- Ebos 1m
- Baron17 25s
- Storm 7m
- Neekly 20m
- Malakai 1m
- DiamondNine 2m
- Lycanthorph 1h
- wiebman 1h
- crashdown 2m
- Ghostinthekeys 3m
- Diani 3h Shake hands with him! Charm her!
- Fire 1m https://i.imgur.com/CF2ywFy.jpg
- Melpothalia 56m
- Malanth 5h
a Cerberus 1h Head Builder & GM when I need to
- Cyberpunker 3h
- Scarlyt 8h Sindome is ace.
- Stelpher 1h
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- jsmith225 6h
- YourLeftHand 5h
j Johnny 6h New Code Written Nightly. Not a GM.
- Azelle 3h
And 15 more hiding and/or disguised
Connect to Sindome @ moo.sindome.org:5555 or just Play Now

Earned Experience and Tasks

Recently a GM put forth an idea about daily tasks involved in player professions/jobs that earned you your salary or bonus pay and promotions.

I won't talk much about that but I think it's a great idea. I'll leave it to the GM to talk further on that.

My idea to expand on this daily tasks idea is to award maybe 1 or 2 UE for the completion of a certain number of tasks by the player ontop of the daily 3 UE that is awardable for being online.

This would help encourage players to be active online and doing something whether other players on online or not, and they would be available and active visibly for new players to take notice of and current players to seek out for RP.

It would raise the visibility of the player base and reward our dedicated players with a few extras points so they can feel like they're actually gaining ground on the oldbies competitively speaking without too much of an unfair advantage against those who cannot play for long hours.

Being a player who spends well over eight hours a day on Sindome, It's sometimes depressing to think about how long it takes to catch up and be competitive with a lot of the long standing characters out there.

It takes months just to build a solid base skill and stat wise, and if you play a lot and really enjoy SD and get out there and RP it up that you should be given the opportunity to get ahead and catch up, If Joe Schmoe Oldbie wants to stay competitive alls they gotta do right now is log in 3 times a day and keep getting UE.

How about we allow the noobs to make them oldbies have a reason to be active and play more often to keep their UE edge and encourage more active play and less idling all around.

Looking forward to the feedback.

Implants actually level the field quite considerably nowadays, and you'll find that with the right implants it's possible to do so, also what if said oldbies also complete these tasks? Then you're simply making the status quo worse.

This is not the case at all.


Implants level the playing field for agility, because it's possible to gain 4 or more levels with roughly 100k in chy.

That is oldbie level agility, but what about perception?

You'll see a minimal gain in strength and endurance with injections but this won't make you oldbie strong.

Just don't think that injections and implants are a win button it takes a VERY solid base of stats to make good use of those things and that BASE of stats can take 6-8 months to achieve.

Combat is very specific in its requirements when trading blow for blow and we lack the player base to really make use of solid tactics..

We may have enough active characters to do tactical situations but theyre almost never online when IC situations arise that these tactics can be exploited.

Anyway we're going off the course.

What you said isn't really correct. Oldbies that get ahead with a few extra UE a day DESERVE it because it's making them ACTIVE in the game.

Thats a good thing, and we can still keep up with them if the noobs are active in the game, it doesn't make the problem worse, it sustains the current status quo for active players and encourages inactive people to get their act together and start enjoying the game again like the rest of us.

Let me make this clear though..

I have no interest in holding back active players in their characters development simply because inactive players who log in once a month might fall behind the curve of UE gain.

We need to reward our active players and encourage others to become active.

It would benefit us all if we put our dedicated and active players as our top priority and not hold them back because of people who either don't have enough fun to play all the time or are unfortunately not able to play as much as they wish.

It's a shitty situation but no one that actively plays should be punished for those that do and cannot actively play.

The UE system as it is exists was designed as a compromise in order to promote RP by avoiding the grind seen in MUDs and commercial MMOs specifically to avoid laying disadvantages on the game's audience - working adults.

