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Affecting sleepers
Where to draw the line?

So this is something that has been bugging me for months and I totally forgot to post about it.

When is it appropiate to mess around with a sleeper?

I messed with one pretty badly one time and got scolded, but then I saw other characters doing the same without incident.

-Is it okay if they leave their flat door open?

-Is it okay if you somehow gain entry without invitation?

-Is it okay if they are messed by someone else then tossed into the street?

-Is it okay if they disconnect for more than 15 minutes?

-Should you move them? I've seen good and bad sleeper moving, from kidnapping to helping an involuntarily disconnected player.

-Should you steal from them? I was robbed several times as a newbie for one to five minutes DC due to poor internet, and while I got personally angry I found it IC themely.

So, players, staff:

When is it appropiate to mess around with a sleeper?

Personally, I don't really see an issue of any kind messing with sleepers. I mean we can't obviously kill them (Without contacting an admin first) so that helps with random murders and such but if someone's sleeping on the streets and just happen to have ten grand, a liteterm, four packs of smokes and a condom in their pocket you're gonna take that condom for sure. There does need to be a time frame for it though, like sleepers should get a 5-10 minute DC threshold to protect those who've accidentally logged out or are having internet issues to stop them from being robbed whilst they can't protect themselves.

The thing about the 5-10 minute DC is if you've just entered the room and you found a sleeper, how long would you know that he/she has been disconnected?

Yeah, I agree that one shouldn't rob a sleeper as soon as they disconnect if they are in a public place, but y'know.. If I come across someone who's sleeping. I'm gonna check their pockets, see if there's anything worthwhile but there's going to be a criteria. Not an immigrant or a mixer I know. Only people I would steal from are those I don't like or a corpie who's fallen asleep on Red. It happened once..

Though in saying, These day's I only really move sleepers to safer places or places I feel they should be moved too. I don't like seeing 'em on the streets or laying around in bars.. I'll move 'em to a dumpster or an empty abandoned building or something..

But yeah. You sleep in the street, you take what you get.

I'd assume it'd have to be admin/coder implemented. Like a little OOC message such as something like this

[OOC: This user is still under (amount of time) sleeper protection] Problem this would generate however is people could simply DC during hostile scenarios like being mugged etc so another system would need to be implemented if they've been attacked etc that over-rides my concept.

On the other note, I think messing around with sleepers like if they leave a door open would be okay. I mean...Sort of their mistake.

Other stuff to get in a home uninvited should also be okay. But I feel like a clue or faint trail for the sleeper to discover should be left. (You know...leads to RP?)

And that's a great idea Ryuzaki...

A sleeper leaves his place open it's fair game. Burglary is all the rage in the mix anyway to my knowledge. It'd be the same as breaking in while someone's sleeping without actually having to break in.

I find that typical etiquette is to allow a player a couple minutes to reconnect, but beyond that anything's fair game.

As I've seen it, D/Cs in public places are not to be messed with. If you suspect that someone is having internet troubles, you don't rob them while they're helpless. That's meanspirited.

As for messing with people's homes when they leave the door open, I'm uncertain. I was recently scolded for robbing a home with a sleeping character in it, despite making a point to not actually go into the room the sleeper was in. An admin opinion would be appreciated on this.

Curt5 wrote:

"As I've seen it, D/Cs in public places are not to be messed with. If you suspect that someone is having internet troubles, you don't rob them while they're helpless. That's meanspirited."

My thoughts:

I've had a computer where it could not hold the signal and SD is very demanding in its need for constant connection. Though I usually dc'd for a minute or two and it looked like I didn't in game, there was one time my computer decided to try to fix the problem and I ended up not being able to connect for near 20 minutes. It was quite frustrating especially since I was out in the open. Thankfully the person I was with understood.

If someone leaves the door open, yea. You even catch on sic sometimes some chatter about toothbrushes being used and stuff. You leave your door open, you're opening yourself up to being burglarized. Or at least having mustaches drawn on you and whipped cream put on your hand.

For the most part, Admins have stressed to leave sleepers alone.

Kuzco, you wrote:

-Is it okay if they leave their flat door open?

See above.

-Is it okay if you somehow gain entry without invitation?

In this case, mess with them how?

-Is it okay if they are messed by someone else then tossed into the street?

I guess it would depend on how you’re messing with them? Killing no, but something else, maybe? I think admins would need to share their thoughts on this? (You could always ask if the situation comes up.)

-Is it okay if they disconnect for more than 15 minutes?

If someone goes to sleep out in the open they have been warned. DC’d though, my thought is No.

But how would you necessarily know (unless you timed it)? Move them to a location and see? (See my situation above.)

-Should you move them? I've seen good and bad sleeper moving, from kidnapping to helping an involuntarily disconnected player.

My thoughts: If they’ve been there a long while, you could. Would it be in character to?

-Should you steal from them? I was robbed several times as a newbie for one to five minutes DC due to poor internet, and while I got personally angry I found it IC themely.

You shouldn’t have been messed with when you were DC’d. Sorry that happened. Those players didn’t know the game’s etiquette. Themely or not, there’s an understood rule not to mess with sleepers. However, not everyone understands that, especially if they are new.

If someone's fallen asleep out in the open, especially if they are new (1st 2 weeks), my thought is don't be an ass and rob them. Yes, it's themely but give them some leeway. (We don't want to give them a loss straight out of the gate...heh. But, maybe take them to the coffins and then razz them the next time you see them? Ask for a drink in exchange as a "protection fee". It can create RP and a new contact. And if they're an ass about it, well, they can learn.)

A character that's been around over a month? They know better than to sleep out in the open carrying everything including their kitchen sink (dang strength nanos [earlier thread reference there ;) ]) .

If they DC, no.

However, deciding to stay up so late as a player and fall asleep out in the open? I would expect mine to be stripped down of belongings, leaving the shirt and jeans, maybe. 5 chy jeans, why bother? Custom clothes? Oh hell yes, gone.

- - -

There are too many variables which is likely the reason for the blanket rule of Don’t mess with sleepers. I’ve seen someone fall asleep outside and there are consequences to that. I guess if you see someone and they still are clothed / have their stuff, you can move them and after a (long) while, ask an admin via xhelp.