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Stat recalibration.
Discussion on stat wordification recalibration.

In the beginning there was a word...

But that nonesense isn't of any concern right now. "So, what is of concern, Rastus?", I hear you asking. That's what you're asking, isn't it? Hello? Bah...

Anyhows...

A long time ago, on a MOO pretty much the same as our own... a wise and powerful old Wizzen master by the name of Johnny took the force and reshaped it, altering a mystical power that shaped and bound the abilities all things. A part of the force known as... stats. Using ancient and mystical powers he reshaped this 'stats' force, creating a new and superior way of utilising it. Unfortunately, the worlds way of interpreting this force in a visual form remained unchanged, out of sync with the new way. This led to confusion amidst trainees and new travellers to the world, many of whom felt strangely powerless and disadvantaged in their new enviroment...

Feh, I can't be bothered with this anymore. I've recalibrated the stat wordification system, that being the system that converts your numerical stat data into the words you see when you type @stats. The old system was calibrated for a time when stats used a different system to calculate the totals, some of you may remember the time the stat system was changed and you stats 'appeared' to have dropped. We've added 11 new word levels to each stat and narrowed the point range between levels, subsequently lowering the level of 'average' to something attainable in chargen. If you type @stats your levels will now appear totally different to what they were previously, most, if not all, of you should find an apparently significant raise in your levels.

HOWEVER!!!

And this is the important bit. Even if you ignore the rest of this post entirely, read, comprehend and inwardly digest the next line.

YOUR NUMERICAL STATS HAVE NOT CHANGED IN ANY WAY.
The numbers that are stored on your character have not in ANY way been touched, just the way they are read and converted to words has been changed. Your ability to do anything has been TOTALLY UNAFFECTED. You are no better -OR- worse than you were in the eyes of the MOO code than you were prior to the change. The one and only effect of this change is the way the MOO displays the data to you. The new system will be far more chargen friendly and will also give you a better feeling of progress in your stats.

Any thoughts, questions or need to discuss. This is the forum to do it in.

Danke

so what your saying is that:

average is now lower than average used to be in terms of stat progression. But in terms of actual code, we still fight/rob/kill/search the same numerically. cool. nice.

now, if you could tell me the progression in charisma from attractive to provocative, that would be marvey.

Apologies for the gaff on skill levels. Some amatuer coder *cough* on our staff... *mutter* failed to realise that skills calibrate off the same code as stats and didn't flesh out the skill word list to accomodate the new spread...

For the moment I've patched it by duplicating the old skill words to create the required number of entries. Since the code now accomodates it, I'm working on a list of unique wordified skill levels...

Same rule applies to skills as did stats, the words may change, but the underlying code used statistics remain TOTALLY uneffected.

New skill levels have been applied. Some of your skills will now appear different on your @stats, underlying coded levels remain unchanged.

Is Average higher than Focused for pcp? Because I thought after the last change in the code regarding words and stats, the stats were supposed to appear -higher- and while the rest of mine did, my pcp went to Average from Focused .....

Focused used to be below average. I never liked this, since to me, focused implied a fairly positive meaning while every other below average statword was fairly negative sounding. So, in the recalibration I moved focused to just above average.

Okay, so that means my going up to Average was in tune with the rest of the change... no kidding, to me Focused sounds better than Average... ::shrug::

ok, now what about outstanding/excellent, I used to be outstanding at something, now I'm excellent.  I thought I used to be excellent, before I was outstanding , what happened there?

They lowered your stats because they don't like you.

Contrary to popular belief... most of us do hate you Astro... *snicker*

But anywho... yes, stats/skills were lowered by our mutual enemy. A one, Mr. Rastus (or as he repeatidly tells us...)Mr.  BITCH-FUCK-WHORE-CUNT.

Now, they changed the way the wording works. Now, instead of having skilled, poor, bad, and just plain crappy out of char-gen... you can have average, or maybe better. Up in the higher levels, they made it harder to get to outstanding (which I am assuming, though not totally, is the highest level.) I highly doubt they want us having one of the highest, if not the highest, word level when we hit a few boosts after it starts to curve upwards. If I read Rastus' post correctly, there are some 11 new levels for each stat/skill. You get to see some improvement now. After dropping 50 UE into Endurance, YES Dominik, you WERE advancing. We just couldn't tell because God-Rastus hadn't changed the wordings yet!!!

Anywho, I hope I have helped your lil situation there Astro. I know its hard for you to read and think at the... same... time... wait, you can read?

