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Fluffy attitudes?
maybe -I'm- wrong?

So after a night of some shitty RP, and some stupidity, I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the people I come across are flufftastic. It sickens me. Tonight for example, a certain character pretty much called me a bully and said all I do is wave a gun around. Now, I wouldn't care if they wern't making OOC noise about it, but for reals, if you know my character, you know how I am. And if waveing your gun around and talking shit puts you on the top or near the top, then why the fuck not? I for one am tired of people getting mad over getting shot becuase they did something fucking dumb, and then accusing people of just powerplaying, when it's pretty god damn evident that the accused don't. Yeah This is pretty much a rant but come on people this isn't Mr. Rogers fucking neighborhood it's supposed to be a shithole ghetto on ghetto sterioidsx 91. Helping people out from time to time is ok as long as you make them owe you even bigger for it then it's worth. Helping them out becuase it's the nice thing to do is just ghey. Fuck.


FUCK.


/rant

Fuck it, forget I posted...you'll just bitch more.  nevermind

(Edited by Ramsey at 11:19 pm on July 12, 2009)

Quote: from Ramsey on 9:18 pm on July 12, 2009[br]Fuck it, forget I posted...you'll just bitch more. �nevermind

(Edited by Ramsey at 11:19 pm on July 12, 2009)


Whatever dude. I don't know who you are in-game nore do I care. I'm just tired of people crying about so and so fucking someone elses day up OOCly, and people playing in the drome like it's cheers.

Say what you want, that's the point of an open discussion board, wether I "bitch" or not.

I'm just gonna say that you've got an MO man, play all your characters the same way, and regardless of what you may believe you can't sit here and say you don't powergame at all...complete and utter bullshit.  I wasn't apart of any rp with you tonight nor do I know anything at all about what went down, but when you come into the boards whining and bitching about it, well I could care less.  So someone doesn't conform to the way you want them to play, big fucking deal.  You posting out here is just to get shit started, whether you want to say it's a discussion or not, it'll turn into a finger pointing competition that's happened time and again.  Just leave it the fuck along.

I would just like to point out that Biohazard's problem seems to be, at least in part, not that other people fail to conform to the way he plays, but actively and OOCly get upset by the way his character acts In Game.

I've been in Bio's position before. �My character is also uber.

Regardless of if he plays his characters in a similar fashion or not, I will say this about them all. �They all took/take much more pleasure in fucking with people that are more powerful then them either stat wise or IC connections wise then they did/do messing with people they can easily out manuver or beat in a fight.

This kind of thing always crops up when a character makes the transition from middle-be to Oldbie. �Someone gets upset that it's to easy for said character to kill them. �That they are 'power' gaming. �That the uber character is picking on them.

All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

I'm on board with what Bio says about how people should not get upset OOCly about stuff that happens ICly. �I also know that it's a normal thing. �We are all attached to our characters. �

Sometimes you just have to play out the no win situation. �Instead of trying to take someone out head on, try to fuck them over some how. �Try to get others to hate them. �Try to drive a wedge between them and their allys. �And don't even let them know it's you doing it.

The satisfaction should come from YOU knowing you did it. �So what if you have to die a few times. �It's just death. �If you update regularly the only thing it's costing you is a couple of UE and some chyen.

It's generating RP. �Everything that happens. �The game needs uber characters to drive it forward. �It needs people that are basically untouchable. �

If you can't beat them, join them. �Then fuck them over. �Hang out in the Drome and be buddy buddy with everyone until the opportunity arises to totally FUCK them over and then do it. �There clone wont remember.


(Edited by Nemisis at 12:49 am on July 13, 2009)

(Edited by Nemisis at 12:57 am on July 13, 2009)

Quote: from Nemisis on 11:47 pm on July 12,

All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.


So say we all.

Quote: from Nemisis on 9:47 pm on July 12, 2009[br]I would just like to point out that Biohazard's problem seems to be, at least in part, not that other people fail to conform to the way he plays, but actively and OOCly get upset by the way his character acts In Game.


(Edited by Nemisis at 12:49 am on July 13, 2009)

Worded better then I put it.


But it Irked me a little, so yeah.


As for me having an MO, what do you know? What you guys whine and complain about on aim?

And all my characters acting the same? I'm sorry I'm an asshole? I can't play the nice guy, I just can't. wont ever happen. sorry.

But yeah. I don't powergame at all. That I will argue. I start rp, make threats, and give people time to react and plan accordingly. If they die, meh. If I die? Great. I don't care. It makes me laugh when I get punked out. When I get trampled on, it makes me put more of an effort into getting even, or getting back to the level I was at. I don't run in my room and act all immature yelling things like "Hay what does this toolbelt do? does it interface with your cool lazers?"
And yes, that happened to me.

If you just skip over everything I type, and write me off as whineing, crying, saying wah wah stop crying to gms about me or refusing to play with me becuase you think im gonna kill you, then just take this;
put forth more effort to knock people like me off my fucking stool and maybe people like me will go away and you can be me.

