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Releasing of some player side info.
There is stuff we just should know.

Okay so we talked about this in game, then everyone's panties got in a bind and I was told to talk about it here.

Right now the HT system is horrible in my opinion. I understand from conversation with the snake guy that it was because some of the idiots in the game past were abusing their wounded status or some shit, so since some people couldn't play right we are left with what we have now.

There are no helpfiles to tell you what the levels of wounding are or how long they take to heal, or even what speeds up healing, drugs, treatment etc.

I think this should be fixed, because if you take how it's presented to us now, we are all idiots and can't tell if we are suffering from a minor wound or a massive one. We can't do basic first aid even to stop bleeding or the like. And a person with all the medical skill in the world is useless without some type of coded item.

How do you think this could be improved?

I'm happy to have a conversation about possible ways this system could be improved. What were your thoughts as to how it could be changed to better suit your ideal?

Well first of all, I would like to see the game update you when you're feeling better, both in fatigue and ht status. As it is now for fatigue, it will tell you every action you make that lowers your fatigue, but never tells you when you're rested, you have to just keep checking ht over and over to see when you're "full up."

I think it would be fair to have some sort of set descriptors to tell how badly you're hurt instead of just randoms and ones that power-emote how I feel about my wounds to both myself and anyone who looks at me.

Something like (Being basic to just get the idea across)

You are hardly hurt

You are starting to hurt pretty bad.

You are beat up pretty good.

You about to pass out from injuries.

You are on literally about to die.

I feel like assessing your own medical condition should definitely be really inaccurate, and probably influenced by your endurance and perception, as well as any medical skill. We, as players should probably have the option to be a hypochondriac and assess everything as worse than it actually is.

This is all assuming anything changes with how we assess our damage.

Something that we should be able to easily see, though, is how much pain we're perceiving, possibly on a numeric scale of nothing to overload, maybe with numbers able to go above, for those times when we're getting kicked in the nuts while suffering appendicitis with a hot fire poker in our spleen. The key term here, is, of course, perceiving. Even if our arm has been lopped off, if we're on some stupidly strong pain killers, that should still be a 1 or a 2.

Also since your health is one of the most important factors to your character, at least if you don't want to die, why is there not a reference anywhere of common street drugs, what they do, how they work etc?

It's all fine and good to have all the really detailed data be available to cyberdocs and drug dealers in their green houses and clinics, but I don't need to be a medical professional to know that advil eases my paints and motrin is an anti-inflammatory.

The main problem in my eyes is you guys want EVERYTHING to be found out in character, but you don't have the proper tools in place to find that out. You can ask a player, but half the time the info you get from players is wrong or simple assumption.

Why isn't there a gridpage with this info? That's ic, but available.

I don't think adding fatigue recovery would really add to RP at all. In fact I think I would find it most distracting because I'd basically be constantly seeing it.

The how hurt descriptions are hardly random, and entirely proportionate to your health, and very descriptive. In addition to telling you how hurt you are, they also inform you of how much pain your in, what kind of damage you've taken and how much of it specifically, how thirsty you are, how tired you are, and how fast you're recovering from being tired. All of these messages scale from 'you're a little bit' to 'you're very' to 'oh shit, better do something'.

Typing 'search' into the search box produced this:

https://www.sindome.org/wiki/index.php/Drugs_in_Withmore

I mean drugs.

And here's that link clickable https://www.sindome.org/wiki/index.php/Drugs_in_Withmore

https://www.sindome.org/wiki/index.php/Drugs_in_Withmore

Was that found in the grid? or the webpage? If it's in the grid, then I would say it just needs to be made more accessible and I'd be cool with it.

But no, the HT does not do a good job in my opinion of showing you how hurt you are, and the whole You feel this and that, is horrible.

So, there was one thing that the OP did mention that does have merit:

Right now there's multiple ways to stop the bleeding (don't believe OP), but no way to cap your hand over the wound and slow the bleeding, or take off your shirt and hold in on the wound of someone to slow the bleeding.

Right now it seems like it might not be needed because bleeding seems to be fairly slow as it is, so I expect it's gonna be pretty low priority when compared to all the other things that could be improved, like the limb system.

Anyone else want to chop someone's pinky finger off more than they want to slow the bleeding?

Yes, we got that you don't know how to use it.

It's worked fine for me, and for the past 15 years or however long it's been that way. I'm not seeing anything in your suggestions that would improve it.

I prefer the current descriptors a lot more than your suggestions, that's the thing about opinions I guess.

The Drug information is right here on the webpage. It's easily accessible for everybody.

I'm talking clearly from my perspective on myself. I should have a general idea how beat up I am.

I think the current descriptions should be for doctors and medically trained personnel to see.

I think it's too specific but not useful in it's current state, it's great for a medical professional diagnosis, but I as the person in reference should see a more simplified and easier to decipher general phrase.

The health system (HT) does display basic and more detailed health stats. You just need to read it fully.

It goes blah blah lacerations, bullet holes, blah blah and is barely clinging to life.

See the end?

Okay, I'm just going post by post here (so please bear with me, thx). Maybe this will help you better understand it from an ooc viewpoint?

Jago wrote:

We can't do basic first aid even to stop bleeding or the like. And a person with all the medical skill in the world is useless without some type of coded item.

You can stop bleeding. Examine the medkits. Like in RL, you don't have to be a paramedic to use a first aid kit to tamp down the bleeding wound you have. Although more serious wounds do need a doctor of sorts.

