couple of different reasons. One is that players can be fluffy, NPCs can't. Another is that players are willing to invest however much play time they have into setting up double and triple layers of loyalty and influence. NPCs are more direct and straightforward, overall and in general.

The good news should be, that should make them more predictable than PCs.

Here's an exercise:

Before deciding what to have your PC do, ask yourself, "What's the worst that could happen if I do this where NPCs can observe it?" or "How is this NPC -likely- to respond to this particular attitude/demand/request/need/joke/threat/whatever other action?"

Sometimes you know, as a player, exactly what your character is likely to provoke, and you have them do it anyway, accepting the negativity, if it's in character for your character. Other times, you think for your character and help them navigate the world successfully.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this up, olpolok, you aren't the only player who feels this way sometimes. I can't explain why it's easier for some than for others to play along with this and not feel OOCly negative about it, or to play along with this and get less IC negativity, but let's help each other here.

It's the reality of the theme and of the game, but, there are ways to 'play along' and not wind up feeling like it's an unfair game.

Players:

Care to come up with any examples of how to be successful when dealing with these violent, entitled, powerful people in the game world?

By Linekin at Oct 21, 2014 10:48 AM

Like Cerberus and Gerik have said, those types of responses are 100% cyberpunk. Mixers have been repressed and used by everyone around them, so they tend to be rude and irritable (not to mention dangerous). Corpies look down on Mixers (and anyone else who doesn't have as much as they do) and law enforcement... I shouldn't even have to explain.

As has been said before, NPCs all have their own personalities/wants/needs/desires/perspectives. Think about what these might be when you need something from them. What are you bringing to them for what you want in exchange?

If you address an NPC about something, perhaps leading off with something that will pique their interest or their wallet. Or even making idle chit-chat with them when you don't need anything from them, establish some rapport.

Also, like Linekin alluded to, there is a number of reasons why people respond certain ways. I'm not going to list them, because that's a little too much IC info for these boards. But think about the things you see in real life, what type of people are you more inclined to be nice to or to just brush under the rug? What specifics about them make you react that way? Think about these things when approaching NPCs.

By Swashbuckler at Oct 21, 2014 10:58 PM

-->Care to come up with any examples of how to be successful when dealing with these violent, entitled, powerful people in the game world?

Well the most simple is being capable of doing something the NPC wants in return. Having something they want. A nice set of shoes, a fancy knife, a skill they need, chy, or being able to take care of a problem. If you prove useful to them, they might be more inclined to be useful to you.

By Esther at Nov 24, 2014 2:17 AM

-->Care to come up with any examples of how to be successful when dealing with these violent, entitled, powerful people in the game world?

I second Esther's idea: Sometimes, agreeing or offering to do something FOR a character or agreeing to give something TO them will "grease the palms". Especially ones who don't really have a reason to help you - like, they don't know you. Or they aren't in a position where it's their job to do for you what you want them to.

(Notice that I'm not even talking solely about NPCs anymore. I observe frequently that people don't like PC 'attitued' either sometimes, and even though it's been stated above that there can be differences between how NPCs might react vs. how PCs are, the same principle can save your powerless, needy ass and keep it from getting creased, fired or Judged no matter what kind of person is running the character.)

Besides the "what have you done for me lately" concept, there's another VERY important tactic to keep in mind.

For MOST characters you'll try to interact with, even the ones who seem like it IS their job to do for you what you want them to, you need to put some effort into avoiding offending them.

Don't fly the wrong color or show the wrong tats or walk with the wrong baka when you're trying to pitch your services to a ganger. Check your hygiene at a minimum and maybe even your attire before you go apply for a corpy job or even try to get an appointment or talk to a shopkeeper topside. If a Judge stops you, that might not be the time to show whoever's running the Judge character how awesomely you can do your indignant badass fuckyou pig RP.

Stuff like this.

Common sense. If you're playing a Mixer, play the theme that shit is dangerous and decide whether it's in character for your PC to put effort into preserving their life and limb by living to plot another day. If you're attempting to go/be topside and achieve anything there, be prepared to play along with the theme of "conforming" in order to not alienate those fucking snobs. Whether your character considers themselves any kind of a criminal or not, remember that the Jakes don't even NEED any provocation at all to treat you like one, and the LEAST little thing will put them over the edge till you have a charge and a fine.

People in real life don't like playing suck-up with the people around them, and maybe that's the reason that there are players who can't do it in the game either, they're too eager to get that defiant, I-got-da-power RP on so they can "have fun". Well if the theme were different, maybe that could work, but the fun in the cyberpunk/Sindome theme is in plotting to get what you want while managing at the same time to at least take advantage of others and maybe even fuck them over, depending on how much they provoke your character and how touchy your own character is.

Last thing:

I know it's easy to take things personally when you as the player don't intend to provoke a negative reaction and your character gets one anyway, but, your character is not you and the negative results your character might get reflects on their IC behavior and choices, not on your popularity as a human being in the real world.

