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Give me hope
singing dem newbie blues

I just joined very recently (two weeks!) and am fighting the grinding feeling I get from running crates. Especially now that my character is paying rent on red. My character has made some interesting connections, some fun RP(!), but nothing apparently with income potential.

Everyone seems to have a job but no work.

I understand thematically, and functionally, Sindome is a harsh place which I appreciate. But yea.. Grinding crates to pay rent and save for some clothes that will keep the weather off is not quite the play experience I am looking for.

I will stick with it, but could use a little encouragement. :)

You can make the most money from business with other PCs, you should be turning your desire for other forms of income into an IC motivation to seek out business related RP with other people.

There's plenty to do as an alternative to crates, you just need to poke your head out and find it.

Grinding crates? If you're looking at it as grinding crates...

Stop!

You could be using that time coming up with more creative ways to earn chy and butting heads with other players.

Worse that can happen is it works out poorly for you; but you'll RP plenty and have automated chyen sources as a safety-net if you really do need to make the cut for rent. But the threat of bankruptcy can be an RP source in and of itself.

Thanks, I understand RP with other PCs is the best chance, and maybe you are correct I just need to keep trying until something sticks.

It's also worth noting that there are many very openly IC organizations where one can apply for a job and earn an income, as well as potential role-play. How available those are depends upon whether you're determined to stay in one area or whether your character would branch out.

You have plenty of opportunities out there to exploit. Crates have been, at worst, a temporary thing for my characters. There is hope!

I hear you. It doesn't change when you stop being a newbie. There are always times when you have to grind. There are always times when you are barely getting by. Here are the options IMHO...others may have better advice.

1) aim high. send out the word in every way you can find of ICly to get it out there. discreetly asking around never seems to work, at least for me. shotgun effect it and hope something sticks.

2) making more money doesn't mean shit. It won't get you anywhere near to your goals, at least not quickly. It really just means you have further to fall. If you're making enough to get by, the 'fun' and big-money stuff is going to come through networking. Through meeting people and building up relationships with them. Think 'hey, if my character is desperate enough, what are they going to do to make that money. I am personally terrible at this, but it's my impression that this is the desired state of action for the 'have nots' of the Dome.

Yea, my character would really not like a 'salaried' position on Gold but things down on Red seem hard to come by. Like I said, I'll stick with it.

"making more money doesn't mean shit."

Hah, yea, my character just wants some clothes that aren't always sopping wet, so maybe they will take a boring corpie type job just to afford some new clothes.

A trend I'm personally seeing lately is newer PCs expecting a job to show up. Posting on the grid "I'm looking for X job with some corp..." That doesn't work IRL and it doesn't work here.

The best resource that I find most effective for newer players is SIC. Tell people you're looking for a job, you have X and Y skills. If there are people around with ideas, they'll tend to put them out, if there aren't, try again later.

There are other ways to earn automated income as well.

I won't touch on earning income with PCs. I have my own opinion on that but, it does happen. Maybe short term things like offering to be a courier, finding something aces in a market, etc. There are things, they require some finding sometimes.

Admittedly you also have to be careful who you start biz with because they may be setting things up with you one week and no longer playing the game the next.

There are many, many, many more possibilities besides "coded income" and "PC payouts".

Seeing people above talk like those are the only poles of the employment/economy/income landscape makes it sound like autojobs or salaried positions are the only options OTHER THAN making deals with PCs.

Even between PCs, buying and selling to each other or hiring each other for errands aren't the only possibilities. And PC-to-PC deals aren't the only possibilities either - NPCs have the power to give huge payouts if they're earned.

"Buying and selling" doesn't have to be limited to low-price, low-margin, low-fun trades. "Errands" doesn't have to be limited to "get me a pack of cigarettes because my brand isn't sold on this sector". People who are in this thread talking about what THEY know, only know what they have seen. Or dared.

What you DARE to try is usually possible, with or without GM support, as long as the RP makes sense. The thing that usually makes people's wishes (for a job or another goal) is that their RP doesn't make sense.

Like someone said, you don't work your way into a job by posting "hire me" to Craigslist, though if you're a freelancer this can be ONE THING you'd try. So if your RP is limited to posting to the Employment forum on the grid, that's no RP at all.

Likewise, demanding work from a person who has no idea who you are, whether you're any good with your skills, and isn't observing willingness, trustworthiness, and maybe some ass-kissing and cooperation on your character's part, isn't going to work either - NPC or PC, it doesn't matter, this will fall down either way. Same with arm-twisting and posturing - be ready to back it up or get smacked down, if this is the tactic you want to try.

To me, the real problem here is less that new players enter the game and "expect a job to show up", but more that since they're new they haven't seen how having their character meet other characters, interact, live their lives, learn about the brand-new city they've just arrived in as a naked, feeble, clueless immigrant, is roleplaying, which is more the point of the game than getting set up with income, grinds and automated tasks.

