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GO CLONE, would ya?
Tired of waiting at Genetek for people

I understand that after your character dies, you may need a few minutes to cool off. I get it. I've been there. The death funnel takes awhile, basically enforcing a cool down period, plus you've got to wait some additional time (if you aren't corpse cloned).

The issue I have is that there is not always time, especially if your character is a newb, to take chances with combat. Which means that there is not always time for a high level of RP.

I would love for every character that my character kills, or for every time my character is killed, for a ton of RP to happen in the lead up. However, most of us know that there are times where the adrenaline hits and fight or flight kicks in.

When I played an oldbie, I was never really worried about backup showing up for my opponent. Hell, I would drag things out specifically hoping that backup would arrive and make my job tougher.

Playing a fresh out of the vats newb with no past character UE, I'm simply not going to take that chance. If it comes down to your character or mine, I'm going to try to survive.

I'm getting a little annoyed with the fact that when I do some how manage to take down a tougher character, they not only don't clone for say, an hour or two hours, but they don't clone for several days.

And I'm stuck waiting at Genetek to continue the RP. Not to perm anyone, because that isn't my style unless I'm forced, but to you know, ROLE PLAY.

When I die, as much as it sucks sometimes (perhaps even causing me to stay up extra late), I go clone. As many of you know, there are safety precautions in place to let you get back into the game, role play, but not be perma-killed if you don't leave the Recombination Room.

Some of you might be reading that saying OMG IC INFO. Well, sort of. But this is a theme issue. I just took your character down, and I want to frigging RP with you afterwards. Maybe gloat, maybe offer you a job, maybe clone you from your corpse.

Guess what I don't want to do? Stand at Genetek with your gear, or money for you to get a clone, or a scathing insult, or perhaps even to perm you, waiting for boringly endless hours for you to come out.

If you don't want to die, don't play a Mixer. Definitely don't play a Ganger or someone affiliated with gangs. Dying is part of the game, and so is cloning and dealing with the consequences of IC actions.

I'm tired of having to come up with meta excuses or tell people that characters have permed because there is no IC justification for someone not coming out of the vats for 48 hours.

I get that there could be situations where you have to go, or you are so upset that you can't continue to play. Those are times when you ask an admin to OOCly let the person who might be waiting for your ass at Genetek that they should go RP elsewhere for awhile.

A good sport would even wait at Genetek (as I have done many a time when I couldn't clone right away) for the player to come back online, and then clone.

I mean, how is waiting for me to sign off to clone any different than going around and killing NPCs with no GMs on? Or using information from @who to choose when to leave your cube.

I've been playing my last few characters as hardcore ganger/mixers who do not fuck around. I'm sure many of you can guess who my characters have been recently. I have no problem with playing the bad guy ICly, but I do have an issue with being cast in that role OOCly.

I've seen your roleplay first hand, and you generally don't seem like the person who would do anything but attempt the perm. It really seems like your whole MO is to just attack people for whatever reason (no matter how weak it is) and then go to Gentek to attempt to perm them. I know I wouldn't want to interact with someone with grapple X at the command.

The clone system seems perfectly fine to me, it stops people from camping vats, and such. If you kill them, then you get to gloat when you see them next and they don't remember you, but you have their jacket or something. But if you kill them and then see them at Gentek, they most likely aren't going to know who you are. You don't remember things after you die, you remember what your last clone updated remembers. You don't have some memory link between them and the past.

People who play the badguy are welcomed, but when they actually play it decently and roleplay. Versus abusing the games mechanics to your favor. There are dozens of great IC references I could point out but they're quite spottable.

Okay, as I said. Not a single person I have killed has actually cloned while I was there to continue the RP.

Are you really coming down on me for making enemies instead of friends... In the Mix?

Let's not get into any direct attacks or accusations against specific people on the forums, please.

This is not the place to talk about specific peoples RP and weither you like or agree with it or not.

Sable

Also, thank you for presuming to know my characters motivations, what has gone on behind closed doors, who might have been PAYING my character to ICly fuck with some of these people, etc.