By Vetra at Nov 24, 2014 9:29 AM

Vetra touched on this and I'm going to touch on it as well.

You are not your character..

No one should be OOCly upset or offended (I know there is bleed at times and that can't be helped, happens to the best of us, but in general) when an NPC doesn't like their character.

The path to respect in character is usually paved with lies, betrayal and death.

NPCs are played as themely as possible under all circumstances. What OP described was actually, as Cerberus pointed out, quite the positive feedback for us. That description was pretty spot on for how we want those sets of characters to play.

There are, of course, exceptions to these general rules. NPCs who would totally buck the trend. Part of the fun of the game is finding them and (potentially) aligning yourself with them.

It's a struggle. We are (mostly) nice people on this game. Yet be play (mostly) terrible ones. That is what I mean when I say cooperative competition.

We all cooperate OOCly to compete ICly. An NPC being a dick does not mean the admin don't like your character. In most cases, it probably means you're doing what you're supposed to be doing!

-Slither

By Slither at Nov 29, 2014 10:12 AM

The only problem I've had with an NPCs is inconsistency with Judge NPCs

One takes your statement, lets you walk on. You walk two blocks, the next Judge has no idea you were just talked to by another Judge for some reason and decides to slap you with a giant fine for the same thing the last Judge just told you to walk away from.

By stryder at Nov 29, 2014 3:34 PM

Those pesky Judges.

By Esther at Nov 30, 2014 3:15 AM

>>One takes your statement, lets you walk on. You walk two blocks, the next Judge has no idea you were just talked to by another Judge for some reason and decides to slap you with a giant fine for the same thing the last Judge just told you to walk away from.

At least they're keeping consistent with RL in that sense. :)

By Jade1202 at Nov 30, 2014 7:05 AM

Stryder, what you are talking about is an IC problem. It's called bureaucracy. This is themely and something you should embrace.

By Slither at Nov 30, 2014 9:29 AM

Sure I guess it could be themely if the WJF wasn't the most well-funded, most well equipped semi-military in the Dome with the best computer and communications equipment available.

By stryder at Dec 6, 2014 2:26 PM

Equipment is one thing, individual people? Maybe he knew the other guy let you go and decided, "no, fuck that, this baka can't get away that easy."

Just because -ONE- judge is willing to let you walk away, does not mean they all will. There is nothing theme breaking at all about this.

By Swashbuckler at Dec 6, 2014 3:55 PM

You understand that different people play different Judges, right?

And that stuff happens which a given Judge might, deliberately or negligently, fail to enter into the record?

So that the second Judge might be clueless that something was already addressed?

Maybe the first Judge did what they did in order to come later for leverage and have you do something for them.

Sorry, I do not buy for a second that the whim of individuals in law enforcement is unthemely.

By Vetra at Dec 6, 2014 5:57 PM

I know I'm late to the party on this. But to hell with it. I'm posting anyways. :)

You wanted thoughts / examples, but, though I can't give IC info, I'll see what I can do?

"Mixers are rude, hostile and physically aggressive. Copies are condescending, arrogant and unhelpful. Law enforcement agents are self-righteous bullies with a badges."

Sums it up.

Each player and NPC I have interacted with have been great fun in their own ways. "NPC's" (treat them as players and not mindless robots) - From the rude Mixer who thinks shit all over sic to the Mixer who smirks but nods at you after you smile and make a comment that shows you scan, from the rude Corpie who looks down on anything resembling Mixer to the Corpie that thinks it's nice just to have someone that's not an ass showing up to ask them a question. From the law enforcement bully to the law enforcement person that actually seems to give a shit ("seems to" may be the operative words). The various gangers that treat you different ways (even the same ganger) from when you luck out to when your luck runs out - all have been RP'd well and all have been fun in their own way (including learning experiences).

But key thing to remember is people are assholes. (Watch the new Judge Dredd and Bladerunner for a couple examples.) This is the dark future where people are suppressed and try to scrape out a living or a slice of something at least. You have a character that smells bad or speaks rudely (both?), well, just like real life, you get certain reactions. You don't smell bad - you can still get shit from people.

Note to new people - Players and characters are two different entities (Even with so-called NPC's). Do not take how someone is treating you IC'ly (in character) as something personal to you ooc'ly (out of character). Don't be rude in local (or world ooc) please.

Your character acts suspicious and rude and dodgy, you'll be treated a certain way (with suspicion and questioned, maybe even slapped around, threatened, etc.) but that is not player's treating you that way. It is characters. NPC's are player characters too in a sense. Character's have history / certain jobs / suspicions due to previous RP you will not be aware of - it's not personal.

It's "in character" RP.

Relish it. :)

By thecraftydragon at Dec 16, 2014 4:51 PM

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