It's a strategy game, in a way, but the strategy isn't in min-maxing your efforts-and-profits according to coded rules, until you can build your character's gear set with coded objects you spend on. The strategy is in managing your character's relationships with others, the information they're able to receive and trade and KEEP to themselves until the right moment, in roleplaying your way into either learning where the killer opportunities are or creating some.

It doesn't happen overnight. Yes, you might need a "job" while this plottery is happening. No, "job" doesn't have to mean a grind. Ideally, even a salaried job is actually an opportunity for exercising your character's skills and making extra money off that via RP with people inside or outside the business.

I'd give examples, but, one of two unfortunate things are likely to happen: Either someone will shriek that I just spilled IC info OOCly and that people should learn it by roleplaying their character into learning it (I actually agree with this to some extent, it's a gray area), or else, people will take it as a recipe for success and next thing you know every new character will be pursuing the job stated in my example.

So where's the hope in all this? There is plenty.

There's hope in understanding that you can make your first 100,000 chyen off players, not off NPC employers or NPC sales.

There's hope in understanding that just because it's your first week and crates and the factory are the only income you know how to RP into so far, there's a galaxy of other options. Even on your chosen sector.

There's hope in understanding that if you're here for the reason we all are, which is "to roleplay", you can develop just about any kind of opportunity over time. And see it pay off. A one-time big-score or an elevated position with power, perks and salary, or another kind of goal entirely - the game isn't about the result, for better or worse, the game is about the struggle to get there. And even once you do, the new reality should be a springboard for even further goals, not a stopping point where you can now sit on your hands and "play" like your character has everything they want.

There's hope in understanding that GMs want to see you employed and stimulated. When your RP takes you in a direction where admins need to take you through the next hurdle or meeting or caper, we'll do so - but our job isn't to hold your hand through it and hand over the prize. Would you expect a PC's player to behave that way? NPCs don't behave that way either. Give the game your best roleplay, and your ideas and dreams might or might not pay off. It's a living breathing world, not one where the trick is to figure out what "magic words" to give the other characters and unlock some spiff.

There's hope in understanding that this game is FULL OF players. Just because most of them aren't right at the immigration area most of the time doesn't mean they aren't out there experiencing the promise of this game: Intense, hardcore RP. You can and will find them, and when you do, you will learn who can work with you - give you something, ask you for something,plot with you. And there's hope in understanding that even when you do meet PCs, there will be still more to meet and find. You don't have TIME to RP with everyone, so, use your RP time on the ones who are giving you RP you can work with. I mean, that's how people are going to react to your RP too. If it does something for them, on an IC or an OOC level, they'll continue to seek your character out.

There's hope in understanding that things take time. Even if the reality weren't that most people can't play their character in the game 16 hours a day and you have to wait for players or GMs to become available or follow up, things would still take time, because plots don't begin, resolve, and end in a 3 hour playing session after supper, or in a 3-day series of scenes. This game's richer than that.

There's hope in understanding that people aren't here to be assholes, the players and admins are here to give each other fun gameplay and to experience it themselves. If the characters IC are assholes, that's RP, it's not actually intended to impede your own character for no reason at all. Even the characters, with a couple exceptions, aren't really about just being dicks to everyone, or to you, for no reason. Any character who is played by a player who wants to roleplay in this game will be persuadable in some way or another to cooperate with you. If that weren't true, then, that other player isn't going to get any RP at all after a while, if you see what I mean.

Want hope?

All the things I stated above were marked with the word "understanding". If you're too new to understand them based on experience, then, replace "understanding" with "believing". Dare to hope these things and let them power your RP.

Thank you so much Linekin for your thoughtful posts. I will reread them again to make sure it all sinks in. I think I was a bit overwhelmed OOCly (and ICly a bit) by the confluence of - money, place to sleep, likelihood that everyone is going to steal from you and kill you.

In RP we trust.

'"Buying and selling" doesn't have to be limited to low-price, low-margin, low-fun trades. "Errands" doesn't have to be limited to "get me a pack of cigarettes because my brand isn't sold on this sector". People who are in this thread talking about what THEY know, only know what they have seen. Or dared.'

I should certainly hope not to give that impression. When it comes to making chyen, the sky is the limit. I only encouraged the OP to pursue RP as a forms of making cash, not... replacing NPC grinds with PC grinds. I don't think that anybody was suggesting that.

@karmaportrait: http://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/anything-really/how-do-you--progress--in-the-game--662/ and the things linked from it, especially the first link, might he of interest to you.

@Euclid: I wasn't reacting to anything youpersonally said. This is what I get for not naming names :) Which I'm still not going to do.