Killing new players is not making enemies. Coming out of chargen as a combat pure is not making enemies. Killing someone over the most minor of slights is just, "I'm here to hack n' slash MUD." Which there are plenty of MUDs for that, I'm sure!

Enough before I lock the thread

To expand on what Xenode and Sable said: that's basically what this thread started out at as in the first place. It pertains to very specific few people.

But to try to respond to what feels like a bait: not presuming goes both ways. There are more reasons to not respawn than to 'perm-dodge'. Not respawning to 'perm-dodge' isn't a valid reason anyway as you pointed out, since people are generally aware of [redacted Genetek mechanics] and take in-game precautions beyond simply not respawning. I really can't offer any more specifics without revealing IC information or pretending to know what goes through other player's minds.

As I said. Please do not presume to know my, or anyone elses character motivations. What you see may only be the tip of the iceberg. Or it might just be someone stirring the pot. Either way, the amount of time I put into RPing my characters is extensive, even if you don't see it. And for all of you that died? yeah, I talked about perming a lot, because I wanted the players I was RPing with to know they could treat my character without kid gloves. This is the Mix. I'm playing a Mixer.

I'm not baiting anyone. We have a small player base and I'm tired of getting a bad rep because I'm not given the chance to RP.

It's not an isolated incident. It's happened to me 5 times or so in the last 2 weeks.

I'm going to trust that. Although...

'If you don't want to die, don't play a Mixer. Definitely don't play a Ganger or someone affiliated with gangs. Dying is part of the game, and so is cloning and dealing with the consequences of IC actions.'

This felt wholly inappropriate if you don't mind me saying. I like being given a hard time. I enjoy character death, especially when there's a good RP premise to it. I don't always immediately clone, or even within the day. There tends to be a good reason - IRL reasons and such. Maybe the timing was extremely unfortunate and I had RL matters to attend to, for instance. Just theoretical examples here.

'We have a small player base and I'm tired of getting a bad rep because I'm not given the chance to RP.'

I'm not really aware of how this could be happening without OOC communication? Could you elaborate?

Well, this was an experiment gone wrong. Obviously the Mix has changed a lot and my style of play needs to be fully restricted, even when I'm playing a newb with no stats.

I truly wish you guys had given any of the characters I've played in the past month a chance to RP with you, instead of treating me like some hack and slash guy. I picked a Mixer to be my first real character in 8 years so that I could play with the gloves off and I picked on players that I knew from my time as Head GM (or thought I knew) could take it and would enjoy having a rival to pick on and plot against.

I had no OOC intention of perming anyone. I just RPed ICly like I did, because that it what I felt the RP dictated. I would have found ways to make up any losses in money or prestige down the line, if anyone had bothered giving me a chance.

Huh, well there goes my OOC suspicions confirmed. Color me not surprised.

There's something I'd like to ask you about though, Slither, but it's IC sensitive. Any way to go about it?

If it's a GM issue you will need to xhelp and ask to speak with Sable or Jinx. If it's relating to me personally and won't reveal IC info that I should not have (I'm retired) then you can e-mail me at sevenecks on gmail.

People must take into account that everyone's schedule isn't going to be perfectly aligned with yours. That when a character death occurs sometimes something IRL was bugging them the entire time during RP and when they finally died, they now have a chance to step away from the keyboard/phone to take care of IRL before they can return.

It sucks, but it's true.

I've made my thoughts on the subject clear. And they are by no means an edict from above. I understand that there are extenuating circumstances on occasion, but I don't for a second believe that was the case with every person my characters killed. I was running scared, with a newb character and no backup going up against several established characters at the same time.

I picked off low hanging fruit in order to force bigger badder characters to make mistakes that I could potentially capitalize on. I tried to make sure there was RP involved, be it on the grid, or the constant stream of SIC shit talking I was doing.

When confronted with this choice: Talk or save up fatigue to try and escape with my characters life, I choose to keep my mouth shut and try to escape.

If I had been playing Seven, or Lansing, I would have treated the situation very differently. Those characters have resources that were developed over five or ten years.

My goal was only to stir the pot. I can see that I stirred it to much and OOCly upset many of you. I refuse to not RP my characters as I see fit, so I will just RP one of my characters that has IC restrictions on their behavior so that I don't feel like I'm being forced into a box by having to wear kid gloves on a 3 day old character.