There's no guarantee such a system would guarantee more RP. The task system Rastus suggested was job-related. If your bonus experience idea were to tie into that, players could well stick to these tasks and ignore whatever they choose since hey, they're doing their job and they'd rather grind the money and UE anyway.

IIRC a long time ago Damon (was it?) was working on an AE system but that either got so backburner'd everyone forgot about it or it got canned. That system looked a bit more interesting.

What it really looks like here is that you're asking for more UE.

That said, if you spend more than eight hours a day on a game, you have a problem and should get help because it can, will and may already have affected both your mental and physical well-being. At the very least, follow Johnny's lead and get a bike.

I feel like that kind of attitude is the problem.


Let's say hypothetically if 6 year old character with 2500 UE spent kills joe schmoe newbie of 1 year with roughly 950 UE spent and not much on combat.

He perms this character.

Joe Schmoe newbie needs to start from scratch and he won't be at where he was for another year, while oldbie will be yet ANOTHER year worth of UE ahead of him by then.

Soo how about we stop perpetuating the system that worked BEFORE there was 6-10 year old characters and allow COMPETITION to breed within the NEW PLAYERS which are the FUTURE of the MOO.

Tactics only work so much, you still need a year or two of base stats before you are even relevant...

Let's say I get 6 newbies together and try to thwart that fucking Seven Ecks.

Let me tell you from experience, the evade penalty from 6 newbies is NOT going to be able to bring down Seven Ecks....

not even with a collective 1 million chyen in cybernetics in the newbies.

This system is failing the MOO, newbies can't compete, they realize this and they stop logging in, i've been watching people come and go for 8 months while we've been wasting money on advertising.

Our new player retainment is not very good.

And how about you NOT worry about how much someone plays the moo.

I donate a -lot- of money to keep this game running and I am going to play as much as I want.

(Edited by DigitalTyranny at 2:07 pm on Feb. 16, 2011)

Then you get someone else to kill Seven Ecks for you.

Typically older players try to avoid perming newer players. In fact, most of them will bring a dead newer player to Genetek to clone 'em if they find out he didn't have a clone. And that's how it worked even before there were 9-10 year old players.

I don't think the UE system prevents player retention. I couldn't compete in combat with people like Lucifer, Kikai, Moss and hell, most anyone when I started playing. There were no vehicles, no cyberware, the only coded systems for making money were SHI and Bruce and Enforcers caused TBs when fired. That didn't stop me from playing and inconveniencing older players.

Player 'competition' isn't always about combat. In fact, most of the time it shouldn't be. You can mess people's shit up without swinging a fist or firing a round. What's slowing down SD right now and is keeping it from accruing a playerbase is the same thing that kills a pen and paper game.

As for how much you play, whatever. I'm not telling you how much to play. I'm telling you to not die a slow, painful, miserable and possibly Wilford Brimleyesque death. You want to, then be my guest.

I've played this game for three years and every time I've gotten someone else do to my killing for me.

This is not a matter of me not knowing how to get shit done without UE.

It's a matter of players not being around to exploit as resources for this kind of RP.

I just think that players who play the game more should be rewarded as such, plain and simple.

Also, I don't blame the state of the game on the GMs entirely, FS does all he can for us when he's online and I think he's doing a great job.

I may not agree with Grizzly and what he does most of the time but I still appreciate his time and effort from Afghanistan.

Rastus is Rastus but he's had some damn good ideas lately.

We may be missing large, complex plots but maybe the GMs aren't doing those because players don't stick around to see them through?

There were several big plots that fell through in the last year because of activity or failure to complete things by players.

I don't think there is a single person who plays this game more than I do, and I am saying what would make me feel like i'm actually doing something productive with my character ICly.

And UE is the proper reward for that, and UE as a reward is also pretty Ic if you ask me.

(Edited by DigitalTyranny at 5:06 pm on Feb. 16, 2011)

Then you get someone else to kill Seven Ecks for you.

