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Gun changes?
and additions

Ok, since we all know that guns are a bit on the screwy side, I thought we should discuss them. Why? Becuase I'm bored and I thought this would be interesting.

First off, I am in no way a gun expert, so be easy on me if I make an incorrect statement.

Now, the MK-23. Over powered. All the other guns-Underpowered (except the Seburo)

After doing some research on ammo's, based on their muzzle rate and energy, I have concluded that gun damage should probably be re-worked to the following from Weakest to strongest;

6mm>.380>9mm>.45/11mm>10mm>.357>13mm

Also, I'd to propose the introduction of the .40S&W, .44magnum, and .50AE guns! (*Wants a Desert Eagle*)


Anyways here is something to base all of this off of so you know I'm not just makeing shit up:http://world.guns.ru/ammo/am02-e.htm

Discuss.

I agree, I certainly wouldn't mind it being switched up a bit, and yeah...Mk23 hurts -alot-.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a Desert Eagle..

I'm not sure exactly how you guys decide mk23-s are overpowered not to mention, why should guns that cost in excess of 100k+ be nerfed?

Katanas as an example, in my experience, fuck you up alot quicker then MK23-s's do.

Anybody I can kill with mk23-s's, I can kill with 10mm Autopistols.

Enforcers also hurt, let's nerf them also.

I mean c'mon, we've got the argument that it hurts me, so nerf it.

Quote: from Lujan on 2:19 am on Sep. 30, 2006[br]I'm not sure exactly how you guys decide mk23-s are overpowered not to mention, why should guns that cost in excess of 100k+ be nerfed?

Katanas as an example, in my experience, fuck you up alot quicker then MK23-s's do.

Anybody I can kill with mk23-s's, I can kill with 10mm Autopistols.

Enforcers also hurt, let's nerf them also.

I mean c'mon, we've got the argument that it hurts me, so nerf it.

Paranoid much?

Then use the autopistol. I'm just trying to add to the discussion that has been going on about pistols.
This is isn't SD Against Lujan discussion

Obviously it's not a discussion directed at me, I'm just saying, at higher levels, the levels of damage on high grade pistols and other weaponry needs to be similar or you end up with someone taking an absolute ripping even if having weaponry of a comparable value.

Obviously street prices would change to match the power of the pistol.


The way I see it, if you have high enough skillz, it shouldn't matter what pistol you use, you should still fuck em up regardless. It's just that a .45 Being the shit all end all of pistols, especially in 2091, doesn't make much if any since at all.

Neither does taking 8 bullets.
To the head.
Without dying.
Or range not having any impact on the weapon you're using.

I gotta say I agree with that..I mean sure energy weapons aren't allowed, but there has -got- to be some kickass magnetic rod launching guns...and maybe handguns that fire kinetic waves, or sound...somethin  kickass sounding if not just being kickass.

Kickass

Quote: from Lujan on 2:33 am on Sep. 30, 2006[br]Neither does taking 8 bullets.
To the head.
Without dying.
Or range not having any impact on the weapon you're using.


Who the hell has taken 8 bullets to the head without getting killed?

They get mad bragging rights then :p

Geriks taken close to that before. (not sure of the exact number) (and not necessarily to the head)
He's also done a number of others things which would purely not be possible out in the real world.

Ok, but what Gerik can and cannot do(an oldie of badass stat status) has really no bearing on how much damage guns should do.

The message I was trying to convey to be discussed, is that the power of guns is outta whack, yo, and the .45 is overpowered to teh max0r.

(Edited by Biohazard at 2:43 am on Sep. 30, 2006)

I'm thinkin somehow...energy weapons should still be made available to the player...just...not very many.  Cost could be determined by availability outside.  I mean if people allover have laser pistols outside the city, they'd be easy to obtain and smuggle in... so not that expensive, just uber illegal..cd on first offense :D

Quote: from Damarung on 2:44 am on Sep. 30, 2006[br]I'm thinkin somehow...energy weapons should still be made available to the player...just...not very many. �Cost could be determined by availability outside. �I mean if people allover have laser pistols outside the city, they'd be easy to obtain and smuggle in... so not that expensive, just uber illegal..cd on first offense :D

Personally I think that's just getting a little to star trekkie. I like to stick to bullet fireing weapons for now.

If you could prove that the damage was out of whack with what high level katanas do - then I'd be inclined to agree - composite katanas, as an example (What I consider equivalent) are -far- stronger, so a comparison can't really be drawn for 'nerf'ing .45s I don't think.

EDIT: The last time I saw a composite katana which given, was a couple of months ago so things -might- have changed since then, but an admin would have to comment on that to give it any weight I'd think.