Apologies to all that were OOCly upset by me targeting them. If you died, it's because I respect you as an RPer and thought you could handle it both OOCly and ICly.

I'm unsure of who NewAlias or Slither was handling (are they the same guy? O_o), but there should never be an OOC reason for you to keep the gloves on. If your character would do something, then he/she should just do it.

Then again, I haven't really had much time to play as of late so maybe I'm just out of the loop. :/

Yes. Same person. I switched to this alias to explain my actions, as I was feeling quite OOCly attacked, and to put the matter to bed once and for all.

That is unfortunate. From the times I've been able to RP with you, you've been pretty high quality and fair in RP.

"abusing the games mechanics to your favor"

That is just sour grapes, and reflects either a total ignorance of game mechanics or a desire for this game to be something it is not.

Too bad. I kinda feel the game needs more repugnant characters. The nastier, the better. Some may not like me saying this, but I don't think you should apologise for RP'ing your character properly. If anything, it makes the game a hell of a lot more fun!

Quiet, dead Red, or high strung Red, with a chance for better RP?

I can relate a lot to what's been said here...lately it seems like no one wants to play the game SD is. I encourage you all to die more often and do more crazy shit. This isn't fluffybunny moo...go out and change the dome or die trying.

For my two cent worth, i think its a shame. whilst i don't know who the IC character was, any character that is mixing things up and creating conflict in the mix is only a good thing. I for one welcome any grief and RP my character gets (although truth be told id be the first to admit that it has taken me a long time to take the gloves off my character and stop trying to wrap them in cotton wool).

You either have to have faith in the GMs and by extension the player base and their ability to monitor the game to prevent griefing/abuse, or you dont and your playing the wrong game..

i haven't been around for that long but from my understanding and from the short period of time that i have been around. things seem to have gotten a lot more safe (even if only in perception) than they used to be especially in the mix and i for one miss that "im scare to even open my door.. and it was a thrill to be running crates here there and everywhere worrying about if i was going to get jacked at any point"..

i for one hopes that more of us mix things up and bring back the danger.. and would implore the likes of slither , other GMs and oldbie (experienced players) to chargen a newbie character, take a challenge and teach us newbies how to make shit happen with 0 ue and no ingame influence.. i for one will be watching , making notes and silently applauding (hopefully staring down the the wrong end of a gun).

Personally the most fun i've had in character was when i was owned by as a immie by a oldbie.. (in character i hated it.. but as a player i was loving every minute of it)..

bring on the chaos and the RP.

I don't usually like to post on the forums in a response, and I try to keep things IC as possible, but I wanted to add to this discussion. I'm going to tell a story from another Cyberpunk MUD I played that showed me what conflict for its own sake can lead to.

Brand new character, walking down the street. Doing their version of a crate run. The package is put away, no one can see it.

Suddenly someone attacks my character with a chainsaw and kills him instantly. Because he had been walking down the street.

The "dice roll combat" is the lowest and final form of conflict. When it comes without any depth it's the most frustrating thing in the world. And I had the guy actually OOCly apologize to me later because he said he didn't realize he would "kill me so quick".

There is a place for combat and death, but without context it becomes meaningless, and if it occurs often then characters become meaningless. Why bother being attached to a character or put any effort in when you know at any point someone might just decide to kill them for some easy reason, such as "ignoring you" or something.

I don't mind dying and losing as long as their is some context to it that makes it interesting. Something my character failed at doing, maybe he was plotting against a gang leader and got found out, maybe he'd been embezzling from a business, or even getting into an argument with a ganger, yes, that's a good reason as well.

And keep in mind that conflict doesn't always result in perm or even non-perm death. Just because you beat someone unconscious doesn't mean you need to snap their neck. Beat the crap out of them and let them live with the bruises as a reminder of whose in charge.

Conflict is the essence of drama, but hollow conflict makes for bad stories.

Hello! My first post on the forums.