No active player is that tough. Not you. Not anybody.

That's the problem.

I just don't think PC's were designed to survive this long.

I support a mass PC/ALT jump from the HOJ. Let's all start at the stoneage.

I would be in favor of this. More people would be out there trying to RP and develop new connections and fight back to the top again.

Too bad you're being sarcastic -.-

Anyway.


Before Johnny went back to work and stopped gracing us with his presence he developed a list of items to complete before Sindome goes final and moves out of BETA.

The final step of this move was to reset everyone to 0, allowing established characters to keep their identity and possibly some connections due to established RP.

But it'd be an even playing field again, which I think was the best aspect of moving out of beta!

(Edited by DigitalTyranny at 1:07 pm on Feb. 17, 2011)

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Excellent, we agree on something for a change.

Doesn't anyone else think their be a huge spike in RP and interaction if everyone had to restart and build new connections and relationships with the new player base and letting go of how you got to where you are with the old player base?

I'm on a new character now and I'm already having more fun than I was last week.

I'd be down for a mass reboot. Lord help me though, I don't think I'd wanna be my old character.

There's a pretty defined line in the sand as to what skills are profitable and what skills aren't. Alot of this is a reflection of how many active players we have though. However, decking remains a sore thumb for me. I just wish being a decker was feasible without alot of GM intervention.

Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 4:45 pm on Feb. 16, 2011[br]Rastus is Rastus but...

Wut? Feel free to elaborate. :-)

I really, really, REALLY wanted to ignore this thread, but hell, some bullet point thoughts:

Players complain that alpha player is too powerful, game needs to be reset, waah, waah, waah. This happened before any of you guys played, it happens in most games. It happens in pen & paper RPGs, it happens in modern MMOs. Just because you're not an alpha player doesn't mean the game needs to be reset/rebalanced, it just means you're shit at it. ;-)

SD's stat/skill checking system is vicious and extremely intolerant of weakness. UE isn't the cause of balance problems, a reset would only rebalance things in the very short term. If you wanted the game to be "fairer", the core stat/skill system would need to be completely changed. (This isn't going to happen.) I patched in the critical hit/miss system and postures to make it less brutal in combat, trust me, things used to be far worse. These days a weaker player can have some chance in combat, as originally intended the stat/skill system would mean a slightly weaker player would miss every attack they made and be hit by every attack made on them... combat, as it was intended to be, really sucks.

There's several chars who have substantially more UE invested than Seven Ecks. Just because you can't kill him, doesn't mean others couldn't. Playing smart counts for far more than UE, there's been a couple of notable players who've laid waste to oldbies and wreaked havoc in general within months of leaving chargen. (Playing smart also includes not perming yourself every few months in a fit of pique and going on to become a UE-gorged oldbie :-)).

Oldbies are balls deep in the UE curve and it slows them down MASSIVELY. There's chars who take 30-40 times the UE to advance one point, they argue the curve is too steep because it lets middlbies gain ground on them far too quickly.

This level playing field you speak of wouldn't generate more RP, you want to believe it's some kind of magic bullet that would "fix" everything. It isn't. It wouldn't.

SD history tends to suggest when players are fairly evenly matched they RP less and try to kill each other more. When all else is equal, cold hard game mechanics are your edge and players will use them to win rather than being a sitting duck while they RP.

The IC logistics of a blank slate are horrific. Reset stats, keep chars, everything gets wonky. Over-night the whole power structure of the world changes, Judges auto-lose combat to lone NPC gangers, bad-asses have to flee the slightest threat, the whole IC world just becomes one epic failure. Over 10 years of RP, inter-twining stories, NPC's and factions developed around characters past and present. Twisted. Explain it? Mass hysteria? Or just pretend it never existed? Neither works.

