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Standard crowd conduct

What is the standard conduct concerning noticing, interacting with, or looking at actual objects, inanimate or otherwise, within a crowd? How does a player know they can properly do anything regarding someone or something in a crowd? What are the steps that are taken prior to interaction?

I think this mostly comes down to personal preference. In a busy place like a bar, I choose where I'm going to have my character hang out. If there are other people in that area, I'll take note of one person usually and start to RP with them. I'll eaves drop around the place, and if something that's important to my character is said, I might choose to join the conversation. I tend to ignore most people though unless they're initiating on me first, but I also tend to not have issues with people interacting with my character.

Busy places like on the street, I'll take notice and interact with who I want without remorse. It's a roleplaying game. I'd rather not pass someone up just because there's a good chance that I'd reasonably not see them.

First off, I think this is a great question and its one i ask myself a lot, too. I've only been playing a few months and to be honest it hasn't been THAT long since i've stopped getting scolded for breaking the whole "You're never alone in the dome" syndrome we get when there's no pc's to rp with, but this ties into that a lot. How far is too far when obeying the "crowd logic" when it can really dampen or stifle rp? I've started placing myself somewhere recognizable in the crowd. If others do the same and are close by i call that rp fair game and no matter how i might -want- to interject i try to ignore the other conversations taking place away from my character. If there's only me and one other PC in the crowd i usually -try- to do something noticeable or wait for them to interact in some way then play off that. I've jumped into conversations from across the room, though, and i always feel really stupid for doing it after the fact.

What i want to expand on to this question is this: If people are at work in a club or a bar, (like my char) i tend to feel like that player has willingly become part of the ambience of the dome. We've taken on a supporting roll, as it were. We might be doing flashy things, but i don't think that ALL attention needs or even -should- be on us. Conversations should keep going, new rp should start up. There's no reason to stop everything because somebody wants to perform. If a character gets the urge and wants to participate with the performer that's great but i don't see it as an obligation. The performer, at that point, is part of the "crowd" but a part that can be interacted with if and when aPC wants to. So if someone makes a call or starts up a conversation, i cringe at the people that shoot them dirty looks or tell them to be quiet. Its a huge fucking crowd in a huge club...the performers are there as entertainment and ambience, its not a high school talent show.

My two chy

What is the standard conduct concerning noticing, interacting with, or looking at actual objects, inanimate or otherwise, within a crowd? How does a player know they can properly do anything regarding someone or something in a crowd?

Good question.

First thing, it is all of our jobs to RP our characters stats, be is Charisma, Intelligence, Artistry.. or Perception. So, RP appropriately. And as you correctly suggest, your PC is very rarely alone outside of their abode, ambiently or otherwise.

That said, as fluertygirl points out, we are all here to RP. So in my experience it is acceptable to take some liberty when, for example, our character spots the only other PC in a crowded bar.

What are the steps that are taken prior to interaction?

A major pet peeve of mine, something that breaks immersion for me, and I believe to be bad form is when my PC enters a public space and I am instantly interacted with. Within a public space I believe there should always be an amuse bouche, a posed glancing around the area, whatever. It may seem a formality, but it is an important one.

The way I look at it:

Those characters you see in a room are the most interesting, standout, people there. Be they PCs or NPCs. Why they standout can be incredibly varied. They could be standing out because of attributes of theirs or because of thoughts of yours.

Maybe an 'approach' social could be useful for those looking for something quick to give the other party a heads up? Johnny starts heading towards Slither.

Slither breaks into a run, heading flat out for the door.

There are certain places where I feel like interacting with a player the moment they enter a room is acceptable and many places where I feel like it is unacceptable.

I will give some examples.

Acceptable

- Someone walks into your cube. 100% acceptable to interact with them. In fact, probably time to pull out your weapon and attack them with murder in your eyes for their invasion of your personal space. Also, they are definitely there to kill you. (/Sarcasm)

- Hotel landings

- Dark Alleys

- Office / Workspace

- Locker room at New Rose

- Bathroom at New Rose

- Sense/Net

- You seeing a trend in some of these? They are rooms you CANNOT hide in, even if you try.

- The streets during a heavy weather event when basically everyone has ambiently gone inside or been murdered by hail / lightning.

- Spaces where the character obviously does not belong. If an Artery or someone rocking Sinner colors walks into the Snake base, they are going to stand out. It could even be a non-ganger that just obviously doesn't belong. Same goes for the HOJ.

- Mixers dressed as Mixers, Topside.

- Corpies dressed as corpies, Mixside.

- Most areas of the badlands

You should still, unless you are in fear for your life, look at a person before interacting with them. Take their @Look_place into account, their Condition and health messages. Their clothing. Is it covered in blood? Do they stink? Etc.