(Edited by Lujan at 2:47 am on Sep. 30, 2006)

Quote: from Lujan on 2:46 am on Sep. 30, 2006[br]If you could prove that the damage was out of whack with what high level katanas do - then I'd be inclined to agree - composite katanas, as an example (What I consider equivalent) are -far- stronger, so a comparison can't really be drawn for 'nerf'ing .45s I don't think.


But Lujan, the .45 is not as strong as it is(the point), and I do believe that Katana's have allready taken a huge hit. Swords and guns can't really be compared.

I don't think I said anythin bout Klingons or whatever they are.  I said lasers, we got em now, we should have em by 2091, even better, we should be able to have all sorts of shit.  And at -some- minimal scale, it should be in SD.  Adding them, would put a few of the useless skill sets to use and a little more diversity could be added.

For balance issues in combat, they need to be considered equal.
And I've no problem with figures being re-jigged, but I don't want to go from having the best pistols in the game, to the second worst, or something like that, it'd make no sense RP-wise for me to even be using them unless necessary.

Example: If the mk23-s wasn't the best pistol in the game, I had to do something to get one a while back, I would have asked for a different pistol, if that was a better one.

Admittedly, the messages for the Mk23-s do bloody rock though.

I tend to agree.

Keep the lasers outside of the dome..they're just not...gritty enough.

Some people don't do gritty, some people want clean, efficient, silent...  Fuck gritty, if I want a laser, I should be able to smuggle a damn laser if I can figure out how.  That's all I'm sayin.

Well, maybe Gerik likes the .45? I'm not gonna get into talk about who wants to win Sindome. Your character should rp useing a gun they like, or maybe they -think- will cause the most damage, not becuase it has "teh best of teh statz lolz". No seriously.

And as posted before, the people you can kill with an MK, you can kill with the auto, so what's the big deal?

Lasers...plasma-casters...how bout plasma, the whole sci-fi Cyber-punk shebang, and where the hell are my implants...?

Agreed, I probably still would use an mk23-s regardless of its damage, since well, the messages on it bloody rock.

I  just don't think you should just rebalance one side of combat without regard for the rest of it.

That's a good point, Lujan. Howeverm I believe the scales have allready been tipped to favor the pistol users (and I am not complaining about that, becuase if you know whom my characters have been, you know they've allwayse used firearms). But what about people who use melee weapons such as baseball bats and batons? Or fight with their fist? The best weapons in those catagories certainly shouldn't be equal to a Ceramic composite katana or an MK-23.

well, you know what they say

Guns for show, knives for a pro


Quote: from InsaneRadical on 3:59 pm on Sep. 30, 2006[br]well, you know what they say

Guns for show, knives for a pro

Soap said that in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

Soap is one of the four kids who repeatedly get the shit kicked out of them and run around like headless chickens because some card shark threatens to have his goon lop their fingers off.

Thus, considering the source, I wouldn't take that advice to heart - that'd be like going to Elmer Fudd for rabbit hunting tips.

There's alot more to SD then combat.

Someone's always not gonna be happy with in-game "balancing". If you can't see behind the curtain: how can you know what needs to be done?

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 4:40 pm on Oct. 3, 2006[br]There's alot more to SD then combat.

Someone's always not gonna be happy with in-game "balancing". If you can't see behind the curtain: how can you know what needs to be done?

There is alot more to SD then combat, this topic just happens to be about combat, though.

To add to the discussion:

All weapons are being ballanced. We just started with the firearms because that's where the most imbalance is/was.

Next down the list are the melee weapons.

Then it is unarmed/brawling/martial arts. And yes it's last as there is a lot to code there.

Still holding out for my $100,000 laser gun.

Quote: from Damarung on 9:16 pm on Oct. 3, 2006[br]Still holding out for my $100,000 laser gun.

I believe there is an IC reason as to why you can't get one.

Icly it's because their highly illegal.  Icly so are regular guns but we see -tons- of those.  It only makes sense that -some-friggin-body- would have an energy weapon.  I refuse to budge on zis...I've used lasers alot as a reference but energy weapons in general is part of that whole 'technology vs. soul' thing that's present in damn near anything CP...so again, where is my laser gun?

Normal firearms are illegal in Withmore City.

Plasma-based weapons, and presumably laser weapons too, are illegal GLOBALLY.

Yerr.

Mmm...globally huh..I musta missed that.  But clone offshoots and genetic manipulation are also supposed to be globally illegal but we still hear bout that on a daily basis *winks*.  Again, laser, now *cackles madly*

*smiles at all of you*  So, where's my atom-smashing bolt rifle?

Ok, the joke is dead now.

Nah, joking aside.  I'd like to see something along those lines once or twice.

Yeah, umm, no. No energy weapons on earth, ever.

You've got your out though, we just have to build space. :D

Dang...

This thread sucks. I hate you all. Go here.

(Edited by ReeferMadness at 4:52 pm on Feb. 21, 2008)