The admin logistics of a reset are just as horrific. It's not just a case of perming everyones characters and getting on with it. You think admin don't do enough for you now? Imagine what it'd be like when every item in the game needs to be collected up, checked, reset to default if necessary and fed back into the economy. Imagine everyone wanting histories checked, xhelps answering and NPCs puppeting, wanting little tweaks to the game to set themselves up, job applications, new roles, creating gear, describing homes... Sure, it's not like we have hundreds of players but most of our time is already spent doing this day in, day out with a minimal trickle of newbies and new chars.

Ultimately, if Johnny said there'll be a reset when a list of things are completed and the game comes out of beta, then it'll happen the day the list is finished, the game comes out of beta and Johnny hits the reset.

And while I'm on, quit griping about how shit GM's are and how little we do for the game behind our backs then telling us how much you appreciate what we do to our faces. When we're on, we do shit, most of it happens to be trivial: answering xhelps, sorting shit out, reading notes, fixing or tweaking code and carrying out the general maintenance that needs doing. We'd rather be running events, RP and storylines if we had the time and manpower, it's sure as hell more fun than janitorial duties.

(Edited by Rastus2 at 7:58 pm on Feb. 17, 2011)

(Edited by Rastus2 at 8:03 pm on Feb. 17, 2011)

As epic as that post is... I feel like you totally missed the point.

And...

I've seen the list of top 5 chars according to UE spent, not sure what you saw when you meant "several"

Seven Ecks was a blanket example not a specific problem the guy doesnt even play anymore and when he's GMing he knows how strong Seven is so he takes him out of the loop, lol......

Im not bashing any GMs, i don't know why Murphy decided to bring that up.

Anyway this is now a moot discussion and you successfully killed it.

Alls I wanted was more UE because I play more so I can compete with jackasses in the best armor and weapons and cyberware the game has to offer after they perm me.

Who the fuck keeps showing you all of these magical things you think you know, DigitalTyrant?

And after reading Rastus' post, I take back what I said. He makes a good fucking point.

my character, like the other outrageous UE whore/guys you want to beat up but cant/whatever you're calling it becuase you want more UE for yourself/ is no longer a real PC in the sense. He is a tool to further things. Not once in recent events has he played a major role, went around killing people himself, or used any mystical powers of ue doom.

Most of the oldbies are in the same boat. Tools to further plots. Tools to give players jobs. Tools for the toolbag. I get it, you have a friend who is a gm/admin/whatever. He shows you things YOU DO NOT NEED TO SEE. He should probably stop doing that, but whatevers.

You know what, sure, let's reset.

However:

As most people who post on this board would know, my character is one of the few active olbie characters that is not associated with admin in any form, however:

I'm far more resistant to kill someone now, then I ever was before. If I can avoid killing you, and it won't result in me getting raped en-masse I'll do it.

Hell, I did something which would probably be considered Un-IC to try and save a character the other day, which I wouldn't have done five years ago.

It costs me an absolute crapload of UE to boost my skills now, and you also need to take the following into account:

Any current, active olbie, has probably had a significant break from the game, I've personally probably had 4-5 years off of the game over the last 11 years that my character has been around, if not significantly more, and I also have lost more fights then I've won over that time. Hell, if Moss came back now, he'd still be considered an oldbie, and he probably hasn't played in 4 maybe 5 years?

Someone here pointed out they've paid a significant sum to support the game. Good for you, I've thrown $100 on the game myself, and I'd still have done so if the option was available to donate without receiving any perks. Donations don't give you any right to a better result in game, only slight game advantages.

Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 2:19 am on Feb. 18, 2011[br]
Im not bashing any GMs, i don't know why Murphy decided to bring that up.

Please quote where I mentioned GMs. Anyone scrolling up can see that you brought them up, not me.


Take a look:

Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 7:45 pm on Feb. 16, 2011[br]
Also, I don't blame the state of the game on the GMs entirely, FS does all he can for us when he's online and I think he's doing a great job.

So stop putting words in people's mouths. It's pointless on the internet, especially on a forum where the entire conversation history is there for anyone to peruse.