I mean, for me at least.. the game is about the struggle.  The constant, never ending struggle.  Without someone who's better then you, the only people you are struggling with are the NPCs.  And what fun is that?

Quote: from Biohazard on 9:09 pm on July 12, 2009[br]I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the people I come across are flufftastic. It sickens me.

The way some people play sickens me, too. You know who you are.

Now, I wouldn't care if they wern't making OOC noise about it, but for reals, if you know my character, you know how I am.

You and I should probably get along better OOC than we do, given our professions. But we don't. We both bring some of our OOC attitudes to bear on our characters IC actions. Maybe we shouldn't, but we do. so when I get ticked off over your IC actions, yes, I blame your OOC attitude as well. The GMs don't approve of me doing this. So, I'm not making noise to the game community (except here because you obviously want to talk about it, and when people try to be friendly and calm me down). �

And if waveing your gun around and talking shit puts you on the top or near the top, then why the fuck not? I for one am tired of people getting mad over getting shot becuase they did something fucking dumb, and then accusing people of just powerplaying, when it's pretty

Because there are other roles in this city that need to get filled. I guess everyone that starts off at SHI or courier jobs has to have ambitions to be on top and killing people to make money, or else why are they here, right? I respect Slither on the 'there always needs to be someone killing everyone else'. You fill a role. I just think you're just a real cheap trick about it. You might call it Strategic. But then again, you call RPing flaws, mistakes, and impulses "doing something fucking dumb'. Can I play the way you do? Probably not. Can you play the way I do? Probably not. Would either of us want to switch places? No. You can call me fluffy all you want, but I'd be interested in how many people think my character is A Helpful Nice Person Like In Cheers.

I'm just glad you posted, so I know you're thinking about how you play. It embarasses the shit out of me to know that the GMs got your back while I bitched to them. Go ahead and gloat. I'm still going to get pissed every time someone pulls a trick like you would. I'm also going to be jealous of the stats that allow someone to slaughter/pickpocket/steal from a character older than them. I might even give up RPing the way I think I should, because of the above things. Hell, I have.

(Edited by Lena at 10:42 pm on July 12, 2009)

Quote: from Lena on 10:31 pm on July 12, 2009[br][

You and I should probably get along better OOC than we do, given our professions. But we don't. We both bring some of our OOC attitudes to bear on our characters IC actions. Maybe we shouldn't, but we do. so when I get ticked off over your IC actions, yes, I blame your OOC attitude as well. The GMs don't approve of me doing this. So, I'm not making noise to the game community (except here because you obviously want to talk about it, and when people try to be friendly and calm me down).


I don't see how our professions should make us get along better. Matter of fact, the longer you are in the military or the more times you deploy if thats what the coast guard does you will more then likely hate everything about other branches. It's normal. And yes, when IC RP gets dumbed down, I will dumb down and roll with it and resort to going with the way you guide it.
I don't go in, actually, I never did, thinking man I hate this chick let me fuck her day up. I used to think you were pretty down before all of this but that's neither here nor there.

And if waveing your gun around and talking shit puts you on the top or near the top, then why the fuck not? I for one am tired of people getting mad over getting shot becuase they did something fucking dumb, and then accusing people of just powerplaying, when it's pretty

Because there are other roles in this city that need to get filled. I guess everyone that starts off at SHI or courier jobs has to have ambitions to be on top and killing people to make money, or else why are they here, right? I respect Slither on the 'there always needs to be someone killing everyone else'. You fill a role. I just think you're just a real cheap trick about it. You might call it Strategic. But then again, you call RPing flaws, mistakes, and impulses "doing something fucking dumb'. Can I play the way you do? Probably not. Can you play the way I do? Probably not. Would either of us want to switch places? No. You can call me fluffy all you want, but I'd be interested in how many people think my character is A Helpful Nice Person Like In Cheers.

Again, that point is half cocked becuase despite what you all believe I hardly ever kill anyone.
And I am not saying that RPing your flaws is stupid, I am saying that they can result in a stupid action that would result in someone being pissed over it. Get it?
And I know you're not cheers type, this post wasn;t all directed at you.

*stands up from his chair in the circle*

Hi,  my name is Damarung, and I, am a Fluffybunny Super Villian.

I roleplay fucking.  I roleplay getting fucked.  I roleplay killing, I roleplay dying.  I do it all.  Why, I've been raped by like, an army on here.

I've been on top of the world, and I've fallen harder than you mother fuckers will...nasty way to die.  To the one piece responsible for that...FUCK YOU.  That's right, still pissed mother fucker.

Anyway.  When it comes to Fluffy versus hardon-for-violence, there's no right or wrong.  Can we agree on this?  I mean really, without the softer side, there could be no harder side.  Its supposed to be corporate haves versus mixer havenots.  I'm a corpie full on now...do I gotta wave my gun/dick?  I will if I gotta, take the skin off your face boyo!

