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SIC Trace
Suckaaaa

There have been objects in game for awhile now that could tell you the SIC ID of an alias and track that alias to a specific level of Withmore.

That has changed.  Now, they do just that, but also, after an additional triangulation time, they will tell you the more localized area that the person is near.

This presupposed the person has not moved during triangulation which can take a little while.

It will not say The person is Westinhaus Room 204, or the person is the the Drome - Restroom, instead it uses the same system that Taxi's use when you ask them to take you somewhere.  So if you are somewhere near the Drome, it may say you are near the Drome.  If you are outside the Bank it may say you are outside the bank, if you are inside the Cordoba Mall Plex it will say you are near the Mallplex, etc, etc.  Not specific, but certainly better then just a level.  

Keep in mind Triangulation will not work if the Target is moving!  Or if they lose SIC, or a variety of other factors.

If you don't want to be traced to your home, or the general area of your home, I suggest a SIC Amp with a Deamplifier Chip installed so you can block the SIC :)

I have one concern over this change. What about blackouts? I get that if the person is in one it would block the trace. But they are all over and in random areas. Wouldn't that in itself impede the quality of triangulation enough so that an accurate as that location be quite difficult to obtain for someone on RED?

If the person is moving there is no triangulation possible.  If they don't have SIC there is no triangulation possible.  It's only possible for stationary aliases.

Rav's right really, there should be a good case for this not working on RED at all. Triangulation would require you to be connected to at least three nodes. Given how often RED locations have zero coverage, the odds of having three good signals to triangulate are pretty damn slim.

As much as I hate Ravonic I have to agree also.
It should first check how bad the deadzones are (there are times when there's like no deadzone) first and if it's less than x% of Red then it should work.

You guys don't think that makes it pretty much useless?  We need to balance game mechanics and usability.. and also take into account player dispersal.  Most everyone that is going to be 'traced' is going to be on RED.

Second, perhaps triangulation isn't the word.  This is 2097.  We have human cloning.  I am pretty sure the SIC is basically a GPS, pushing it's location to the server at every turn.  That would make fiscal sense as it would be able to push custom tailored ads, based on location.  So, it is perfectly feasible that (even by todays standards, where a cell phone is basically a beacon if it's got a battery in it) Big Brother knows exactly where you are, no matter what, and can, based on your previous movements, project a path you would take even if you enter a deadzone..

What you just explained is triangulation, and takes multiple clear responses to pinpoint your location. Governing how that decision has came to be is how long it takes the 'ping' to get back to the signal source. From all three pings comes an estimate of your location. With fault signal due to blackouts, the pings would have random delays. So a person could be traced with some accuracy on RED, it wouldn't be by very much.

GPS and Phone tracking use the same system we are talking about on the SIC and you just mentioned in your post.

I wouldn't say it makes it any more useless than SIC deadzones make SIC useless. It makes it a game mechanic with reasonable and exploitable limitations.

GPS actually requires a minimum of 4 clean satellite signals before it can calculate your location. Fair enough, we do have some scientifically implausible tech in game, but for large scale positioning you can't get round the fact that 3+ points of reference are needed.

Don't get me wrong, it makes total sense that the SIC can be used in this way and has location based advertising but location functionality would be significantly more vulnerable to deadzones than basic chat.

(Not to be picky, but initially you said SIC triangulation doesn't work if you're moving and takes time to triangulate - then in your last post said that it can project a path based on previous movements even while you're in a deadzone :P TBH, if you're comparing it to current GPS technology, it should have no problem at all tracking a moving target, triangulate pretty much immediately and be accurate to within a few feet if the signals are good)

You're talking science...why bother? This is Cyberpunk...I mean if you really want a legit reason why it will work...how about sic acts as a GPS logging longitude and latitude that therein communicates via a zigbee mesh across other sic chips until reaching the necessary "satellite"? I mean, it's feasible under numerous protocols which exist in todays world. Is it really necessary that it makes perfect sense to any of you?

The end-all be-all is that we need deckers to be useful. They're useless in-game...and it's cyberpunk tragedy. They should be able to actually effect things besides painting ascii art on sic nodes because no one even remembers how to use the img tag. Hacking an e-note, using misc. security gear, we need scary, all-seeing, power deckers out there but instead it's all muscle boyo's with guns.

There have been a handful of legitimate deckers in-game and most of them have either gotten permed because they lacked muscle or turned into combat whores themselves. The system not only doesn't work but it's non-existent. Why argue over semantics when Slither is trying to provide an avenue for skill use? Type help skills and tell me which ones lack legitimate use...they're decker skills. Maybe the triangulation device doesn't take advantage of skills yet but it's a pivotal step in the right direction. For fucks sake, let the technology prevail.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 11:42 pm on Sep. 6, 2012[br]

You're talking science...why bother? This is Cyberpunk...

I would have laughed if I thought this were a joke. All the best fiction has considerable amounts of research behind it. Frank Herbert read about ecology for years before writing Dune. William Gibson researched computer technology, various cultures and languages for his novels. And do we even need to start on the amount of research that went into Stephenson's Snow Crash? This is the sort of quality we should be targeting.

