- JustSomeGuy 36s
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a Cerberus 5h Head Builder & GM when I need to
- Cyberpunker 11s
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- YourLeftHand 8h
j Johnny 10h New Code Written Nightly. Not a GM.
- Azelle 7h
And 21 more hiding and/or disguised
Connect to Sindome @ moo.sindome.org:5555 or just Play Now

OOC Bitching
Will result in being banned

This is not the first time, nor, unfortunately for us, I expect the last time, that the admin of Sindome will need to address the following issue. �However, I am going to speak as plainly as possible, and lay down the rules as specifically as possible, right now, for all of you.

#1 - Do not assume that you know what the hell is going on behind the curtain, what the admin are doing, saying, or trying to do, to or around your character, or any other character. �

#2 - Do not assume that we are out to get you, just because things are not going your way. �We are not out to get you. �None of us. �We are out to keep the game moving forward, to play our alts on occasion, and to have fun and make the game fun for everyone else. � Sometimes that means bad things, this is cyberpunk. �Try to enjoy it and make something out of it.

#3 - Do not assume you know what GM is doing what puppeting and therefor blame that GM for something bad that happens to your character.

#4 - If you do, for some reason, have an issue, where you think one of the first 3 items is happening, under no circumastances are you allowed to take your frustrations out on OOC-Chat, or AIM, or E-mail, with NON-ADMIN. �Your single, one sided opinion on why the admin are out to get you, without any knowledge of what's actually going on either with the admin or the other players, and what may have went into any bad thing that happened to your character, is not something you should ever be talking about with other players. �It ruins the game. �It's happened in the past when players OOCly hear a one-sided argument about why the Admin are horrible or wrong or out to get them, and the Admin don't respond because it's OOC and responding would reveal IC info, or just make the situation worse. �

Anyone who does this, I say this to you: �You have only your own best interests in mind, not that of the game as a whole, and I urge you to go play another game. �Perhaps Cybersphere, or a full-on MUD that doesn't even have GMs. �Stop posioning the player base, and stop runing the game for both the other players and the GM that dedicate their free time to make the game interesting FOR YOU. �

That's right, maybe you forgot, but we don't get paid. �Any donations you make go towards server maintenance and fees. �And on occasion advertising, but most of the time, that's not donation money, that's our own money that we put in so that more players will be on so that YOU can have more fun.

We don't GM to have a power trip. �We do it because we love the game and we want it to continue to exist. �We are a community, but this rampant back biting and bad mouthing, I've seen it before, and I know where it leads. �

If you have an issue with an admin, then here is a novel idea, talk to another admin about it! �If you don't want to xhelp, there is always AIM, or Facebook. �I don't want anyone here to say they couldn't get a hold of me, FireStorm, Johnny or Guardian, if they spent more then 2 seconds on Facebook or Google.

I'm not kidding around about these rules. �I've already issues a 2 week ban to one player for doing it, and I will continue to issue bans as people break these rules. �

Again, if you have a problem with an admin, talk to another admin. �If you have a problem with all admin, or you think your character is being picked on, singled out, or something else, first look back at your IC actions over the course of your characters life and realize that pretty much everyone who plays the game, has made serious enemies and maybe now the bill has come due. �If you still feel like you are getting 'picked on' which is something I, in 11 years playing this game and 6 years admining have NEVER seen done in an OOC manner (undeserved ICly) by an Admin toward a Player, then go find another fucking game.

~Slither

So, this is still happening. �And it's pissing me off. �I don't know where the mentality that as long as it is your character doing something bad to someone else, it's okay, but the second something bad happens to you, you flip out -- but it needs to end.

Stop complaining. �Seriously.

On a side note, in case there is some confusion. �Admin alts are -players- too. �You treat them the same way you treat any other player. �They follow the same rules that you follow. �That is the end of it. �Do not expect an admin alt not to kill you, rob you, etc, just because you know they are an admin alt, and if they do one or all of those things, shut the hell up about it. �

We put endless hours of our own time in to the game, by GMing, working on the website, creating new code, fixing bugs, moderating the forum, working on the Grid, and I would expect that to mean we are entitled to play and ENJOY the game once in awhile without having to hear OOC bitching over xhelp about how it's so unfair because our alt characters have been around for so long -- guess what? �There are plenty of non-alt characters that have been around for a long time too.

We get to play the game too and we deserve to be able to enjoy it just as much as you do. �

I'm getting really sick of having to write about this. �If you do not trust the admin to GM and also play their characters, then you should find another game. �I swear the next person that flips out on xhelp, is getting banned for an extended period of time.

