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Charisma and You
Some people seem to look to beautiful

I have noticed a strange trend.

When I started my current character I made sure to play to my Charisma stats. So he wasn't as attractive as he is now. As his Charisma grew so did his changes of looking more handsome. When he hit attractive he changed to more Adonis like body and looks.

What bothers me is people who don't have the Charisma to back up their looks yet looking amazing. And I'm like huh? How is this happening? I seriously believe that a person who does not have the Charisma should be looking amazing. Specially iut of chargen. I can apply this to any stat. But its the descriptions that kills the immersion for me.

Charisma isn't just looks.

This isn't any of our business.

People should play to their stats but that's not our job to police.

The way I've always interpreted low-charisma, but ridiculously gorgeous in description: you can be as physically attractive as you want to be, but there's something disgusting about the way you carry yourself, dress, or a certain vibe you get off. Or, you can be gorgeous, but you have no magnetism or presence. I don't know. That's generally how I played it lately.

plus you smell

Yeah, you reek, chummer. Go take a bath.

Or you end every sentence on an upwards inflection? Like it's a question?

Charisma :a special charm or appeal that causes people to feel attracted and excited by someone (such as a politician)

And, as we all know, politicians can be some darned ugly people. Charisma isn't entirely looks. It could involve speech, mannerisms, attitude.

and smell

Definitely right on about it not being strictly equal to apperance. I actually RP a character that I describe / RP as having relatively average looks, though that char's personality / charisma are very lacking and cold, yet I had to pump UE into the actual Charisma stat because my char. isn't 'ugly'. I don't think it's appropriate for CHA to affect short desc the way it currently does.

Charisma isn't just looks.

This isn't any of our business.

People should play to their stats but that's not our job to police.

I disagree. Because even the description states clearly:

A deformed fellow (clearly very ugly)

An ugly fellow (pretty ugly)

A fellow (average looks)

A good looking fellow (starting to look good)

An attractive fellow (a better looking person)

... Etc.

The descriptors themselves tell us how ugly or pretty they are.

that's a really good point (im not a fan of them affecting the shortdesc because of this)

I write it off as a measurement of your overall appearance, demeanor, presence, attitude, mannerisms, (insert everything else), rolled up into one.

Yes, and *you* can roleplay accordingly.

Charisma is a weird stat, in some ways, because it's a hugely subjective thing.

But when it comes to description, it's probably better if your descriptions, nakeds and other messages are neutral and matter-of-factly, avoiding both positive and negative adjectives, where possible.

Your character can react according to what your character perceives.

Conceit is something someone else might be roleplaying.

If your character doesn't find that the person is as hot as they think they are, react ICly.

I don't disagree that people should RP their stats, but what you might be experiencing or witnessing might have an IC explanation and might not have to be treated as metagaming.

Also why's this your business?

That is to say, the coded descriptions, like the shortdesc, should play to the stats, but the RP descriptors, like @nakeds, should be matter-of-factly.

I totally understand where you're coming from, Vetra, with the "mind your business statement", but it sort of stops being your business when you're going to be getting involved with said character and all of this comes into play. Maybe OP needed clarification on -- I don't know. This is why I don't post in threads. I lose my thought processes and feel intimidated real quickly.

He said it breaks his immersion, and I see why it does. That's all anyone needs to know about whose business it is.

The 'why's this your business' was aimed at the OP, Napoleon.

They're bringing up OOCly something which has a perfectly IC way of handling it.

+1. If you disagree with the character's presentation of themselves in the longdesc, that's an IC reaction to the sense that the character is conceited and carries themselves like someone who's more appealing and attractive than they really are to you. Play it off the tee, don't make it someone else's problem when they may have a perfectly good IC justification. JMHO.

Point taken.

You aren't physically changing with your Charisma stat.

Has anyone seen the pictures of bums getting their beards shaved, hair cut, and a new pair of clothes for free? Some of them ended up being incredibly fricking handsome.

Charisma isn't just how you carry yourself or your appearance, it's how you use what you have to become better lookin'.

yo yo yo yo yo deep breaths smoke weed slow the roll

discussions like this are important cause they help us all get on the same page w/r/t how we perceive this crazy world and the way it's coded. i think it's fine to express confusion about handwaving over something that has a coded analogue (people not writing their descriptions to reflect their shortdescs).

me i like to make sure my @nakeds are neutrally phrased but i also get unreasonably irritated by purple prose so there's that.

You aren't physically changing with your Charisma stat.

True.

Although, physically changing can be an IC justification for upping your charisma stat.

@Vetra

It totally breaks immersion for me. The person have an average or even ugly but their descriptions are amazing looking. How is this good RP? I mean it totally feels out of place. When I had characters with average looks and a bit of Charisma I played it off due to the fact that Charisma covers the Appearance sub stat. So past characters had average descriptions to go with their Charisma. But all right if people feel ita not important then I will just treat it ICly...

However I have seen how Admin crack on Artistry. Charisma covers Appearance. So I am unsure why they are not more cracking on people who describe themselves as looking totally hot. When they don't have the stats for it. And that breaks RP for me.

I'm just going to clarify and say for the last time I think it's nonsense that I have to spend UE on CHA, on a character that has zero social chemistry with anyone, just because some automated codebit will tell every person in every interaction that said character is 'ugly'. This is the problem with CHA = appearance. You can be cold, clean cut professional, and have the social grace of a goat and be drop-dead gorgeous.

my character is actually a goat someone shaved and put lipstick on

Plus I thought we had to be more realistic. So people out of chargen can't be super assassins or super crack shots. There is even a tip thread about this. How not to roleplay like this because your coded stats don't reflect it.