I would like to point out that when you die your death is not yours alone. The person or people killing you are involved and the potential people that paid them or that will betray them and the people they are betrayed to or their friends that get dragged into a larger conflict or the people that buy your stolen gear and later get ripped off for being seen with it or even killed themselves the RP belongs to everyone that eventually gets involved in the ripple effect of your death.

Please try not to focus on how it impacted you alone but how it might impact the entire game no matter how little or how much. That's the fun of role playing.

Thank you.

I have to disagree. Context can't be everything. Otherwise, everyone on Sindome will just end up pissed when they become involved in the machinations of others and become a pawn in someone elses game, being moved around a board without even realizing it. That might mean a string of bad luck, being murdered, robbed, or other negative IC experience that can be enjoyable OOCly or at least serve as a challenge to motivate RP.

This happens every day. So many people don't realize what the RP they are involved in is actually about, at least on some levels. The longer you spend on Sindome the more threads you learn to work and the more layers your roleplay takes on. You may say one thing and on the surface it seems to mean one thing but to Char A it means X and Char B it means Y and Char C it means Z.

It's not until you start working threads of your own that you open your mind up to the possibility that you really don't even know what you don't know.

I know many of you are nodding your heads right now and saying 'so true' and some of you are shaking your heads saying 'huh?'. Just try to remember that what you are seeing is just the tip of an RP iceberg.

If you want to feel safet when you walk out of your cube, ICly decide live in a part of the city that allows law enforcement to carry guns.

Conflict is good for the game. People stick around on Sindome because it gets the blood pumping, not because the people they meet ICly are 'nice'.

Even if a character can't RP with you (but is screwing you over some how ICly) that doesn't mean that them taking the time to dick you over wasn't an RP gift.

You've got someone to hate now. You've got someone to plot against. Someone that incurred your wrath and that you are totally ICly rightfully able to dick over in return.

You've also potentially been given a defining moment in your characters history. Why ignore it? Take it and run with it. I try to let the RP dictate who my characters become. I come into the city with an idea of who they were, but not who they are going to grow into.

This isn't real life people, it's okay to get revenge. In fact, revenge causes a ton of RP -- but only if you let it.

Some of you have brought up the rather 'weak' reasons I used to start conflict recently. An imagined slight here, a joke taken out of context there, too slow a response to a question, whatever.

Sindome is a multiplayer game, we all work together OOCly to compete ICly (Cooperative Competition). I can't force anyone to give me reasons / opportunities to ICly dislike them.

There are times that I really just want to jump in and cause conflict. Not sit at the Drome getting to know your character. That's my prerogative. We all have to take what we can from the RP we get. If you don't enjoy the combat side of Sindome, but are drawn into it anyway, you could still use what happened as an IC motivator, or a talking point in a conversation. Tell the new immy about how you just got your ass beat or robbed or whatever. Hell, tell the whole Drome. It's stories like that which add to the theme. And heck, maybe, just maybe, you can rile the masses up enough to for a posse and go out and FIND the guy that did the bad things to you and take them down!

A lot of us want to be nice right off the bat -- especially to newbies -- so that they stick around. In the Mix, I am nice to newbs OOCly but often ICly am an asshole (while still trying to be OOCly helpful).

I am not a newbie, and I do not want to be treated as such, and I don't want to have to explicitly state that to everyone I meet via OOC. It ruins immersion. I don't need days or weeks to get to know the city OOCly and to absorb the game's mechanics and theme. Not everyone needs that time. Let's not punish new characters that want to jump in and start conflict before they 'learn the game'. I want to start really roleplaying the MOMENT my character leaves chargen.

I give IC indicators that I am a competent RPer (using poses and spoofs where possible) and familiar with Sindome (using CP slang / referencing commonly known IC info).

Some players can start a new character and jump right into whatever roleplay is going on at the moment. Or jump right onto the bad side of the wrong people (on purpose guys!).

Someone said that we all need to trust the GMs and by extension the players to monitor and prevent the kind of griefing that is bad for the game. I could not agree more. GMs might not always be around to stop things, but you can be sure if stuff wasn't IC they will take care of it. And if someone is walking around fucking over everyone and sucking the game up, you can bet some oldbie is going to come along and put that baka in their place. The hard way.

You see a guy popping out of the shadows to kill you while you're running crates.

I see the tail end of a killing spree that was funded by corporations to destabilize the Mix.

Or a hitman that is making a massive mistake and taking out the wrong person (perhaps OOCly intentionally, perhaps OOCly without realizing).

Or a move by a gang to shake down protection money from the courier business.

Or another hungry immy looking to make money the only way they can -- given they are an uneducated serial killer.

Or a new blood ganger doing his gang initiation by murdering his first person.

I see a mood setter. A wake up call. A bucket of water to the face.

The hard hello.

Welcome to Sindome. (muh fucka)

Well put. I honestly wish I could do so as easily as you, but found I had to have develop motivations to become a true red denizen.. Doesn't matter the history written, just couldn't play that darkness without it coming off fake, or with guilt.. The emblazoned darkness that is the essence of red is what originally inspired me to keep playing.. Never felt more alive than when hunted down by judges without even knowing the reason, locked up for a week (or more).. I don't need to know the reason, be it looking at someone the wrong way, someone's looks making you want to punch them until their skull becomes a glove; the repugnant scent of their soul to far fetched conspiracy.. I commend you and all the dark ones that turn it into such a beautifully dark paradise.. Fear is the only reason, the urge to kill yourself has not yet overtaken you're mind. Stay dark friend. >:o)~ and carry the wills of the shadows into the light for all to revere.

Well, on the initial topic, I'd hate to see some kind of forced cloning because sometimes RL doesn't let you stay logged in.

I took a death I probably could have avoided literally because my plane was boarding, and I had gotten into RP I hadn't expected, and I needed to disconnect almost instantly. Stood my ground, got killed for it, logged off while walking onto the plane. Hell Slither, you might even remember that whole scene.

Should I have maybe not left my apartment? Probably, but I didn't expect the long series of events that ended up happening, thought it was a good way to kill 2 hours.

Sorry, I guess I was only addressing the principal and not the topic.

I can't say I would expect someone to log back in directly after clone death.. Personally, I know I have been either anxious to see what else unfolds, or frustrated and still wanting to end a session with things at a close; that I rush at the opportunity.. others where I am too spent or not having enough time to do so.. I agree with the idea of what you want NA, commendable even.. But it can't be expected that someone jump right back into the mix, that's the same as expecting that every time you die, someone be waiting for you to tell you what happened.. Best example I could come up with. But that's expectations.. expectations always let down eventually, best to just do as you do and set the standard, what you would expect someone would do for you; and hope others do the same. I would imagine the whole experience of being cloned to be quite overwhelming in itself.. If it were me (not a character), I wouldn't want to be seeing anything but friendly faces at a clone bank.. I would hope someone to call me out as to what idiocy I performed to take a walk through the valley.. but I know that won't always happen either.. Even though we are all players, no person can please everyone, or make everyone happy. I stick to what I said though, not everyone can play that type of character, ATM I envy you and want to. Calling out that person to a bar when you see them and rubbing their nose in your win, advertising their gear packaged as 'found' or for sale even.. tracking them down to their residence or one of their hotspots to return it with a warning, or compliment or whatever your character may do are all ways to achieve the same, limitless to idea just which your character may pursue if any.. But don't get angry because they didn't come back.. I can never guarantee times.. Logging on, I don't know what's going to happen.. I could have 3hrs to play, get through 2:45 of it doing routine and having a few chance encounters.. and wind up heading back to cube to either a) sleep, or b)get jumped, don't know. Had times where that turned into a lot longer, and tried to play as long as I could, when death came, well sorry. that's my out. I have played being tortured and when out of time, passed out from fear/pain/etc.. if I die I die.. I try to afford time when I can, but can't always, and I don't like to break RP because of. I would personally love to be able to spends days at the helm, weeks even; but life interrupts that for me. I expect whatever happens, in all honesty, I would see it better that if your character was always waiting for clones to load up... but taking forever, why couldn't they be showing that frustration at those targets IC'ly? 'Did ya have a f*cking out-of-body experience cause your chassis was done cooking 3 days ago, scan?'. If you're character is irritated by it, patronize them for it.. But time is not always a friend. I haven't had time to sit down and play since..Sunday? But had been planning at least an hour to two a day beforehand.. So if I had' expectations died Sunday before logging off, first chance I have is right now.. 5 days. If it happens, I'm sorry. I don't mean for you to waste RP on me, I for one would much rather be there for it, even if that means dying again. Maybe there are those that avoid, but don't paint them fucktards and get angry, get creative. ;)~ You're creative enough to put them there, if you're insistent to continue it, be creative enough to get them out, or as to when they do.. Leave a calling card, Sign a picture you took of their corpse and leave it at the clone bank, leave a graffiti message on the street.. Put that frustration to use! >:o)~

Sorry, I ramble..