Jokes aside.
Bio, next char = Non-asshole or you get NO fuckin respect.
Ramsey = Combat char
Lena = Female sans balls
Slither = Make a fucking new guy and quit doing shit for no reason.
Me = Eunich

This should diversify issues in the future.

Hah.

And what's my next char?

Someone without knowledge of the universe, no deep religions or mythos or mentality.

I like that someone on here has the balls to play a character that we can all hate. That's not an easy job for a lot of us but it's an important role because without conflict, there'd be no drama and he makes some of the best drama I've had in game. And yes, I've been screwed over and threatened and almost killed a hundred times so I know what it's like to feel targeted and like I'm going to be killed - you just have to learn how to keep from ending up dead or embrace the fact that at least you have a clone and will wake up with an incentive to try find a way to get even (even if you don't succeed). It's all in the name of good RP and I despite all the rumors that he power plays, I have yet to see one single instance of it.  

He has since mended those ways.  But I can recall very unfun memories that dealt with constant sneaking and instant death.  Times change, he's changed his style, and even though my current char hasn't even met him, I'm grateful.

You unfortunately weren't around to see the RPless times.  So your female (there is a difference in treatment) 'take these drugs' and 'pretend this happened' rp sessions don't account for what the rest of us dealt with.

Bio, you know we had a problem back then.  Any issue now is simply because I gotta fuck with you and no doubt vica versa.  You're amazingly better at your job of being a pain in the ass I hear.  Kudos sir.  Kudos.


Oh.. it's because I'm female and not because of the way I RP? Dammit. And I thought I was doing alright of my own accord. Stupid me. But what about the other females? I guess they all get off because they're chicks too, right?

Wait.. is the person that Biohazard referring to male or female? Hrmm.


Had you not been obedient you woulda been dead.  Yes, your choices led to your escape, but I never got the 'shoot up or die' option.  You did, as did a few other ladies.  Its...sorta the old MO lol

Sorry Bio, but it is hehe


Isn't that the case with everyone though? I've seen the same situation that happened to me, happen to guys.

His character is the type that if you piss him off, he might kill you. It doesn't have anything to do with having boobs or not. I've seen him hassle other girls.

It sounds like you're still complaining about the fact that he killed you without giving you a chance to RP your way out of it - a thing that you also say he doesn't do anymore. And that has absolutely nothing to do with my gender.

Gender is a huge impact on alot of shit whether you wanna acknowledge it or not.  Call me sexist, but just as in the real world, it makes the same ammount of difference here.  Dudes are more likely to take a shell to the face over less.  Common sense in real life dictates this.  Argue it all you like.

/me ends.


I acknowledge that gender affects my style of RP, for sure.

But I don't believe that the issue brought up has -anything- to do with it.

The issue is that people are getting OOCly upset about the fact that Bio's character is an asshole.

I believe the topic was started because Bio was bitching that people are too flufftastic.  Being a flufftastic myself, I don't like the fluffy terminology.
In Bio's defense, no more ooc anger.  I'll wield that for everyone.
Against him, learn to deal with playstyles unlike yours.  We'll get equalibrium this way.  If we were all Bio clones, this shit would suck (in the same manner as if we were all fluffy).  Way harder than any of us make it to be currently.

I shall not create a new character.  I like Seven.  I -bleed- Seven.  I've been told I should create a new character for ages.  Fuck that.  No one is going to convince me that's a good idea for me.

If I get bored playing Seven and I HAVE, I have started new characters, several times (Ruby?  Lansing?).  And that's not to even start with the NPCs I've spent months bringing to life (Huo?  Juicy?  Mackey?  And a slur of NPC's on the Grid)

However, as much as I enjoy playing other characters I always get back to this one thing.  I play the game because there is a part of me that wants to be the ultra-badass slang talking baka hating mexican criminal mother fucker.

That's my kind of roleplaying.  That's what makes me tick.  That's the kind of RP that scratches the itch that I've had since I was a little kid growing up with a funny last name.  That's my release.

Hardly fair that some of us -have- to die while some can live forever.  If my character was murdered off in a twink manner because he was -too old- surely you beasts need to die.

I said no one is going to force me to create a new character.  I figured you all would know what I meant.  I meant OOCly force me.

If someone perms my character then of course, I would create a new one.  I would hope that everyone here would agree that I wouldn't let OOC knowledge get in the way of my character being permed and if I felt it might, I would simply not GM during the interim, as I have done in the past when OOC knowledge was making it hard for me to function on the player-side.

What many of you might not realize is that when you become an admin you really dumb down your character.  Seven is a smart guy, he always has been.  However, when I became an admin I had to start overlooking things that he might have spotted, because I wasn't sure if he was spotting them or if my Adminly knowledge of the situation was bleeding over.  So we play it safe and ignore warning signs that we are about to be betrayed, fucked over, killed, permed, etc.   You can apply that same general idea to many of the situations that alts face in game.

I forced my char to neglect things anyway as his intelligence was low.  And yeah, I was pretty much oocly forced into it once it got to a certain point.  Admin A whispers sweet nothings in your ear of good things to come.  Admin B does the same.  NPC A gives a mission.  ALT waits at location, has player under guise it was my wish do the deed.  Yeah...I was forced by admin chief.  And that was 'acceptable' and oh so 'poetic'  Fags

I wasn't around for what happened but I did look into the situation after the fact.  I found no foul play.  Another player permed you.  Not an admin.

Sure, an admin may have put you in the situation that you happened to be in when you were permed, but does that mean that we knew what the character that permed you was going to do?  No, of course not.

If an admin puppets a Judge and Judges a player for committing a crime, and the punishment is clone death, and another player hears about it and waits at the vats and perms the chummer that got clone death, would you call foul and say that the admin set them up to be permed?

What looks to you like a plot on the admins behalf to set you up, to me looks like a series of unfortunate events that led to your characters demise.  If we as admin had treated the situation any differently, if we had sheltered you from the decisions you made, wouldn't it have been a foul against the other player involved?  The one that actually did the perming?  

Aye, and I offered that individual no grief or at least I tried to convey a sense of understanding to them and let them know that I in no way was upset with their decision...I hope they felt that way.  As I've come to understand, despite my opinion on the matter, death is inevitable and it hardly goes as you'd hope.

Quote: from Damarung on 1:46 am on July 13, 2009[br] death is inevitable and it hardly goes as you'd hope.


I know I used to sneak up on you back in the day and jump you, but that was a reaction you auto attacking me. Cause and effect man. Not just you either, currently playing and past playing GM and Admin alts use to attack me all the time without RP in the slightest. It was accepted at the time and seen as the smart thing to do in order to secure your victory. However, over the past few years, it seems we ALL have evolved from that.

As for me playing a nice guy next time around? Oh no, please don't threaten to not respect me. That would just break my fucking heart.

Quote: from Damarung on 11:27 pm on July 12, 2009[br]Had you not been obedient you woulda been dead. �Yes, your choices led to your escape, but I never got the 'shoot up or die' option. �You did, as did a few other ladies. �Its...sorta the old MO lol

Sorry Bio, but it is hehe

Uhm, I dunno what you're on about here but I am an equal opportunity asshole, which I can't prove without dropping Ic bombs.

Definitly NOT sexist. Keep your IC rumours out of OOC context.

Alright, alright! � Anyone who knows this username knows that I could not possibly let this topic go without injecting my (now extensive) two chyen. �Unfortunately RL stuff has been keeping me busy the past couple days, and I really wanted to sit down and say what I felt so now I have the time who goes, first on a few things other people have said.



Quote from Nemisis

We are all attached to our characters I mean, for me at least.. the game is about the struggle. �The constant, never ending struggle. �Without someone who's better then you, the only people you are struggling with are the NPCs. �And what fun is that?

That one statement basically sums up alot of how I feel on this topic. �Very well said.

Quote by Lena
You and I should probably get along better OOC than we do, given our professions. But we don't. We both bring some of our OOC attitudes to bear on our characters IC actions. Maybe we shouldn't, but we do. so when I get ticked off over your IC actions, yes, I blame your OOC attitude as well.

I had something a bit more rude to say so I'll just leave it at this: �Do you really think that his profession has anything at all to do with yours other than the fact that your government employees? �Maybe I misunderstand your job, but I know Bio's. � This is off topic tho so I'll just leave that at that.

quoted from Lena
I'm also going to be jealous of the stats that allow someone to slaughter/pickpocket/steal from a character older than them.

You really shouldn't be. �His stats are a product of the way he plays as well as yours, that's all that is. �You jealous of one of his stats, invest in yours accordingly.

quote from Lena
You can call me fluffy all you want, but I'd be interested in how many people think my character is A Helpful Nice Person Like In Cheers.

I don't think I'd go that far, and I don't even want to say this because I just know it's going to be taken to offense, but over a peroid of many years your character has gone from being far on one end of the spectrum, to far on another. �It is likely just a misperception on my part but currently it seems your characters identity is becoming muddled in the mess of multiple angles your playing at once. � I'm not necessarily saying it's bad, or good, just making an observation because you asked for one. �I always have, and hopefully will continue to enjoy RP'ing with you.


By Damarung
Against him, learn to deal with playstyles unlike yours. �We'll get equalibrium this way. �If we were all Bio clones, this shit would suck (in the same manner as if we were all fluffy). �Way harder than any of us make it to be currently.

While I don't entirely disagree with you, multiple facets of RP are needed to create the world in which we play, I think that the "equalibrium" is currently much more tward the fluffy side then the violent.

I think that ever since I've started playing this game, or possibly after being a year or two into it, the level of ambitious violence has been heading down, and the level of... �I'm just going to say "cheers style" rp has been on the rise. � �The absolutely, positively best RP I have on moo is when there are multiple strong players (and that doesn't necessarily mean players with uber stats) playing RED �vying for turf, marketshare, whatever -insert thing to compete for here- � �The times when a couple smaller characters team up to make a stronger force, the times when everybody wanted to kill everyone and take their piece of the action, but of course few actually did because everyone has their role, and everyone has their uses. �I could go on and on about back in the old days this that and the other thing but that won't change anything. � The struggles of RED and on and in RED are no doubt what makes this game go around. � �

I really thought I had more to say about this, and I could go on and on I guess, but all I'd probably end up doing is restating the theme that (generally speaking) Mixer violence/ambition to fuck others for personal gain/the ability to come up with good countermeasures if your the one being fucked=good � Chatting mofo's up all the time, and having your RP revolve around being a socialite with little other identity=bad.

Far as bitching ooc'ly about IC events goes, I think we all hate to see it, but we've all done it, alot of us are likely to do it again, it just comes with the territory of having large amounts of time invested in characters/plots/and this game in general, and in most situations there's going to people who come out ahead, and for that to happen there will also be people that don't. � �I'm no exception to this, and have been bitchy in the past, I'd like to say that I won't do it again, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. � Generally speaking it makes me look like a whiny when I do it tho so I try not to. � My turn to be the one that comes out ahead will come. �

edited for formatting reasons not content.   and for some reason it's still jacked.   Fuck it's been forever since I've used quotes

(Edited by Jotun at 4:01 pm on July 14, 2009)

I wish more people would create different kinds of character. This entire discussion seems to be about the balance between people being either pacifist socialites or blood-crazed murderers.

I had a char recently who took a totally different route to his goals, and found the game pretty boring as a result because I was the only one who played that way, and therefore I had a monopoly on the entire dead market until someone (presumably a GM) revived an old NPC group to give me something to do.

What I'd hoped for was a kind of war. Not a violent war; more of a war of minds and perceptions. Death was unlikely to occur because my char couldn't fight for shit (or at least, he shouldn't have been able to... �_�), but the penalty for failure would have been the collapse of a virtuous dream.

It never came to that though because, I think, most players play as either corpies who only really care about money or mixers who only really care about money. They either get a dumb job with a corporation or get a weapon or tool and wait for something to happen.

There's a lot that can be done that is neither fluffy nor violent, and still creates a potentially engaging, RP-rich experience. I must admit though, I really wanted to find SOMEONE who hated me. My character found no resistance whatsoever. Starting conflict without a weapon was fucking impossible.

Edit: to clarify, I mean to point out that you can take a relatively violence-free route without being a "nice guy". You can be an incredible bastard without ever touching a weapon. This is what I think more people should do.

(Edited by darKPete at 7:36 pm on July 16, 2009)

Pete -

I agree that a lot of great RP is RP that is started without a weapon.  I disagree that no one walks that line these days.  I know of a few characters, obviously I don't want to call anyone out, but a few characters who definitely cause drama and problems without weapons.

However, if you feel as though no one is doing that with you, then don't sweat it.  Just continue profiting from the problems of others, manipulating, building your rep and prestige (or the opposite if that better fits your goals).

I think what some characters these days are lacking.. is a good, strong, nearly impossible to achieve, long term goal.

At one point, my characters long term goal was to own a business.  A lot of work went into that.  And eventually I made it happen.  (success)

At another point, his long term goal was to get the Judges off Red for good.  Months and Months went into this.. and he failed. (fail)

At another point his long term goal was to make another character accept MY terms for a peace (it was very unlikely).  Months of RP.  Some involving killing, some involving simply fucking with each other through intermediaries. (fail)

At another point it was to join the Sinners and eventually take them over (fail).

At another point his goal was to create his own gang.  Which he did.  Now we have the Snakes.  (success)

At one point he wanted to befriend the most dangerous person in the Mix.  Earn there trust.  Work for them.  Because his protege.  (success)

All along his goal had been to be -known-.  (sucess) To have a heavy rep.  (success) To be one of the most wanted people in the city (success) And to be well liked by all the Mixers (epic fail).

--

All of these things, these motivations, they gave the character a dynamic aspect, they made him real to me, and when he's real to the player, he becomes more real to the people that RP with the character.

It also gives you a reason to plot and scheme BEYOND where your going to get rent for next week, or who you can take out to afford a new gun.

It gives you a reason to be devious, to befriend people who you plan on betraying later, to lay the groundwork for things to come.

I think -everyone- including myself needs to take a look at their character and layout some nearly impossible long term goals (nearly impossibe so you really have to work for them, not 'i want to kill 10 people' or 'i want to become a terra agent'. THINK BIG.  It should be, 'I want to become the biggest mass murderer in history', or 'I want to run TERRA').

If you already have long term goals, ADD MORE.  If you dont' have any, make some up.  It will befefit you, your character, the rest of the people you RP with, and the game as a whole.

on a lighter note is def harder to be a mass murderer then a multiple murderer.


*I think he meant multiple anyways...

Quote: from Nemisis on 7:42 pm on July 16, 2009[br]I agree that a lot of great RP is RP that is started without a weapon.  I disagree that no one walks that line these days.  I know of a few characters, obviously I don't want to call anyone out, but a few characters who definitely cause drama and problems without weapons.

Come to think of it, you're right. I was pretty self-centred in assuming I was the only one who played in that way; I've remembered at least one other character during my guy's lifetime who was inventive and made cool things happen without taking the basic approach.

I think playing in this way can be quite important, and admirable. The long-term goals thing is another very good idea which my characters never used as much/well as they could have.

Hope my new character can live up to all this XD

Quote: from Nemisis on 7:42 pm on July 16, 2009[br]I disagree that no one walks that line these days. �I know of a few characters, obviously I don't want to call anyone out, but a few characters who definitely cause drama and problems without weapons.

Christ, I wish I could find them. Every time I start playing again my first contact with anyone involves getting a gun stuffed in my face, dragged around a bit, traded back and forth by squabbling oldbies, effectively told to "Shut the fuck up" ICly if I try to join in the RP and ultimately killed.

Oh, except that one time I twinked out and stuffed an oldbie into the ground after he tried the bully the newb routine and OOCly called me a pussy because of the newbie protection, so I dropped it and sent him to the vats. Shame he was so lame as to scoot right back to where he died, scout around, find me afk and kill me to get his gear back without even the tiniest effort to RP (ie, walked in and out of the location half a dozen times until it was obvious I wasn't responding, then kill, get all, retreat to cube).

Fluffy isn't bad, it's just different. The whole "mean streets of cyberpunk" attitude is all well and good, but endless beatdowns just because you have the stats to play alpha dog ultimately drives people away and harms the diversity of the player base.

Quote: from Lena[br]
I'm also going to be jealous of the stats that allow someone to slaughter/pickpocket/steal from a character older than them.


Quote: from Jotun[br]
You really shouldn't be. �His stats are a product of the way he plays as well as yours, that's all that is. �You jealous of one of his stats, invest in yours accordingly.

Excuse the double-post, but I just picked this out from the multi-quote mess of Jotuns post (multiple quotes always been a bitch on this relic)

Lena's point stands, the stat and UE system is horrendously "age" oriented, I know because I've worked with it extensively and argued that it needed changing. Play style and how you invest your UE is a very minor factor, as little as a couple of weeks worth of UE difference in relative stat/skill sets is all it takes to make the older character unbeatable by a younger character. So when it comes to facing up against chars with months or years on you, you're pretty much screwed.

Sure, you can get lucky if you play a certain very narrow band of skills with your UE, invest like a bitch and catch your opponent on his weak side. Or you can chase the high end of the curve which narrows the playing field for the serious oldbies to play in, but until you get up there you're basically a whipping boy.

Combat scrapes by with reasonably variable results because I made relatively high use of the critical/fumble system which I had to add on the sly because I was told not to touch the stat/skill system. I've run the numbers on this very extensively, had tests that ran thousands of stat checks and created comparisons of the results to demonstrate how bad the problem was, but nobody wanted to listen.

Off topic I know, but Lena is very right on that point. (Although there is an interesting flaw that's been added to combat that seriously skews everything if you know what was disabled, what it effects and how to abuse it... Be glad I don't play combat chars. :) I've demonstrated it once, as mentioned in my previous post. ;))

(Edited by Rastus2 at 6:34 pm on July 17, 2009)

fuck it let's just do away with stat's, skills, and combat. We'll all be equals becuase to hell with some asshole investing more then me, and having more warez/shots/bigger guns etc etc etc.


Stat's aren't even the issue here to be honest. It's people getting OOCly mad that they can't figure out a creative way to knock out that oldbie who is harassing them when it's really not that hard and has been done a thousand times.

Oh, I dunno if I mis-read you or not Rastus, but on the topic of stats and age, I'm pretty sure Lena was complaining that she's older and therfore shouldn't be able to get pizzowned by people younger. That's if I didn't misread that too. I'm tired, I just got a new tattoo...
but on that train of thought, it doesn't hold much water becuase I believe, for example, she takes breaks in accordance with her line of work or whatnot, where as I've only taken a year off for mine. Therfore, since I'm in the army and live in Leesville fuckin Lousiana where the closest thing to entertainment is watching the trailer park rack in some domestic disputes, I have more time to sit on SD and collect Ue and spend it. Me being the younger one, has logged more time/ue in the sense that I've been on more and therfore more staterd up.

But then again like I said I am in totally worn out and may have mis-read all of this becuase of agonizing pain becuase i picked a bad spot to get some ink done lol.


Goodnight.

Ya, the way I understood it was what bio said, that she's upset that she's older and still doesn't win basically stated.   I don't even think I have to explain why that's not correct.  


To expand on what Rastus said tho, I've seen characters with higher stats loose to characters with lower stats because the characters with lower stats are able to find a weakness in the way the person with higher stats conducts their combat.   Without exploiting bugs by the way, that's cute that you implied you would tho.

@Rastus - With Cyberware you can be uber pretty quickly.  I don't think it's the stat/skill system that is the problem.

I made a point out of attacking and killing older characters or uber NPCs when I was just a player.  

It takes RP, scheming lying, deceit, and a bit of luck.  It's possible and it's fun.

I'm gonna play both fronts ehehe.  Gonna be fluffy, AND whatever you wanna call non-fluffy.  Gonna nail some oldbies/midbies/noobies to the wall/bed.  And laugh about it all.  (In a sweet way, cuz ya know I'm the cuddle-bunny)

Hear that Bio...comin for ya taint son!

Think I just made myself sick...ugh...

What it really boils down to aren't stats and skills, it's how you play. This has been repeated in multiple posts throughout this thread.

That's the point of it. Your stats and skills revolve around your character, not the other way around.  Set your shit up accordingly and go out there to have fun.  Wanna be fluffy, do it. Wanna be a murk monster, do it. Wanna be somewhere in between, which all of us are--there really aren't so many people playing utter extremes--do it!

Want to try to break the mold and play a different style of character than Mix thug, corpie, TERRA bitch, Judge Killer, Judge, etc? Do eet!

I'll have to agree with Slither there about defining some long term IC goals, and base these goals in part on the history that you created to help drive the character.  Sometimes those goals along with some decent RP will help slog through the rough times when all you can do is log on and walk around the Dome looking for shit to do.

And I've got to agree with Bio here about taking on more reputable, powerful, older, etc. characters. Find a way to do it, and if you can't, find a way to fuck with them.  It's not about the end result, it's about the fun you have while making the attempt.  That's the stuff of great RP.  

If' you've got a newb char, fucks sake jump into the RP and start pushing your char's agenda. Don't sit around for ten weeks upping stats and doing Acme/Brucie runs just because you don't think you've got what it takes to make a play for some sort of success.  

Most of all, have some fucking fun.  If you're having fun being fluffybunny cuddly or killing everything that moves and everything in between, do it, and respect the IC responses from others based on your actions.  Just because things don't go the way we expect doesn't mean said things shouldn't happen and are unfair... or something...

Bleh! I ran out of steam!  There's my bit for the thread.

2CH,

Grim

Ho-hum.

My point was that Lena was right, albeit for the wrong reason, hence why I talked about "age" as opposed to her talking about age. I guess I neglected to explain the difference. By "age" I mean clocked play time, ie, raw UE earned.

I'm not suggesting anything is unfair in the principle of experience and improving stats to have an advantage, I'm saying Lena inadvertently hit on a long standing flaw in the check system.

The fact people with lower stats can defeat a better opponent is entirely dependent on non-stat related factors, including a couple that had to be added purely to make combat worthwhile (criticals, fumbles and the posture system). Rest assured, combat without these resulted in the person with very slightly more UE in combat skills winning EVERY single round of combat. Like, so few UE that you could both be on the same "word" level, the check system is THAT flawed.

Now, the problem is, combat is very specifically coded with a lot of additional features to make that work. Things like sneak/perception or pickpocket/perception "versus checks" have no such provision, apart from the crit/fumble system which strictly speaking was never approved ;)

I guess it's largely moot, I just considered it interesting although not really related to the thread.

Quote: from Jotun on 6:02 am on July 18, 2009[br]Without exploiting bugs by the way, that's cute that you implied you would tho.

I can't decided if that's a feeble trolling, straw man or just pure dumbshittery. I wrote a lot of the combat system, I can't not know how it works, but it doesn't matter because I don't play combat characters.

On top of that, I made every effort to explain why what they were changing was wrong and what effect it would have. The response was that as long as players don't know about it and don't complain, it doesn't matter. As far as they're concerned it's not a bug, it's how combat works now.

I just used postures as they currently function to demonstrate (yes, DEMONSTRATE, that's the word I used up there, ie SHOWED admin) what could be done then binned the character. More fool the oldbie who got in the firing line thinking he could push newbies around and give me shit for having newbie protection.

So yea, one newbie 15 mins out of chargen with zero gear vs geared up oldbie with a bad attitude, using the combat system exactly as it's intended to be used is cute exploiting of bugs? You're a fucking moron.

EDIT: typo fix for Jotun. :)

(Edited by Rastus2 at 1:11 pm on July 20, 2009)

Maybe I misunderstood what you said, maybe I misread it, maybe you mistyped it, but I know I'm not the only one who understood you to mean that you have no problem exploiting bugs, and that we all better "Be glad -you- don't play combat chars."   That was the quote right?

If I'm the one who misunderstood what you wrote than I hereby apologize.

