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Thermos and hiding
something that I've thought about for awhile

Ok, so you look around nobody's there.  Slap some thermos on to make sure, and oh shit, there is someone there.  take them off but you still can't see them, sometimes even if you search.  I think if you wear thermos you should be able to identify the person.  kind of like <pointout>.

How do you know that heat signature is a human? It could be a rat in the walls. Or a heating pipe. Or a steaming pile of urine that has freshly been peed on a wall...

That being said, thermos do need some work still.

You've obviously never used thermos IRL.

Nope, only seen them used to blow up civilians on CNN.

You are correct, you should be able to distinguish between humanoid and non-humanoids.

We will have to impliment a proper system that takes into account ambient populations in places like bars, streets, and busy areas like markets and mag-lev stations. I would imagine that thermo optic goggles would be pretty useless on a teaming street or in the Drome, where there is usually at least a few people kicking about. I suppose it would be able to show that there were 15 people in the room, then when you took them off if you only counted 14 people, you could infer that someone was hidden in there, then use the optic goggles to try to find where that person is hiding. Always got to remember those ambient people, that 65 million in the dome. That's why we have those little messages that tell you all about what the masses are doing when you walk about. They show up in gold text.

Mmm, yes, I should add some handling for ambience in the thermos. That'll make the combat nuts second guess everything. Ofcourse, the more extreme will whine that I've 'killed' the thermo goggles. Stat whores can go fuck themselves though, so whatever.

Real roleplayers always appreciate more ambience :)

I actuly thought they all ready had something like that..

The bright yellow enviroment or something.  The way I see it,  if its an area that has hundreds of people (IE: The market)  The body heat signatures and stuff you see would all meld together making it imposible to really pick -anything- out..  I actuly figured that was the way it was already.

No, No, No.  I mean Yes, ambient, but Thermos are not nearly as non-spcific as everyone seems to think even now-a- days anyone within a block or so of you would be relatively distinct in thermos.  Now ifyou do like alot of people have told me in various situations and add 80 years of technology than I'd imagine that they would be all but crystal clear.

Hmm..  in every instance I've tried..  when I didn't see someone..  and I put on the thermo goggles and saw someone..  when I took them off, I could still see them..

Hrmm..  ponderous.

I think it would be great if there was a button to turn the thermos off without removing them (for civilian goggles) the way the WJF helmets work.

Deactivate thermo.

Here is another idea for thermos.  

What if you could do something like 'look w with thermo'  or 'peer w with thermo' or 'scan w with thermo'.

And depending on the ambient population in that area, you could pick up life signs?  Like..

Say your in Westinghaus and you want to know what apartment someone you've been chasing just ran into.. you know its on the first floor.. so you do something like..

'scan w with thermos'

and it tells you something like

'You can see what appears to be two heat signatures to the north."

Is it IC for thermos to be able to see through walls?  I think it would be a cool addition if they could.

Yeah, it would be cool to use thermos for walls.

Of course, Nemisis would see things from the point of view of chasing someone, but the other use would be to see if someone is lurking outside of your door. :)

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 11:43 pm on Aug. 10, 2006)

Hahahah, touche.

Quote: from Aikao on 9:49 pm on Sep. 2, 2004[br]Hmm.. �in every instance I've tried.. �when I didn't see someone.. �and I put on the thermo goggles and saw someone.. �when I took them off, I could still see them..

I don't even get that.  Think they've become wonky as of late.

Do thermos properly identify people? I've been getting mixed signal which have led me to have little faith in the current code. If someone's hidden, I would like to see them and be able to address them appropriately.

I also think we need more 'thermo' descs...does everything really look identical with thermos? To the point where thermos would actually have seperate descs for different rooms. Different players wouldn't be strictly refered to as humanoids but perhaps by a desc similiar to short_desc.

It's all about perspective and I think this is one that's fundamentally lacking.