Unacceptable

This is a bit more difficult as it's quite subjective. If I walk into the Drome and someone walks in 2 seconds after me, an appropriate reaction could be to stop in the doorway, blocking anyone else from entering without side stepping me (via a pose).

Or to turn to head back outside and come face to face with XYZ character (again, via pose). Be careful as normal to not emote or pose another character's interaction with you. So it would be uncool to be like .grunt as John bumps into me on his way into the Drome. Unless you know John would be cool with it (or John posed that they were on a course to bump into you), and John being cool with it is subjective so probably best not to do it.

Equally as uncool is to ignore someone when they do something like .walk toward John intent on shoulder checking him. You don't need to have your CHARACTER notice the interaction, but you the PLAYER are being prompted for a response.

An appropriate response in that scenario (if your character noticed) would be .set my shoulders and .allow John to shoulder check me, putting some weight behind my own movement as it happens so he doesn't so much as budge me.

Another appropriate response if you the player notice but your character does not: .continue standing where I am, not noticing John approaching.

When I walk into the Drome (or any bar for that matter, and most streets where I notice players are hanging out) my PC or NPC is going to pose an 'entrance message' to let everyone know what's up with him and where he is at.

If you are going to do this it's best to 'emote loudly' first. In fact the first thing I do as a player when I walk into a room is emote loudly. Then I probably watch everyone in the room in case they are not emoting or speaking loudly and are not addressing me, so that I don't miss anything. You don't need to do this, if you don't think your character would be paying attention.

.step through the doorway of the Drome and .glance around. I .pause in the dim entryway for a few moments and then .step more fully into the room. I slowly make my way toward the bar, nodding to a group of gangers at a table by the entrance as I .pass.

That's the indicator for everyone in the room that I have arrived and they can take notice if they want. Another thing you may notice my character doing when you enter the Drome.

John is leaning against the bar, his body positioned toward the door and his eyes never straying far from it, even when engaged in conversation.

This is an IC indicator that my character is focused in that direction, looking for new arrivals. If you are sitting on a bar stool, facing away from the door, talking to three people, six drinks deep, on your phone, whilst at the same time using your Quickterm-- you aren't paying enough attention, regardless of how high your perception is, to notice someone arrive within 2 seconds of them walking through the door. It's just not happening.

I will straight up ignore people nodding to me, talking to me, waving to me, when I walk into a room, especially if I haven't even had a chance to pose an entrance message.

This is a roleplay game but roleplay isn't just talking to other characters. It's crafting a unique and compelling dialogue with the players that are controlling the other characters present, not just with their characters.

You talk to a player, and all the players in the room not with the to or say command but with your poses, emotes and spoofs. Contribute to the theme, to the crowdedness of the Mix or Topside, to the crowded ambience and atmosphere of the bar, or street, by telling your story and communicating what is happening with and to your character in a manner in which is themely.

It might be a little rough at first, but if you get the feeling that the other player or players thing you are ignoring them OOCly, you can always throw up something like:

.move through the bar, oblivious to anyone trying to make eye contact with him among the sea of unwashed bodies and the din of the pulsing bass from the speakers mounted around the bar.

Tell your story with your words, not just your character's speech. Show-- instead of always telling.

-- S

Meta Advice is Meta, wtf Slither?

"If you are going to do this it's best to 'emote loudly' first. In fact the first thing I do as a player when I walk into a room is emote loudly. Then I probably watch everyone in the room in case they are not emoting or speaking loudly and are not addressing me, so that I don't miss anything." NO NO NO NO. This is NOT how to use emote loudly, you're being an attention whore if you do this. Do I need to modify the emote via code so its OBVIOUSLY LOUD to get you to stop twinking out this way?

Use address, use watch or the TO command or simply a social (targeted at someone). Now I gotta start auditing use of speak and emote loudly because my long time peer gave such terrible advice.

The help file on on speaking has this to say about emoting / speaking loudly:

speak/emote softly - begin speaking at the normal 'person to person' volume

speak/emote loudly - begin speaking loud enough for a crowded room to hear

(note that speaking loud all the time is not a good idea)

We are discussing crowded rooms here. This seems entirely relevant and plausible for the situations I outlined. Crowded streets, crowded bars.

I'm not seeing what the issue is here.

As a follow up to this, when you speak loudly it already adds 'loudly' to the say messages you send.

It does not do this for emote / pose however.

I've always taken speak loudly as you want to be heard by everyone. I've used emote loudly to make sure that players can see your action, and then choose if their character wishes to react to it.

There are way to many times that newbies especially do not utilize the watch command simply because they do not know or understand it, despite the help files and tutorials and therefore miss out on RP or think they are standing in a crowded room with no one speaking to them.

Having to chain the following commands every time you enter a room is cumbersome:

address first shrouded (not even sure this works)

address persona

address personb

address personc

address persond

address myhandsaregettingtiredjusttypingthis

Also worth noting pose will automatically address anyone included in the pose message, emote will note.