You don't create memorable experiences by aspiring to mediocrity.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 11:42 pm on Sep. 6, 2012[br]I mean if you really want a legit reason why it will work...how about sic acts as a GPS logging longitude and latitude that therein communicates via a zigbee mesh across other sic chips until reaching the necessary "satellite"? I mean, it's feasible under numerous protocols which exist in todays world.

Do these protocols work when you're under millions of tonnes of steel, concrete and glass?

That said, look at how the SIC network functions. Certain areas have clear signal, others have brownout patches and it doesn't work in specially shielded rooms. Additionally, you can use an amplifier to increase signal availability. This sounds a lot more like a GPRS/UTMS style network than any satellite based network.


Quote: from ReeferMadness on 11:42 pm on Sep. 6, 2012[br]

Is it really necessary that it makes perfect sense to any of you?

Yes, actually. I can't even begin to count the number of @notes I've read where previous GMs have had to come up with willy nilly explanations for shit on the spot that made zero fucking sense due to inadequate preparation. Creating the necessary, grounded fiction behind technology, NPCs and events creates an infinite amount of plot hooks and "paydata" for players to discover, trade and sell.

I can say that every plot I've ever run and every NPC I've ever created has a wealth of researched background written on it which players could find out if they made the effort. I've even taken the time to explain the science behind a number of pieces of equipment found in game, because I wish more for Sindome than a half-assed "because it's cool" mentality.


Quote: from ReeferMadness on 11:42 pm on Sep. 6, 2012[br]

The end-all be-all is that we need deckers to be useful. They're useless in-game...and it's cyberpunk tragedy. They should be able to actually effect things besides painting ascii art on sic nodes because no one even remembers how to use the img tag. Hacking an e-note, using misc. security gear, we need scary, all-seeing, power deckers out there but instead it's all muscle boyo's with guns.


This is already being worked on in a different and actually very innovative manner. I'm not really at liberty to say more, but hackers in game will shit a brick when it goes live. Prepare your anus.

Also fuck quote tags.

Meh, I can type much better than Slither when drunk...

Anyway, let's try this again without all your silly quote rebuttal nonsense.

Regarding the "Why Bother with Science" - I mean trying to actually have it make sense using modern science seems silly. Having it operate under possible future-tech theories seems perfectly legitimate though. I apologize for seeming so obtuse.

Those protocols actually do work under millions of tons of steel, concrete, and glass. Zigbee is implemented in numerous high-rises for that exact reason. When I referred to the "satellite" - I used it in quotes because I didn't mean an actual satellite. I mean the "home run" antenna that links the signal back up to network.

It making perfect sense seems silly. It's a concept that you should be able to roughly understand. Realism is overkill sometimes and if we abided realism alot more would be possible in the game, methinks.

Needless to say, I'm very psyched about the ability for deckers to do stuff.

So, you want science and proof? Okay...here's a concept on how SIC works w/ Tracking.

SIC communicates via a zigbee mesh back to stationary "amplifiers". These amplifiers are scattered throughout the dome. Due to power surges, hackers, giant rats gnawwing on cables...the amplifiers fluctuate frequently on RED creating a sort of rolling blackout in large areas that even the mesh cannot communicate around.

Each sic chip reports a longtitude and latitude when "pinged" by the network. This can be tracked provided there is signal. No triangulation necessary.

Happy?

And my point remains, how exactly can it do that... but fail to track a moving target and take time to "triangulate"?

If it's so unreliable that the above two apply, then it WOULD fail on red.

If the cmap feature works - why shouldn't tracking? Also, why does the device need to use triangulation...outside of its name...?

Because broadcasting it's location is it asking to be triangulated, just like the sic map does when it pulls down a map. It is true that it does it often, but when there is a blackout near you, even if you aren't in it, both the map and the sic tracing should be funky.

And none of this has anything to do with decker, their ability to spoof, track, or erase where people are has nothing to do with how triangulation works. That's just altering data between the location it is acquired and the location it is being requested.

So it should only effect the trace if one of the three "towers" in-place are part of the blackout, correct? If there are three "towers" that aren't park of the blackout - you would be fine, correct?

So, a method of simulating that difficulty or effect is needed. This doesn't sound impossible.

Actually, as a decker, as long as you have signal, and have access to whatever data pathway or server the request for sic tracing is coming from, your ability to manipulate it would have nothing to do with the areas ability to triangulate because you are planting, or altering data on it's way to the requester of the trace.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 3:33 pm on Sep. 7, 2012[br]So it should only effect the trace if one of the three "towers" in-place are part of the blackout, correct? If there are three "towers" that aren't park of the blackout - you would be fine, correct?

So, a method of simulating that difficulty or effect is needed. This doesn't sound impossible.

It isn't at all impossible, there are already systems in place that generate values that could be used for that - and in fact this is exactly what was being discussed before you started ranting about hackers and about how science is lame. Except for Rastus who argued it shouldn't work at all, which is a very valid opinion in itself but sometimes nearly none of Red is blacked out in which case having it work is plausible.

That's me...drunk ruiner of constructive bgbb threads. :spank: