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A discussion on the automated 10k limit
It removes any potential RP from automated income

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This is mainly a thread discussing the 10k automated income limit and how it could be improved. From what I've noticed, the way that the 10k limit is set up is that it does not incentivize actions such as deliveries.

The fact that it does not count profit itself, but just the total amount you gain means that you are unable to make as much as if you just spammed crates, because the cost of the product is counted into the limit you are allowed to make.

This means that to make the most out of your limit, you usually would just run crates until you're nearing the limit, then run one big ticket item to maximise the amount of money you can get out of the limit.

What I propose is to instead enforce a limit on the action itself, instead of an overall limit. The crates already do this, with a certain number you're allowed to run each day, so I don't see why other runner jobs could also have this limit imposed, albeit it could have a weekly limit instead.

Any thoughts?

By FunkyMango at Sep 26, 2023 12:57 AM
I kind of like the idea of the various means of earning chyen from NPCs or the environment being limited separately.

At the same time, I don't know if a simple X sales per week is the answer. That could end up being crazy lucrative. And it could mess with sales that are done for reasons other than making chyen. So it would be an improvement in some ways but would be worse in other ways.

Simple fact is that I can't think of a better system that keeps players from turning Sindome into a single player chyen grind machine, occasionally popping up to disrupt the game with their low-risk fortunes. Especially as I personally don't want GMs to have to waste their time chasing players down and waggling their fingers at them.

By Grey0 at Sep 26, 2023 3:06 AM
From what I've experienced so far, it's quite hard to meaningfully making money from certain deliveries. I'm not sure how detailed I'm allowed to describe it, but from what I can tell it's difficult to do those types of deliveries on your own, unless you're a specific archetype of character.

Plus, having it being limited by action still limits the amount of automated cashflow, just that I feel like more people would be incentivized to try and find deals and involve more people into doing the basic runner jobs. Although I'm not sure how else it would factor into the higher end of the game, I'm just a newbie questioning about what I feel could be better. Again, just an opinion and I'm not a trained game developer, so I could be wholly wrong about the balance of this situation.

By FunkyMango at Sep 26, 2023 3:23 AM
From what I've experienced so far, it's quite hard to meaningfully making money from certain deliveries. I'm not sure how detailed I'm allowed to describe it, but from what I can tell it's difficult to do those types of deliveries on your own, unless you're a specific archetype of character.

Plus, having it being limited by action still limits the amount of automated cashflow, just that I feel like more people would be incentivized to try and find deals and involve more people into doing the basic runner jobs. Although I'm not sure how else it would factor into the higher end of the game, I'm just a newbie questioning about what I feel could be better. Again, just an opinion and I'm not a trained game developer, so I could be wholly wrong about the balance of this situation.

By FunkyMango at Sep 26, 2023 3:23 AM
There is a pretty health variety of ways to make money in the game. No matter the type of character someone plays, or where they live, or what their play time is like, there is probably something they can do that relatively works for them.

What many newer players tend not to notice, is all the different ways to make money in the game have various trade-offs from one another; whether between their difficulty, time investment, how creative one can get with them, and other factors.

In general, many brand new characters played by a brand new players will tend to not value their own time as they put too much time into grinding for money they don't really need, something the tasks available to them are somewhat designed to discourage.

By 0x1mm at Sep 26, 2023 9:52 AM
The profit you're making from these runs in very much dependent on a lot of factors, the biggest one being reputation with said group. So even if you feel like you're not making much profit, you are gaining an amount of "respect" with that group. That alone could be seen as more profitable than the actual chyen you're making. They will also begin to pay you out more, the more you're liked. But even ignoring the profits you're being made, look at the bigger picture. You're doing work for this group, build up enough favor with them any maybe they include you in on some biz, or maybe you get some permissions to talk with some folk. Look beyond the profit incentive, and ask yourself how can I get more roleplay out of that transaction? Perhaps you should find a PC in that group and see they'll recognize your contributions to your cause. If they don't, now you've got more rp to convince them and make a potential ally.
By Reganza at Sep 26, 2023 1:02 PM
To their cause, I meant.
By Reganza at Sep 26, 2023 1:02 PM
One main problem I face as well is getting other immy runners to do jobs, as I know fairly well that I'm essentially cheating them out of an OOC mechanic.

By asking them to run items without a major profit it can cripple them, if it did not affect thier main forms of income and instead acted as a supplementary I think people would be more active in trying to get these sorts of jobs.

By FunkyMango at Sep 26, 2023 6:10 PM
Good deals and bad deals are all part of the in-game economy. No one is entitled to profit, they're always able to look for alternatives if they think they're getting ripped off.

Serious money-making in the game is often going to involve the exploitation of someone, one way or another, and a rotten deal to one is a golden deal to another.

By 0x1mm at Sep 26, 2023 7:30 PM
I don't know what it's like being an immy nowadays, but when I was just starting out, I knew that I was getting a pretty middling deal on running drugs to gangers and such, but I did it anyways because it was an accessible way to make some money. As long as I was still turning a decent profit, I didn't mind so much, because making money to keep afloat is more important than maximizing profits, that comes later.

I view the loss of potential profits due to profit margins eating into your income cap as part of the game. If you have a better way to use your income cap, go ahead and do that instead, but for many people, runs are the most time efficient ways to get their income out of the way.

By batko at Sep 27, 2023 1:43 AM
I can understand from a different perspective now, apologies. I see that some people may not have enough time to do all crate runnings, I have just applied my own experience (as I have ample time to do so) to others. Maybe this does not warrant a dramatic change, but maybe the admins can look over this and see whether such change is necessary or not.
By FunkyMango at Sep 27, 2023 5:50 AM
@FunkyMango,

What you are going through is something that everyone new to the game has gone through.

Part of "learning" to play Sindome is getting a feel for the various automated systems. Running crates. Selling things to NPCs. etc.

Trust that the systems are well balanced in relationship to each other.

By Hek at Sep 27, 2023 1:00 PM
I have different opinions on this.

Regarding the issue itself:

Some players/characters are willing to spend their entire weekly earning cap for a third of it's value because it is fast and convenient. Others see this and choose to do activities that get them their full budget or even more than their full budget. And I don't think FunkyMango is alone in seeing a recent trend here. I've heard various sources mention that it is hard to find people willing to blow their earning cap by running their items. This could be part of why. Or not.

Regarding the balance of systems:

Sindome has been developed for decades by a huge number of developers. The game's 'attitude' and 'direction' has shifted many times over the years. For may reasons, I feel that the balance of systems should be questioned and looked at and adjusted if needed. As long as it's kept civil and not breaking the rules, question and suggest away FunkyMango!

By Grey0 at Sep 28, 2023 4:24 AM
I agree, Grey0. Questioning the current status quo of the game is healthy, and there is always room for improvement. No harm in looking for change.

Despite what I said in my previous post, I wouldn't be opposed to a sort of relief mechanic for deliveries so that it pays out a certain amount but ignores something like 20% of the profit in regards to your cap. So, if it pays 1000c, it only considers 800c towards your cap. However, it shouldn't account for all of it, and it's just an idea.

It's difficult to balance this, because any relief towards second-hand runners is a buff to self-delivering runners. Someone who acquires product for free/labor cost will enjoy an unneeded buff to their profits if they were to deliver it without hiring a second-hand runner, and that's not ideal.

By batko at Sep 28, 2023 4:44 AM
In terms of crate deliveries, how much you get paid is also partially dependent on your charisma.
By Slither at Oct 2, 2023 6:02 PM
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