If it were possible to do address all or address /all that would be another story-- however, it is not.

I'm discussing situations where you want everyone to be able to see/hear/watch the emotes/poses/speaking you are doing. If you do not wish that to be the case, do not emote loudly.

A debate is being had behind the scenes about this. Will update this thread when we have a resolution.

So! We've discussed and we are going to make some code changes that will empower better awesomeness when it comes to this stuff. We've hashed out most of the details and the code changes will also allow us to make some cool stuff along with improvements to the overall scheme here.

For now, treat emoting loudly as you being loud and use it at your discretion. There will be a new thread (or perhaps an update to this one) when it's done.

As for the rest of my post-- that stands. Treat crowds in a themely manner.

Let's continue the original discussion. Thoughts on the other stuff I mentioned?

I agree with everything you said that was not purged by the Johnnynquisition.

I emote loudly the moment I'm traveling with someone from room to room. Why? Because travel RP is ridiculously stupid because of ambient noise levels. If someone is following me, they should be paying enough attention to me to see what the heck I'm doing. But it doesn't. So I emote loudly. I will cry if emote loudly is changed because it's the only way to reasonably RP between noisy rooms.

Lies!

This is the verb that returns whose paying attention to someone

Generic Room:paying_attention_to

#534:paying_attention_to this none this

6: if ($set_utils:intersection($ou:ancestors(x), {$guest, $bit}))

7: near = setadd(near, x);

8: elseif (x in `player.followers ! E_PROPNF => {}')

9: near = setadd(near, x);

10: elseif (x in `player.conversations ! E_PROPNF => {}'

An update as promised:

emote loudly now makes what you say bright, causing it to stand out.

address /all is now a thing

unaddress /all is now a thing

It will not take into account hidden people. Hidden people are left to their own devices unless you have spotted them.

"First thing, it is all of our jobs to RP our characters stats, be is Charisma, Intelligence, Artistry.. or Perception. So, RP appropriately."

I can know the difference between my level and another character's level, if there is an objective mechanical test.

There is no objective mechanical test for noticing a non-hidden person or thing in a room.

I cannot know if I can notice someone or something based upon mechanical attributes alone.

What I'm trying to get across here is that it is not possible to roleplay your stats/skills in an absolute and objective manner without reference, because you do not know others' levels without some sort of test. This is why coded interaction exists. You can with confidence roleplay them in a relative manner, such as: "I know I put more UE into dancing than boxing, so clearly I am better at dancing than boxing, within myself." However, am I better at dancing than Alice, or Bob? I do not know, short of an objective test. It is not realistic to play as if you are better or worse or equal than another in some area without knowing for certain via an objective test.

Following from this, I believe it would be based upon the subjective interpretation of: crowdedness of the room vs. how much attention the character is trying to draw to themselves in a non-mechanical nature (flashy look_place, loudness) vs. whether the player will play their character as noticing. All up in the air, perhaps.

If I'm incorrect in any of my observations, please show me how.

There is no objective mechanical test for noticing a non-hidden person or thing in a room.

...

What I'm trying to get across here is that it is not possible to roleplay your stats/skills in an absolute and objective manner without reference, because you do not know others' levels without some sort of test.

This is intentional.

I very much like Johnny's reasoning that your character is seeing the most interesting people, things, that stand out.

You are correct that it is subjective. It is correct that your character will notice PCs/corpses/whatever is special per Johnny above. At the same time, you have the option to RP that you do not, for whatever reason, not notice these things. Maybe your character is fucked up on LNA and cannot be bothered. Maybe they are wearing something that reduces their perception to a level you think that they may not notice.

Or maybe you believe that due to the crowdedness of the street or the fact that corpses are not a rarity on the streets of Red, such things have become background noise to your character.

What is not subjective is that each of us needs to take into account each others RP or potential RP. If I walk into the Drome and am posing still being in the door, and you are over at the bar-- objectively you see my character. That doesn't mean it's not a bit meta to interact with him or her at that moment.

It's obvious from how I've framed the entrance message that I've only just arrived in the room's outskirts and that I haven't yet positioned the character in a place where he/she would be readily visible unless you've positioned yourself so you have a clear view of the door, something I would recommend you do ICly via a pose or emote, if you want to take that approach-- and then include it in your look_place (keeping in mind sitting blocks your look_place from being visible).

We are all responsible for maintaining the theme. Keep that kind of thing in mind and give each other a chance to do/say/pose something cool, interesting, compelling, descriptive.

On top of that, when someone does something like the above-- roll with it. Try to pose/emote something back-- even if it's just posing that your character doesn't notice XYZ walk in. That's just an entertaining and just as good RP as noticing someone and interacting with them via your character speaking with them.