If you have an issue, take a few moments to reflect before you start bitching because I promise you, you will not be playing this game for awhile if you don't.

I've left this forum unlocked so if you feel the need to comment, go ahead.  I will address whatever you feel needs to be addressed.

I think one of the major problems here is that quite a few players are under the impression that they know what's going on and assume shit happens to them because of OOC reasons - because this or that admin hates them, or this or that player has it in for them OOCly or whatever.

First, keep in mind, we don't have it in for anyone. If there's a player I don't think I can handle fairly for whatever reason, I pass it on to FS or Slither or Griz. Likewise, if there's something they don't believe they can handle correctly, they pass it on among each other or to me.

Similarly, if players are pursuing some kind of weird OOC grudge - we see all the shit you do. All. Of. It. Though certain things we make sure not to see, lest we need to pour bleach in our virgin eyes. This means that if something is off, we look into it. If something is not quite IC, we jump on it and observe and make sure everything is on the level, kosher and halal.

This doubly goes for admin alts - admins apply the rules much more strictly to their alts (and their co-admins' alts) than we do to players. None of us is afraid to ask the other why their character did this or that.

We're here to make the game come alive, to nudge players and NPCs this way and that to keep shit interesting, exciting and dangerous. If we wanted to power trip we'd do it somewhere that doesn't require hours upon hours of work on a daily basis to maintain. We have jobs and shit, you know?

So stop making silly assumptions based on half-truths you heard from a friend of a friend's dentist's cousin's dog's groomer's cousin twice removed's roomate's proctologist.

As Plato wrote in Apology (relating to Socrates, who I believe is with us on the MOO):

"I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know."

But if that's too heavy for you:

http://youtu.be/2EwaFkPMdlY

Slither

And all of you players who DON'T do this, but ALLOW it to go on, well this is on you too. When someone says or does shit like this to me I don't just let it slide. You shouldn't either.

I think the ooc-chat channel on moo is garbage. If you are here to play the game than you have no reason to ooc chat, with anyone on moo, ever. I think that not only does it ruin the game to watch people talking about some movie in the middle of your RP(yes I'm aware you can shut it off) It gives players the illusion that there are circles of friends in game, some of which contain admin, and that feeds this thought-line of favoritism. Weather it's true or manufactured really doesn't matter for many reasons. I also think that every character and npc should be held to the stat cap standard if any are. I also think that there are some chars should quit crying and get up off their oldbies, like my stats say (even though my character is less than a year old.) Time for a cyberpunk exit. Maybe that bug wasn't fixed for a reason. Finally I think that anyone who's been playing for less than like 5 years has no business being a admin, but that's just me.

@jotun:

@xsilence ooc

Eh, so you already know you can turn it off. All right.

Might as well just say that Skype and AIM and email are bullshit, is the point I'm trying to make. OOC communication is unstoppable. At least if it's in OOC-Chat, or even Game-Help, then it's obvious who's ruining the game by breaking the IC wall.

I sincerely hope I'm not one of those people. Someone club my character with the cluedildo if I am.

That there are circles of friends in the game is not an illusion. The belief that it leads to favoritism is what we're talking about.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't have beefs IC or OOC either. I'm enjoying the game and taking seriously the need for that IC/OOC wall. As long as people honor the wall, it's good for the game.

Last comment: i may have pestered about some things over xhelp, and been persistent about it when I don't get an answer, but it's not 'cause I'm complainig about fairness, it's 'cause I don't understand what may have happened and just want a clue how my character should react appropriately. Hopefully this ain't troublesome.

Skype, AIM, and Email are not under the control of the SD admin. OOC fluffy doucher chat is.

Skype, AIM, and Email are not under the control of the SD admin. OOC fluffy doucher chat is.

When someone is friends with an admin, and they are successful, and someone who is not friends with an admin isn't successful, even if it's one of those situations where you were screwed over for RP, and especially if they are newer and don't know most of the people here and how they act, it is human nature to make assumptions like this. I'm not saying I agree with it, or subscribe to this belief, but the more you don't know about how the game works, the more you speculate. I also think secrecy and this whole "you don't know what we are doing" attitude, and forcing people to rp via caps, and keeping stats and skills and game mechanics all mystical all contribute to this feeling, esp for new players.

Just to make one matter clear: Becoming an admin is all about behaviour, maturity and the ability to separate IC from OOC. It is also about having a thick skin as your every action will be overseen by every other admin. All of those aren't related or even achievable merely by playing sindome for over 5 years.