Luc, I dunno where your little hate on came from but lets just go over a few quick things since I don't feel like just browbeating your right now.

After you graduate highschool, and you figure out what that thing between your legs is for, after your skin clears up and you quite living in your parents basement, after you've read more then one book on the Lit. post under General Discussion, then you can sit down for a few hours and come up with some interesting little way to try and belittle me.  

Until those things all happen, go fuck yourself.

WOOOOOW, someone needsa lighten up... Astro, no one on these BB's is really serious. Its all fun dude, don't take it seriously. :P

<insert snide laughter here>

Heh, I wanna also point out I can type better then Astro. *CACKLES* Just jokin, but... seriously, if your going to give sarcastic remarks, expect them in return Astro. I really don't care how old you are, and i really don't care if you look at me because of my age. I will sit here, and others my age sit here, and stare you right in the face. Age doesn't apply to me, never has, never will. If your going to, fine, but don't expect me to bow down because your my senior.

Now, that out of the way, whens the party? Nic has the togas.... Gerik has the place... Now we need the people and the time... *Runs off dancing*

<insert snide comment and laughter here>

Hey ras can you post a list or something  like adept=outstanding, or just a list from lowest to highest, or the highest someone has abtained.   Cause my dodge just jumped from able to accomplished and I have absolutley no idea where it is at in relation to others like outstanding excell, great, a little help would be nice....

Somehow I doubt Ras will do this, based on his previous reactions, but I guess in this case I have to agree with him.  IRL do you know how much ass you can really kick at something, yes, but only if you try it out.

We're 'considering' wether or not to post a list of each stats levels or make it available through inMOO help... the question is will this effect the way the game developes? We wanted a system that gave people a vague idea of how good they are, what we don't want is players comparing stats and knowing exactly how they compare to each other. So far our checking system and the lack of stat level listing seems to have done a fairly good job of preventing people from playing the numbers...

For now it remains under discussion... we -may- put it down to a player poll.

The stat recalibration has been reapplied. Luckily I managed to salvage most of the hard work from admin forums where I'd posted my progress for discussion. Unfortunately, the new skill levels were patched into the MOO on the fly and no record of them existed, so I've had to reconstruct the list. What this means, basically, is that the stat levels should be unchanged but the skill levels could very well be totally different. I've had to trawl through my thesaurus again, write a list of usable words and sort them into something resembeling order. Since there's no 'correct' order for the words to be in, it's quite possible there may be slight differences. I was also unable to figure out the exact list of words I used the first time, so some words are completely different.

Also, the level change threshold for all stats at all levels have moved by 1 point. That's down to a mistake I made the first time that I didn't notice until recoding. So, if you were boarderline in a stat, it may appear to have dropped a level. A small number of UE will rectify this, restoring you to your previous level.

As ever, underlying stat and skill levels have been uneffected, just the method of display.

Suck it down.

1) Did we ever decide NOT to post this list, or was it just forgotten about?

2) Why don't people who care about stats just make their own lists as they advance?

3) Right now having a stat 'past the curve' means you put more than the starting UE cost in to increment up once. But it would be Very Interesting (debatably useful or IC) if there was a second indication of what the curve for that stat is among all players...I'm thinking if there is a curve from "you suck at this skill" to "maxed out" and you place each player currently active/existing along that curve, what's the standard deviation? And even if that info is not made accessible to PCs, wouldn't it be useful to GMs?

GM's see things as numbers. Whereas you might see competent they see 40 and so on and so forth. I've known a few people who have spreadsheets concerning stats and I usually assume that most of us who have been around long enough know most of it in our heads.

I could see this implementation being useful for newbies to gage how good they really are...since average really isn't average around here, is it?

Well, technically average is "average", but as with most RPG's, PC's aren't average. So in terms of players, average can be considered significantly below average, but relatively average in terms of the general populace. That said, since no-one plays wants to play a character that is just average, I'd expect most people to view an "average" stat as being not particularly... um... good.

I don't think the list was ever posted but I'd presume most players who've been around any decent amount of time have long since plotted it.

For what little it's worth (ie, nothing), I'd still be against the idea of posting the list purely because it's a token stand against SD being another number-crunching game.

Why even bother having the word substitutions if their values are just going to be made available? You might as well just revert everything back to numeric displays.

I'm not really sure what you're asking in the third question... but I'm old... and drunk, so it's probably comprehension fail on my part.

Fun fact: There was (possibly still is) an admin-only experimental version of @stats that displayed stats and skills as power-bars, based on the fuel gauge code in vehicles.