As for being useless without a coded item, I do kinda agree with this. Someone trained in medicine should be able to make a makeshift tourniquet to stop the bleeding long enough to get to a doctor without dying.

Idea: Instead of a permanent stopping to the bleeding you are experiencing, maybe a tourniquet can be a temporary stop?

- -

Jago wrote:

Well first of all, I would like to see the game update you when you're feeling better, both in fatigue and ht status. As it is now for fatigue, it will tell you every action you make that lowers your fatigue, but never tells you when you're rested, you have to just keep checking ht over and over to see when you're "full up"

I'm sorry but it does. It's not like a gas guage, true, but I like that it isn't. In real life you don't have a gas guage-like health meter. But, that said, there are indicators that show you when you are well rested and recovering however. Or that you are a little tired and recovering normally. Or little tired and recovering slowly.

If you experiment, then you can figure out what you do to become tired and what you can do (eat, rest, etc) to become less tired. Just like in Real Life, when you go to work out, what would you do? What would the difference be in working out on a full stomach opposed to an empty stomach? When you think about RL, then it seems to easily translate to the game.

Also, as Jinx wrote, you do see the injuries displayed. You do see how beat up or wounded you are. (I personally forget to look sometimes in the middle of whatever's happening. )

TwistedAkai wrote:

Something that we should be able to easily see, though, is how much pain we're perceiving, possibly on a numeric scale of nothing to overload, maybe with numbers able to go above,

I know endorphines and adrenaline would diminish this at least at first, but I do like this. There was one time, early on, sparring, and got hit. Fun times. But I was politely reminded of the condition I was in and then I RP'd appropriately.

I admit that though I have a hang of this better now, when I was newer and then when I was starting to figure out a touch of combat with help, it was a little confusing and had to figure it out.

Jago wrote on drugs:

Also since your health is one of the most important factors to your character, at least if you don't want to die, why is there not a reference anywhere of common street drugs, what they do, how they work etc?

Why isn't there a gridpage with this info? That's ic, but available

There is. :) I see others have giving you one of the links.

There's general knowledge that is available to the public which is on the Sindome site's wiki. Anything there is data that's easy to find out or maybe something your character would already know.

Just do a search on the site for Drugs. :) (You can also do this for Weapons, Armor, Corporations, Councils, Withmore Laws, and many other things [no vehilcles yet]. This is data you can easily find on the Grid or asking Immy [the hologram] so to speak.)

Here's another link: http://www.sindome.org/about/drugs/

--

Now,a general train of thought of something I noticed and I've been in the position where I had to learn about this so I just want to put this down since this thread is on Health:

If your character is injured, it's not something easily slept off if you are near death. Unless you have in game a special cybernetic treatment, you better get your ass to a doctor. I've been in this RP position before so I know what's happening but, to me, it's meta to "Sleep it Off" since you are Near Death. Your character's body is dying. Have some aid assisted to you at least. If you want to sleep it off without aid, just know what you're risking.

Admin here.

The LORE section of the website IS IC.

No, it LITERALLY is IC.

What you MIGHT not know is that this material is available from the know-it-all holograms. If you read info in Lore pages, you can either just have your character know it as if they absorbed it ambiently as common knowledge (this is what the blue box on the top of every Lore page says), OR, if they HAVE to explain where they got the knowledge, they can roleplay it as if they did ask a hologram. Hell, if you want to be "orthodox" about it, ASK the hologram.

Also:

Just because you haven't seen this material on the IC grid doesn't mean it isn't there.

thecraftydragon has an excellent point.

I would not mind seeing healing rates being scaled out to account for severity, so small wounds heal quickly, but getting the shit beat out of you considerably slowed your healing rate. That would certainly make getting near death a much more consequential and make seeing a doctor in such situations much more imperative, since right now you more or less CAN just 'sleep it off'.

All of that does happen, Mojo.

Getting hurt affects how far away you are from perfect health (how much you have to heal), as well as how fast you can heal (the healing rate.)

@ShinMojo

My little bit was that some players who are dying and don't see a doctor & just seem to sleep it off instead of RPing that they are near dying and doing something about it. And maybe they think they won't die which may not be true. When I am seriously injured in RL, I go see a doctor. Near death? I hope someone takes me to a hospital. (Keep in mind, this was for those that don't have certain cybernetic treatments which you can find out about in game that help. This is mainly for those that may not have that nifty shit.) :)

But as for scale rate on how injured and / or fatigued you are, the scale rate is there as Linekin pointed out. Just not a gas gauge meter-like health bar. (I hope I understood you Mojo.) :)

You did. :) And I'm with you on all of it. Big fan here.

Believe me, I don't think anything would be gained by having a health bar meter. I'm still of the mind that the healing rate could be slower though.

Hmm, you know, Mojo, the way I understand the healing rate is that it's not that you're now fully healed and no longer injured whatsoever, it's that whatever you're experiencing at that time isn't there. For example, bruises don't heal in hours. (They become reddish blue, purpley blue, maybe even dark purple depending on the severity. And then they start to heal and become lighter purple-blue, then purple-green, greenish [maybe with some blue still in the middle], green with yellow. yellowish and then the you're back to normal.) But the pain of the bruise may not be there the next day. if that makes sense? But that's my view on it.

But, we can't really go into possible mechanics and so I'll leave it at that. :)