Then why are they super hot? Beats me.

It's definitely bad form, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I don't think it's something that needs policed, either.

Though it would be hilarious to see staff trying to decide if someone is too hot for their description.

Mattheu, you're too hot for your description. I saw! I saw! You're too hot! Write yourself to be uglier!

I'm just going to clarify and say for the last time I think it's nonsense that I have to spend UE on CHA, on a character that has zero social chemistry with anyone, just because some automated codebit will tell every person in every interaction that said character is 'ugly'. This is the problem with CHA = appearance. You can be cold, clean cut professional, and have the social grace of a goat and be drop-dead gorgeous.

I can bring the subject if how there is a thread on not coming out of chargen being some super assassin or super thief or super genius because you don't have the coded stats to reflect this. Why is Charisma different if even the short descriptors rule how you look but you make your description look amazingly hot. Huh? How does that work?

Seems like everyone is more or less agreeing on the same problem. Characters absolutely should be able to be 'super hot' out of char-gen. 'super hot' isn't necessarily a skill or something you improve at over time. There are ceilings and floors to that kind of thing, and tying it into CHA is just asking for the kind of confusion IssacF is talking about. CHA is less being handsome, say, than being -suave-. It's reductive and problematic in its current state. *rages, waves hands in the air*

If you're improving your physique in your description because your charisma descriptor is changing you're guilty of doing what you're complaining about other people doing. Unless your strength and endurance are pretty high you have no business being physically sculpted if you're going to complain about attractive descriptions without high charisma.

ive seen corporate characters get future lipo or muscle implants or whatever, in real life you can be jacked but not strong -- most bodybuilders aren't as physically strong as someone with some girdle fat and wire going on

@Cerberus

My character's description is more like a Bruce Lee body. Not a mucle building body. I'm not going to post Ic info but take a look at my nakeds. It's not the body of a muscle builder. It's a lithe sinewy muscular build. Which my stats are coded for that. And even then most are still in 'process'.

I think part of the problem here might be the interplay with substats.

That's not to say that substats are a problem, or even no direct access to them, but there seems like there's some puzzle piece missing somewhere in the substat puzzle.

ive seen corporate characters get future lipo or muscle implants or whatever, in real life you can be jacked but not strong -- most bodybuilders aren't as physically strong as someone with some girdle fat and wire going on

I have met people in the Army who had scultural looking bodies muscle wise and had no strength to do the PT test. I on the other hand had a lither sinewy muscular build and disn't look as strong. Yet I could put in more then 70% on my PT test.

Case in point a person may look physically muscular but have no real strength.

Due to the exciting Charisma topic, a good point was brought up. Charisma and Appearance -should- simply be separate stats. You can be as butt ugly as the underside of a dead walrus but damn do you have a smooth and convincing voice. You're hot as hell but cold as a frozen mammoth. I'll just look from afar, ice princes

I can see this being much more realistic.

For reference...

Charisma (CHR)

a persons general appearance and like-ability.

Appearance (APR) is a look, be it low like a street

urchin or high like a CEO of a corp.

Charm (CHM) defines how a character gets along with

others.

Will chip in on this - I have tried to (maybe a bit too obviously) point GMs towards using my CHR stats in a bit of RP. Not entirely sure if it did anything. Will leave that to the GMs involved to comment on, if they so choose.

As far as I can tell, only coded CHR uses are for trading and shortdesc. Probably a few more I don't know about. Players can't check each others' CHR stats out (as far as I can tell) so if you spray yourself in cologne and RP being super smooth...you get better results than someone who can't RP charmingly .

GMs, how do you/when do you check this stat for RP? How do you see it being used in the future?

CHR isn't visible to other players, but APR is, as it's what defines the shortdesc (deformed, ugly, average, good-looking, attractive, winsome, etc).

Also all of it is used by staff in PC - NPC interactions... negotiations, interviews, etc.

Actually I was just wondering this the other day.. Stats wise, CHA has 'levels' like everything else. In my case, my CHA says 'Attractive' but my description does not say I am "An attractive so-and-so" or even "A good-looking so-and-so".

During rampage I put like a billion points into CHA just to see how high I would have to raise it before anything changed.. and.. uh. Nothing ever did.. I was always "A -descriptive adjective- so-and-so" no matter how high it went.

So I started to wonder if there was something else going on that impacted how that even works.. are some things more notable than being hot when descriptions are tabulated?

It won't update until you change your shortdesc.

You have to do something to have your shortdesc regenerated, like taking off or putting on clothes. And having a Charisma level of 'Attractive' doesn't mean APR is high enough to get the attractive shortdesc. :)

Its just hard to tell how to write my nakeds yo. Sexiness is all subjective and shit, but my stats say "you attractive!" and my description is all "naw you average or something." and I'm all..."fug it imma write some stuff or summin."

I think beauty is subjective. I have known people that look at one person and go 'I'd drop my pants for them' And yet when I see that same person I am like.... and I'll need a 16 rack and the lights off to do anything with them.

If someone writes a description and you think that description is 'super hot' then you OOCly think that person could be attractive perhaps. Does this mean your -character- does? Well that is where you have to make a choice, which could be based on if they have 'ugly' in their shortdesc. You character could even have a hot as hell description of their own but still think they themselves are ugly.

Attractiveness and physical appeal is such a convoluted topic that really, it doesn't need to be touched. CHA as I have seen so far in the game is your ability to sway people to your side and thoughts and actions, you don't need to be physically attractive to do this, though it can help in certain cases (and it can also harm your efforts in certain cases)