In defense of a player seeing either what, ICly, is a complete stranger, or ICly realizes they were in conflict with them as of last update, you can't really blame the CHARACTER for choosing to pretend to be asleep. If you read the IG newsletter, you can read accounts of people being mysteriously abducted upon clothing and loaded into an ICBM or what have you just out of spite. The IC circumstances indicate that the character may be better off if they wait for the bad man to go away.

Myself, I've shared a lev with someone who murdered one of my PCs, without getting into sensitive details, I asked myself, would my PC remember this? No, in fact, there's no WAY they could know this was the guy. Instead we stood there, exchanged a few jokes, and had a laugh. OOCly I'm thinking, well shit, he could finish the job right here if he wanted to, but ICly my PC would have no clue. So I played the scene as realistically as I thought I could, made no mention of the event in question, and on the whole, it was rewarding. Eventually he got off the lev to do whatever it was he needed to do, and I went my own way.

But I don't think it's bad form to wait in the tanks because there's a weirdo you don't know out there. Seems like IC common sense to me.

I guess if you don't like it, don't kill so many people. You can get your monologue and taunting on as they recover from the non-fatal buttkicking you just gave them... then I guess you could snap their neck if you were so inclined. Chy isn't that easy to amass, getting a phone, a meager weapon, and a clone is very dfficult in itself. It's not OOC to refuse to clone immediately, it's IC self-preservation.

Your PC may know PC X doesn't intend to perm you OOCly. That's fine, but would your PC know that? No, they're confused, waking up scared witless, and unsure what's going on.

Or maybe you permed someone and didn't know. Maybe they decided to stop playing because, welp. The struggle is important, making the world more dangerous? Eh, it's already pretty dangerous if you fart wrong. I've tried to make the world more dangerous, left people alive because, seriously, why even bother killing them, and ended up paying for it, because someone else doesn't show the same level of courtesy I do. Well, guess I have it coming then, probably is justified, all things considered.

I'm down for getting legit murdered. It has happened to me and that's fine. I'm not okay when it feels contrived or OOCly targetted. Excuses for not doing things abound, I make these excuses when I play myself. But murder-machine 9000 is not any fun to be around.

Point 1 - Chyen is extremely easy to amass. Don't be silly.

Point 2 - Like I said on ooc-chat. We encourage people to take a time out to calm down after a death. I don't want people encouraging others to clone immediately just so you can attempt to permanently kill them. It's a body missing memories. You need time OOCly in RL to decompress so you can treat it as such without any or as much bleed.

Also, people don't die enough to be honest. There's not enough inter-player conflict without the GMs having to prod people into action.

You obviously know some trick I don't, Cerberus, but that's okay. I guess it could be interpreted that running crates is easy money so bleh. It is a difference of perspective there, and purchasing yet another clone for someone to hack down senselessly feels knd of irritating... but if you're a newb just looking to get on your feet, chy is not easy to amass, imo. If it is, it might make for a good training video on how to afford the clones you'll need if you hope to just barely weather the storm.

Sorry for yet another double post but I have seen Red get senselessly wiped for seemingly no reason, it's just a thing, but recovery takes time. I don't see an absence of people getting killed, I see the opposite, actually. This is good, it violently shoves anyone who has any degree of self-preservation upwards, where they likely won't fine purchase, again, totally IC. But there's enough dealers of demise down there, I doubt it needs much encouragement. Still, I haven't played in months so I don't know what's what as of late. I would like to see, but that requires a sort of divine intervention, or circumventing the act. I'll wait on divine intervention.