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- BitLittle 1h
- Baphomei 10s
- Bruhlicious 8h Deine Mutter stinkt nach Erbrochenem und Bier.
- Komira 2m
a Mench 8h Doing a bit of everything.
And 22 more hiding and/or disguised
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[Dec '23] Improvements Feedback
Feedback thread for December 2023

Please capture any feedback on Improvements from this month here.
The 'how's business' scripting with bartenders doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with a Mix bar and a bartender complaining that people aren't coming around much anymore because it's been slow an hour. Feels like reporting that predates the watch/address feedback updates and places getting permanently flagged as crowded.

Not to be too negative about it but I can't say I really like any of the LLM-driven NPC responses compared to the old handwritten BabbleOn scripting. They're quite slow which makes them feel even more NPC-y, many of them don't sound particularly correct to the characters (NPCs suddenly talking like Cockney croupiers or Jersey gun molls), and despite how long they take to generate they all end up being pretty much the same sentences anyway with minor changes to the (excessively added) filler words.

The old script wasn't written with babble-on, all this does is provide a rewriting of the same old answer, in a different way that fits the facts of the NPCs. Sometimes, the NPCs aren't facted well enough and they don't portray them accurately, but it gets fixed as we get them.

This is using GPT-3.5, with plans to at some point move to GPT-4 in the future which should improve answers more.

They're not replacements for GMs! Simply providing a slightly more context-aware way of saying things; it also reacts based on the way the question is asked.

Possibly true!

Though it has been my experience through testing, that the ability of GPT to emulate speech or prose, in naturalistic and differing ways, degrades very quickly where a large percentage of the output is pre-defined and factual (ie. a list of specific drinks constituting most of a sentence). This is, from what I've read how the LLM is trained, a fundamental limitation of the technology because it cannot adequately hallucinate when it must be specific or factual. It might be that hand-written responses are superior in cases where very specific information (like where players are clustered, or what items are for sale) is the primary thing being conveyed, and the LLM better in instances where what is precisely said is not so important.

I'm not sure how I feel about the changes to helmets and pathogens.

In terms of avoiding exposure to airborne pathogens and weaponry, a fully outfitted environmental suit should be required. Or as stated Chrome Magic. In the real world, significant preparation happens if something like deadly airborne diseases (or worse weaponized chemicals) is expected to be encountered, and shouldn't be any different here.

I feel the rarity, danger and risk of utilizing weapons like these should not be cancelled out by simply wearing a motorcycle helmet.

Also, if you're wearing gear because you expect a chemical gas attack, you should be dressed in gear that everyone will know you're expecting a chemical gas attack. Not just brooding at the bar in the corner.

Just my thoughts.

Motorcycle helmets are not airtight in this game. Previously, an environmental suit of armor that is airtight in all but the gloves, because there are no airtight gloves, was prone to gas attacks despite wearing an airtight helmet that specifically describes locking into place with suction to seal your head from the outside.

I half agree with Risikio's point here. There's a difference between wearing a gas mask for tear gas, and the kind of protection you'd need for aerosolised ebola.
As far as my memory goes, all the helmets that are flagged as airtight are ones you'd expect (from description, form, or action) to be able to protect from chemical attacks.
I read something wrong and must have misremembered the motorcycle helmets being airtight.

Thank you for the clarifications.

Despite the "bartender GPT improvements", they are still incredibly slow. Having to wait 10-20 minutes just for a single response isn't acceptable in my opinion. For something like asking about the chatter, this turns something that used to take a few minutes into something that takes possibly an hour. It seems to be getting slower and slower over time. At this point I'd rather not have it at all.
Don't know where else to put this-- thank you for promptly fixing skinwatches! Awesome new feature.
@Emily That sounds like a bug. Or that GPT itself is having an outage. It should definitely not take 20-30 minutes. I'm not sure if that is an exaggeration or not-- because the request itself would timeout after 1 minute, and the MOO should time the task out if it suspends for too long, so something seems wonky there. Could you submit a bug if you haven't already?

I just tested it myself and it took 15-20 seconds, which seems like a realistic amount of time for someone to respond while doing their job as a bartender. Did you mean seconds?

(Edited by Slither at 9:58 am on 1/1/2024)

Sure, I can do a little bit more looking at it to make sure I wasn't just missing something and I'll submit a bug.
The GPT responses seem to be working fine at the moment. Sorry if my original post was a bit rude, I was kinda upset. It's possible that my character just never heard what the bartender said. I do think it would be a good change if the bartenders said their response directly to the person when asked about chatter/rumors, or if they just said it loudly so everyone can hear.
Perhaps give a quick message after a GPT backed NPC is asked a valid question right before doing whatever GPT magic then give the response. Something like:

You say to the bartender, "Where's the party at?"

The bartender says to you before continuing to help another customer, "Give me a second."

Having finished with the other customer the bartender turns to you.

The bartender says, "A GPT massaged message."

That way people know the NPC heard them. If you get a bunch of NPC responses in mere moments then one suddenly takes 15-25 seconds, I could easily see players wondering if there's a problem. I know I wondered!

Could be done in a variety of ways of course. I just think that a few extra bits added to the process could help improve the overall experience, however it looks.