Also:

Quote: from Rastus2 on 10:39 pm on Feb. 17, 2011[br]
Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 4:45 pm on Feb. 16, 2011[br]Rastus is Rastus but...

Wut? Feel free to elaborate. :-)

He looks like a cow...

Quote: from Murphy on 4:15 pm on Feb. 16, 2011[br]What's slowing down SD right now and is keeping it from accruing a playerbase is the same thing that kills a pen and paper game.

I'm sorry Murphy but in 2011 in my part of the world the only thing that kills a pen and paper game is a lousy
DM...  I translated your comment to fit SD and that's how I came to the conclusion you're blaming the GMs. My bad if you meant otherwise.

Someone here pointed out they've paid a significant sum to support the game. Good for you, I've thrown $100 on the game myself, and I'd still have done so if the option was available to donate without receiving any perks. Donations don't give you any right to a better result in game, only slight game advantages.

This was in response to Murphy trying to tell me I play too much, and me answering back with I donate, I'll play however much I want.

Nothing to do with suggestting donations should equal more UE.

Please try to read the posts if you're going to comment.

Quote: from Biohazard on 12:08 am on Feb. 18, 2011[br]Who the fuck keeps showing you all of these magical things you think you know, DigitalTyrant?

I saw a good amount of things before they've been introduced to the Game within the last 3 years, there was once a time where my opinion was respected by a GM or two and wanted input. Don't get mad, I don't get shown things like this anymore so you can keep your special feelings of exclusivity going into 2011.

Yes, your opinion is asked for and sought out, especially sinced you've been banned how many times?

Thought so.


And you just admitted your information is not current. You can silencio yourself and stop acting like you know what's going on admin-side now. K thnx.

Quote: from Biohazard on 7:19 am on Feb. 18, 2011[br]Yes, your opinion is asked for and sought out, especially sinced you've been banned how many times?

Thought so.


And you just admitted your information is not current. You can silencio yourself and stop acting like you know what's going on admin-side now. K thnx.

Shit doesn't change much and I prefer to get corrected as I go so I know things have changed or progressed. You should probably stop getting offended by me knowing anything.

It's not hard to find out whats going on admin-side, you simply have to ask the right person. But I don't do that anymore cause FS would be mad.

I am offended by you.


This thread is deader then disco.

I only posted this because FS asked me to do so, stop shitting in my wheaties!

Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 10:09 am on Feb. 18, 2011[br]
Quote: from Murphy on 4:15 pm on Feb. 16, 2011[br]What's slowing down SD right now and is keeping it from accruing a playerbase is the same thing that kills a pen and paper game.

I'm sorry Murphy but in 2011 in my part of the world the only thing that kills a pen and paper game is a lousy
DM... �I translated your comment to fit SD and that's how I came to the conclusion you're blaming the GMs. My bad if you meant otherwise.


In my part of the world there's more than one thing that can kill a campaign, but they all have the same root. I will not reveal this immediately because I am an asshole and want to make you read the rest of the post.

Players (hell, humans in general) need a goal. Short term, long term, it doesn't matter. New players don't know what's possible so they can't form goals. Since it's a game and they're new to it, survival can't be a driving force unless death is an immediate threat - while they're logged in. If they log off and don't intend to log in again, they don't care what happens to their characters.

So, when I would GM CP2020 games, I would keep players on their toes. I would give them big toys for the express purpose of using them to motivate them by threatening the shiny toy. I would have the more interesting poser gangs harass certain players in the group. Six Marylin Monroes with razor-sharp claws tend to keep things moving along. Or Wilford Brimleys. Never tried that one.

Unlike a pen and paper game, however, events aren't uniquely GM-driven. Players can serve to motivate other players just as well as GMs.

The problem is, there's a shortage of both. The shortage of either one produces a shortage of the other.

What's killing SD, and ultimately kills any pen and paper game is a lack of interest.

Also, a "lousy DM" goes without saying - DMs only exist in D&D which is a lousy game. :P

Since this topic has gone so far off track, I'm closing it.