On a sidenote, alot of good points are made on this thread. Please take the time to read them. For instant, thermographic goggles are terrible for their price. They don't toggle...they have a shitty desc...etc.

I know I just suggested a shitload of work be done both codewise and creatively...but if someone will code it, I'll come up with the descs and such. :)

Any object in game already supports a unique temperature description. Just takes someone to actually set all 5000 of them.

Could you group sort a good deal of them? By associating them with parents and similiar objects?

Katanas, pistol, rifle...etc.

Helmets, flak jackets, pants, etc.

I was more going for room descs and humanoid descs.

It's still an incredible undertaking. There are just under 5000 unique locations (not counting dynamics, mind you) and probably over 200 'classes' of objects, easily.

I need GMs with time.

Perhaps you need to (1) allow thermo to overlay with visual display. Use visual descriptions and etcetera  for now. Anytime you spot something or someone hidden it appears as 'a heat discrepancy reveals [what you would normally see if they weren't hidden]. This would be a great temporary solution to make themo useful. (2) You could give trusted people an in game command to set the descriptions. An open source / wiki approach. Or (3) recruit more GMs.

1.) No, there is an established game mechanic going back years for these.

2.) Even trusted peoples work must be validated (see also scripts breaking and room description typo fixers redesigning rooms)

3.) I've BEEN, none of you seem interested.

Quote: from ReeferMadness on 2:17 pm on Feb. 9, 2009[br]Do thermos properly identify people? I've been getting mixed signal which have led me to have little faith in the current code. If someone's hidden, I would like to see them and be able to address them appropriately.

The thermo's I have IRL will give you either a solid white or black view of whoever you are looking at. You see them pretty damn good and you can pick out alot of shit about them, but good look trying to see someones face or other major features.

Thermos don't work. End of story.

If commercial grade thermal imagery today looks like...
I assume in the future the resolution will be even better. �Superimpose an optical lens image with an IR lens image and I'd imagine you'd be able to pick people out rather nicely.

When I think of thermo-optical gear of the future, I'm reminded of that scene in the original Ghost In The Shell where the supposed puppet master is fleeing Section 9 through a heavily crowded market. Everything shows up white hot, so the gear switches over to motion tracking and corollates what isn't showing up on heat with that movement. Bateau had some damned good cybereyes.

Quote: from Cryer on 4:18 pm on Feb. 11, 2009[br]If commercial grade thermal imagery today looks like...
I assume in the future the resolution will be even better. �Superimpose an optical lens image with an IR lens image and I'd imagine you'd be able to pick people out rather nicely.

That actually is alot better then the shit they issue us here.

dude, look at the same guy's face from 10-15 feet away and I guarntee it won't be nearly as detalied.   Bio brings up another good question.  Should we assume that the 1 set of goggles avaliable in game is the absolutely best technology of the day?   maybe the worst?  but I'm guessing somewhere in between.     The resolution thing is alot of gray area IMHO.   HIGHLY dependent on how far you are away from said object.

And if you're in a small, well lit, room that might be less than 15x15 and you're stealth and thermos won't pick you up, then ICly you have no business using your cloak or spell of invisibility in that manner. I eagerly look forward to a revamp to the stealth ability to reflect realistic usage.


I don't believe it makes sense for people to pretend to be random inanimate objects like bookshelves or rolling barrels like in Metal gear solid.


You will now see more detail on humans when using thermos. The awesome new short description code gives us a useful value to work with, letting you see very basic attributes about who you might be seeing.

No changes have been made to the underlying skill usage.

Gee it would be great if this worked with thermographic cameras!
Cause right now, for 10k+, you too can learn that there were once 2 bright blobs in a room and there are not 3 bright blobs! One of which may, or may not, be a park dog.

What about well lit rooms? �Or say if your packing a flare?? MMM?

(Edited by Jotun at 9:31 pm on Aug. 23, 2010)

Well, Jotun, hopefully you are not packing a LIT, and therefor head-producing, flare.

Although I bet it's happened.