I can't decided it that's a feeble trolling, straw man or just pure dumbshittery.

but if your going to call me a dumbshit, moron, or any other name, espically one that implies you think I'm stupid, then please take the time to proofread your post for fucks sake, cause that's either the ugliest sentence I've ever seen, or I really am a dumbass with no comprehension of grammar, who knows, I didn't really do that well in english anyway so maybe I'm the only one who thinks that looks like alphabet soup.

Hehe, you're calling me out on a single typo of "if" in an entire post at the same time as murdering grammar and spelling yourself? Seriously? It's not something I'd normally bother picking up on, but c'mon, glass houses, stones, etc.

So, I dunno man, what are you digging for here? It's fairly common knowledge I'm ex-admin, I wrote a lot of the combat system as well as a lot of other game features. It would in all honesty be brutally unfair if I played combat chars, even without knowledge of the new unbalanced factors. It's hardly something new, every single admin who steps out with his player alt is in exactly the same position of being privy to knowledge that could be abused, I just happen to know the combat system inside out and back to front so yea, quite obviously, it's a good thing I don't play combat chars.

If you're alluding to something, out with it. Otherwise I can only presume you're throwing mud in the blind hope something will stick.

I happen to be a hardcore RPer with very little interest in playing stat games, even SD has reached a stage where its dependence on mechanics mostly puts me off playing so if you're trying to paint me as some kind of code abusing miscreant you're just ridiculously off base.

Aside from that, this whole "bug" thing seems to be something you've conjured up from fantasy land.

*shrug* If you want to accuse me of something or discuss it further, maybe we should start a new thread, I think this is all rather off topic now. :)

Back on topic.

If someone says or does something ICly you don't like, then react IC. If they talk shit OOC, then you've won. You've given them RP so intense that it has fucked up their day IRL.

Either that or they're oversensitive, so hand then a razor, some tight pants and send them to the bathtub.

If you care what people think of you/your character OOCly, then get another razor for yourself.

This is an RPMOO. You come here to RP and have fun. If you make OOC friends, so much the better. If not, big deal.

Quote: from Murphy on 1:31 pm on July 21, 2009[br]Either that or they're oversensitive, so hand then a razor, some tight pants and send them to the bathtub.

Dude, that's so, like, alphabet soup or something! PROOFREAD MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU DO IT?

On a more serious note, I'll apologise for being a bit of goit, Jotun. I just don't appreciate accusations of cheating when keeping this place in order used to be my business and something I took damned seriously.

Quote: from Rastus2 on 5:20 pm on July 22, 2009[br]

Dude, that's so, like, alphabet soup or something! PROOFREAD MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU DO IT?

Toung.

Tounge, accually!

Tonge?

TOUNGE! Damnit, learn to misspell right!

As in: We're comming too cut out you're tounge, accually.

It's a readers digest condensed book version of the most common and annoying spelling mistakes online. Although I think I need to figure out how to add Rouge (Rogue) into the sentence these days.

(Edited by Rastus2 at 1:14 pm on Aug. 7, 2009)


(Edited by Rastus2 at 1:17 pm on Aug. 7, 2009)

(Edited by Rastus2 at 1:17 pm on Aug. 7, 2009)

And to be well liked by all the Mixers (epic fail).


Gee, I wonder why.

Quote: from Jotun on 3:52 pm on Sep. 24, 2009[br]Don't waste your time whining. Grow up and get used to real life. Thank You.

Change your sig man, your constant butt-hurt whinging just makes it laughable.

Also, you didn't answer my question. What's with the chip on your shoulder, did I piss in your cornflakes when I was an admin or something?

If I have interacted with you as a GM then I didn't realize it was you so no  nothing you did to or with me as a GM has anything to do with anything I have said, will say, or am saying.

Look like I said maybe I misunderstood you and I apologize for that.  My last post not only had nothing to do with you, I'm pretty sure you don't even totally know what I was getting at with it, so please stop the name calling and the fight picking.  I'm done, I've got better shit to do than argue with you or anyone else about words and bruised egos on some posting board, even if it is in a place I love and take very seriously.   Unless we're going to start posting back on topic please consider this my last response to you, and if you ever use your name calling tactics tward me in the future, rest assured you, and anything you say will be fully ignored.

I don't think I made any suggestion that your last post was anything to do with me, just used you bumping the thread as an opportunity to try and find out what your deal is.

I mean, I can't be arsed to trawl it up, but this isn't the first time you've picked a fight with me, tried to accuse me of shit then started playing the victim when I call you out. It's pretty tiresome and like I said, makes a mockery of your sig.

Not to worry though, I guess somebody just needs a hug. :-)

{{{{{{{{{HHHHUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGZZZZZZZZZZ}}}}}}}}}}

That's right, hug it out boys.  Let's get back on topic.

As the fluffy ambasador, I feel that the problems have been resolved in a manner most everyone can enjoy.  If not, bite our fluffy nuts ;)