Planned Upgrade to the Markets
What I've been planning for a few weeks now

As the markets have been functional, we haven't given them any code loving in quite a while. We've implemented 2 more markets since the code was originally written and they all pull from the same pool of objects.

Heres the plan, basically:

1. Add support on $things so their value can vary according to their logic. This would make it possible for self-depleting items to lower their worth as they get empty. This is NOT just for the market, but prices of things overall.
   
2. Modify markets so they can favor certain classes of $things, meaning you'd make more selling certain items to certain markets and in turn, they would cost more there too.
   
3. Modify markets so they remember what objects are at what market and more intelligently move things between markets. We don't want to get rid of the fact that you can sell something at market A and then the object moves to market B where someone can buy it, but we need to be smarter about it.
   

I encourage one of the GMs to link to this from the other topic so the players can easily relate the two threads.

Not like it matters, though.  ;P

It creates a IC purpose for a character with charisma + trading. He'll buy your goods off you and sell them...either to other people or the markets.

Its all about creating opportunities for players, right?

ALSO, most notably to cryer...market price isn't always street price. I have items that inspect for 1/5th of their value that I could sell them to another player.

In this dog eat dog world, some things are impossible to sell...wjf equipment for example...used dildo's...lit cigs...etc.

Oh wait, there is!

Not to mention now stores buy back certain items, and npcs will pay you to bring them stuff.  There are more and more outlets in the game for getting rid of gear.  Markets should be more for when you really want to get rid of something fast or just have so much crap you don't need.

And as Ref said, the markets are tuned to give a purpose to those with trade skills. You want to dump your shit, dump it on someone who can sell it off. Thats the point, after all, to give you a reason to trade with other players instead of the market directly.

The one thing the market absolutely shouldn't do is impact on player to player trade.

This premium that would occur from setting the base market price at the mean of the store prices seems fair to me.

I'm fairly sure items still have a fixed value. Market values are based off this fixed value, not store values which are (were?) set as a percentage mark-up on a store by store basis. That might have changed, but I've never seen any indication of it.

Personally I'd argue that the market simply isn't there to be "played", it's a lowest common denominator option. That was the original reason for the extremely steep valuations, you're not supposed to turn a profit there.

Selling was a sink for trash items that have no player resale value, it was intended to suck junk out of the game, give the player a slight cash reward and deposit in a store where admin could sort out the useful items and recycle the trash.

Beyond this I think I stand to lose my case. Sindome has changed significantly, I'm sure people will protest, but quite simply it has. Back then the game was far more about RP and less about playing the mechanics, these days there is a definite shift to the latter so I fully expect people want to play the numbers and rack up "points", so the market is expected to reward players for juggling items, boosting skills, etc. The market isn't "useless", it works entirely as intended, rather the players expectations of it have changed.

Ultimately it's nothing to do with me, I'm just musing about it and suggesting it'd be a bad thing if it were changed so that players used it to turn a profit. Dump your trash, take your bounty for cleaning up the game and get the player to player trade in valuable items going instead.

Also the whole idea that a merchant isn't interested in your gear seems ridiculous.

It's a game mechanic, so unfortunately reality isn't always the highest concern. If you fall below the minimum threshold for a skill check you get no reward. From an IC perspective, if you simply have no interpersonal skills (low CHR) and no experience in bartering the trader will simply refuse to deal with you. Essentially you go in acting like a complete cunt, shouting, threatening, demanding unrealistic prices immediately and refusing to budge... and get told to take a hike. There's a difference between getting stung because you're a bad haggler (poor skill check) and being totally impossible to deal with (failed skill check).

Hopefully some of that is useful, helpful or worth discussing further. If not, I guess I'm just being a twat. :)

(Edited by Rastus2 at 5:54 pm on Mar. 12, 2009)

I'd also argue, high risk == high rewards and low life expectancy, low risk == low rewards and higher life expectancy.

And again, a shift in the game from RP to mechanics. I'm not suggesting there's no RP, but rather people are concerned about choosing the most rewarding stats and playing the numbers.

Back in the day there were very few heavy combat chars and lots of people with UE piled into skills that had absolutely no coded use in the game at all.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 6:18 pm on Mar. 12, 2009[br]I can haz rp?

You don't need ruthless combat skills to be a good biznessman but you don't need trading or chrisma either. You just have to rock biz with players.

Perhaps there should be specific places/shop that only admit a scarce amount of people based on charisma/trading/chy? A place where those skilled enough could acquire rare items?

Would that balance things out?

(Edited by ReeferMadness at 9:22 pm on Mar. 12, 2009)

I think it would possibly help, yes. It has the potential. Something that allows folks focusing on the social interaction side of the game to be a real fixer... a place to go and look for things that players want and a place where these fixer types have an advantage over the regular joe to sell things that they get off other players. Without having to necessarily bother a GM to get/get rid of a particular item.

I'd suggest the ability to haggle with regular store vendors for a slight discount, nothing amazing but enough to make a difference. Maybe under-the-counter items only visible to players with the right skills/CHR.

Hrm... ability to beg for mercy when attacked by NPC's... might make for an interesting charisma use and an alternative to flee. Or maybe just have NPC's switch @fatal based on a CHR check on the target (with conditional modifiers).

Time, time, time. There's no shortage of ideas.

(Edited by Rastus2 at 6:38 pm on Mar. 12, 2009)

The markets do work this way. If you're selling something, they offer you a crappy price. You haggle with them to get something better. Whether you have great skills or not, you're not going to get full value for your item. Trash is not accepted at the markets.

People with the skills have and do use the markets. They have been tested. Nobody is going to make a profit from the markets, unless it is gear they got for free or for a small amount of money. Reason for this? Abuse.

Also, I laugh heartily at the minigun thing.

(Edited by darKPete at 4:50 am on June 24, 2009)

Also, we have taken advantage of some code that was in place to make each market offer slightly different rates for the two classes of items (legal / illegal).  So certain markets are cheaper then others for some things, and more expensive for others.