I don't think average is average for NPC's either.

The third questions/request is the concept of having relational @stats. So "average" is "average"...well, maybe not average be average. (The concept of having every character be in direct relation to the boundaries of the existing playerbase would be both fantastic and totally freak everyone out.) but being able to know where you faired with your stats to everyone else would be awesome to know.

For example: imagine you typed @stats and saw the (+) and (-) beacons next to every skill/stat detailing whether they were above or below the average player...or perhaps the average player and npc.

That's what I got out of it. However, I am also drunk...but young. For whatever my two chy is worth.

Quote: from Rastus2 on 2:39 pm on Sep. 20, 2010[br]
For what little it's worth (ie, nothing), I'd still be against the idea of posting the list purely because it's a token stand against SD being another number-crunching game.

Thing is, players just compare words or UE cost. Not that I'm going to try and argue in favour of putting up a list - I really couldn't care less at this point - but players will typically always find a way to wave their moo-penors at each other.

Over the years I've developed a spreadsheet based on my own character development that tracks the UE cost of stat/skills and the levels associated with them. I know how much UE i need to spend to get to the curve for instance, I plot out my personal UE goals and develop my character accordingly. This helps me gauge my prowess as a character against Oldbies and helps me precisely spend UE to actually stand a CHANCE whether it's combat or not against people who've collected over 2000 UE in their char's life time.

That being said, it's not a bannable offense to track this information, it is however a bannable offense to share this information with other players, so don't do it. Trust me =]

P.S This makes the game more fun for me, adds depth to the development of my character when theirs no RP to be had when things are slow. I try to make a game out of tracking my progress with use of spreadsheets for Stats/Skills and I use spreadsheets to track revenue from means of making money ICly, I always keep an e-note handy to simulate the idea that I have the tools to make use of these spreadsheets ICly. and If i could and if it wasnt' so cumbersome I'd store them in an e-note, but for now atleast it makes some kind of sense even if the data cannot be stolen from my e-note because it can't exist with the current code.


It makes sense ICly to plot out your charisma progression on an e-Note?

HOW CHARMING WAS I LAST MONTH: VERY CHARMING
HOW CHARMING AM I TODAY: I'D TOTALLY FUCK ME

Quote: from Murphy on 8:59 am on Dec. 13, 2010[br]
Quote: from Rastus2 on 2:39 pm on Sep. 20, 2010[br]
For what little it's worth (ie, nothing), I'd still be against the idea of posting the list purely because it's a token stand against SD being another number-crunching game.

Thing is, players just compare words or UE cost. Not that I'm going to try and argue in favour of putting up a list - I really couldn't care less at this point - but players will typically always find a way to wave their moo-penors at each other.

Best way to wave your moo penor is to kill someone.

(Edited by DigitalTyranny at 9:25 am on Dec. 13, 2010)

Quote: from Murphy on 9:24 am on Dec. 13, 2010[br]It makes sense ICly to plot out your charisma progression on an e-Note?

HOW CHARMING WAS I LAST MONTH: VERY CHARMING
HOW CHARMING AM I TODAY: I'D TOTALLY FUCK ME

Yes actually.

IC example..

"I think i'm a likeable guy, but i'm havin' trouble convincing these people to agree with me, I need to work on my tactics to smooth things over with them.."

OOC result spends UE in charisma.

BTW i meant track the revenue spreadsheets ICly, not the stats spreadsheets, lol. Thought that was a given.

Quote: from DigitalTyranny on 12:26 pm on Dec. 13, 2010[br]
Quote: from Murphy on 9:24 am on Dec. 13, 2010[br]It makes sense ICly to plot out your charisma progression on an e-Note?

HOW CHARMING WAS I LAST MONTH: VERY CHARMING
HOW CHARMING AM I TODAY: I'D TOTALLY FUCK ME

Yes actually.

IC example..

"I think i'm a likeable guy, but i'm havin' trouble convincing these people to agree with me, I need to work on my tactics to smooth things over with them.."

OOC result spends UE in charisma.


You combine that type of reasoning and spreadsheets? Is your character Arnold J. Rimmer?

Hahaha!

BTW, There is an IC way to explain the progress of intelligence or gaining a skill. You simply invent knowledge you've acquired and track it in IC terms within a e-note as if you've kept a journal of your achievements..

It would be silly but totally IC.. Those terms would relate to OOC ways of determining skill levels and it'd all work out.

I wouldn't do that. But like I said, I was referring to revenue tracking via spreadsheet.