I don’t think the problem is people being OOC friends, or even using OOC chat to talk about movies or suggest book titles to read. It is kind of entirely the point of the chat system. The problem is people being OOC friends with the player and it bleeding over from character to character. A character perms, yet when they re-roll they approach the characters their deceased character was friends with and pursue grudges against people their character shouldn’t even know.

You can hate everyone IC, most characters do. It doesn’t mean you have to hate the players.

I think the main problem isn’t OOC chat. It’s abusing it. Using it to rant and flame other players after your character is mistreated. And I gather that there is a fair bit of abuse being hurled at admins which is unfair considering how much time and effort they put in FOR FREE. Yet when they actively play their own characters they are accused of cheating and abusing the system or that they should perm because they are ‘stronger’ or better equipped.

I’ve only been playing for a year now but because of things like this the number of available admin has dropped astronomically. Probably in part due to RL commitments but also because they are sick of our (The players) bullshit.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and assess their attitudes. Roll with the IC punches and deal with it in character. Slinging shit at or about other players and admin doesn’t help anyone. It just detracts from the game.

Rant over.

@Jotun In regards to OOC-Chat.. you remember back in the day we didn't always have it. Back then if you wanted to talk to another player OOCly you asked for their AIM. Or checked their @Profile and IM'd them. The consensus with creating OOC chat was that we realized there was simply no way to stop OOC communication, so let's create a means of communication that is in-moo and that we can monitor and that lets the admin and other players enforce the rules of OOC Communication.. it may not stop people from chatting on AIM or Facebook, but I I think it decreases it, while also building a sense of community and giving the players a chance to recognize that just because someones character dislikes your character, it's not personal, it's Sindome.

I also think that should be our new motto.

It's not personal. It's Sindome.

It sums up my feelings about that game. Or maybe..

All's fair in war and Sindome.

Both are motto's I wish everyone would adopt. Or..

Bad for my character means fun for me.

Think I'm going to create a new topic just for motto's.

Also if you think an admin has done something wrong you can always complain via email to johnny or slither.

Creating a wave of rants over any OOC channel doesn't add anything positive to your claim. Send your case to the higher powers and they'll give us a wooping if needed.

I like when Jinxypoo gives me a whooping.

Many admin can tell you how serious I take actual or perceived abuse. Please don't take out your grief, justified or not, in the public space. Bring it to an administrator you trust. If you don't feel you can't trust any of us, then I would encourage you to move beyond your problem or find another game, as we're not all going to go away and then things will be happy, so why waste your time trying to change us?

Now, about the things that get said on the OOC-Chat channel. We may move to disable your ability to chat and possibly the ability to even see or referenced on the OOC-Chat channel when certain events happen. You get knocked out, you die, you just cloned back, etc. Blackout periods. You're all too likely an emotional bag of butt hurt or an egotistical prick in these moments and any 'benefit' from the channel does not outweigh the apparent detriments.

I have enabled OOC-Chat blackout periods when you're knocked out, when you start dying and when you enter the afterlife (AKA Limbo). These blocks do not go away when you exit these states. They are time based.

Additionally, anyone in the $void can not talk on either the OOC-Chat channel or the Game-Help channel.

Outburts on the Game-Help channel when you get knocked out, start dying or enter afterlife will be sternly dealt with. If you're frustrated, take a long walk. Seriously, we're all fat and need to get off the computer once in a while anyway and there ain't no app for your Google Glasses yet.

If you have suggestions or concerns about this new restriction, please feel free to email me privately if you don't think you can trust other staff members.

As a new player, I would just like to say that OOC chat has some very important uses. For instance, my 2nd day I got jacked. I did not even know the syntax for closing and unlocking doors, and was workin on this when someone rolled in and locked me up in my room. This scene eventually led to me being grappled, and, having almost no knowledge of my options, I was able to ask ooc what I could do. The person jacking me (complete asshole IC, OOC was super helpful) was able to use OOC to at least give me a fighting chance. Which, ultimately allowed me to escape relatively unharmed! There is a very real need, though abusing this system is surely as easy as some keystrokes. It requires some responsibility on behalf of the community, but, there is a real need for the channel...

OOC-Chat is not the place for help. Game-Help (xgame) is. Everyone just be aware of that. Of course, you -can- ask on OOC-Chat, but hopefully when you do, someone directs you to xgame as well.

If you silence xgame you can @xlisten game or @xcon game.

Related to that, Game-Help is not for banter, jokes, philosophical discussions on game matters, idle chit-chat, etc. Once a topic on Game-Help goes past answering the original question, it should move over to OOC-chat so that Game-Help can keep a high signal to noise ratio.