Changes to inoculations
Why was this forced without a vote?

Not the right Fix, Bubbles.

Your argument that it shouldn't last forever I can see as valid, but just making it not survive cloning is a horrible and super lazy way to deal with it.

I said I wasn't going to do this yet, but I find myself with nothing else I currently want to play as tonight seems to be a night for server maintenance on multiple games I could be playing, so I am going to make a short version of what could be a very long essay.

This decision to just make vaccines not survive cloning is not a fix to a problem as claimed but rather a new problem that needs fixing. It is unfair to any character that wants to remain vaccinated and gets vatted. It is not a cheap problem but to anyone not playing the 'solo', 'merc', 'ganger', 'criminal mastermind', 'corporate espionage', 'fence/fixer' or any other version of character that is high stakes, high gains is a major expense if they actually wake up in the vat. On par with the complications and expenses of replacing good gear or chrome and it's just piled on top of the other set backs that already exist. It WILL lead to more people just boothing or jumping after getting vatted, guaranteed. It is also contrary to the claim that the MOO is attempting to make the pain of vatting less because to those that care, this re-ups the cost to more than it was before the supposed lessening of the burden.

As far as argument for it and dismissals (which I would like to term many as gaslighting) that have been expressed to defend the decision, I am going to address a few. 'It's a setting of haves and have nots' is bull as not being able to afford it is a have not, not making them harder to maintain or short supply as the whole cyberpunk genre is not supposed to be one of shortages but of expensive abundance where anyone that has the money to fork out can buy pretty much anything they want and where it's the greed of the haves that limit the funds of the have nots. 'It will add to RP' I have already addressed about how it's not the case for doctors in another post and as for it giving fixers more to do, I don't see Fixers having any shortage of things to do in the game and most people that want to play the vaccinations game are not going to be going to fixers to get injections but to doctors which in turn are mostly going to take the times of GMs to deal with. 'They are not that expensive' has been invalidated as an argument by more than just myself as they are NOT cheap. I don't even want to go into addressing the post I saw about how one shouldn't plan for problems when making game decisions as failure to have the foresight to see an weigh problems caused by changing is how economies and bridges collapse and it's also how entire game IPs die overnight and companies go bankrupt in the process.

Now in doing this, there is a whole new imbalance to the economy and availability of vaccines which should be a dime a dozen in a technologically advanced world like one in the cyberpunk genre, and it shouldn't be something that will be fixed later, but something that should be adjusted when the change is made, unless an entire plot is planned around it from the start to roll out the changes slowly. This is not the type of change that should just be thrust on the MOO without any news, announcement, planning, plot, etc. This is something that Genetek should have released statements about, justifying why they are being made, maybe pointing a finger at some other company about threats involved in causing it and is not the type of whole lore and precedent shattering changes should just be thrust upon the setting. So much for anyone that has been quite vocal or leaned heavily on their being clean. Woe is to the WCS-Sanitation workers that are regularly ending up in the Vat or the topside Joy that has to remain clean for their job, not that there seem to be any in the current game as staff seem to have some massive hangup about currently allowing licensed joys that aren't in house corporate joys. That is a completely different matter, though.

Now, as far as this being an introduction of new problems, the major points have already been stated: Limited availability, high cost, burden on GMs, additional problems for any character that wants to stay vaccinated that ends up in a Vat, and far from least, that it just turns the already established norms in the game on it's head with no explanation of how or why. This should have been dealt with much smarter and not so lazy. I have already thought of a dozen different ways it could have been done better and could definitely come up with more, and this is in addition to the just do it this way but make it a plot driven situation, or to at least have adjusted economy and availability and inserted automated NPCs that can give vaccinations at the same time. I will just address two now to keep this shorter than the long ass essay I could make this.

First I'll go easy method. Rather than just have them fail completely in a vat, give vaccinations a counter of how many clones they will survive before they fail. It could be different from one vaccination to another or even have a random element, like a vaccination to pussy-foot syndrome has a vatting survival of 5 + 1d6 clones before it is gone and that number can be completely hidden. Heck, you could hide the @stats report of how many inoculations someone has and make it a requirement that characters undergo blood testing to occasionally check what they are still inoculated to.

Second, I'll give the smart, realistic, and subtle way to do it, that it could be slipped in without anyone just suddenly noticing that things have been radically changed and that could be slid right into the disease lore already in the game without anymore than a subtle nudge to change it. You start by taking each vaccination type and treating them with separate stats for the effects I am going to explain here. Each should have an effectiveness score or how effective a dose of it is. This can be a set number or a variable range or say 80% or 60 + 5d10% and maybe a separate value for how much can be added by additional doses if one if already above a set effectiveness floor. For example, the original dose may be 60% effective and if one still have an effectiveness of over 20%, additional doses add 40%, or maybe have additional doses add 60% minus 1/2 of the current effectiveness score. In the case of effectiveness levels over 100%, that should be considered a durable vaccination and not necessarily an always effective one as diseases could be given a minimum chance of infection regardless of how high the vaccination level is. Now as far as keeping them from being permanent, each vaccine type could have a loss of a set effectiveness % each time a person is cloned as well as a degradation over time. A sample may be said Vaccination for pussy-foot syndrome mentioned above having dosage effectiveness of 75% - (current effectiveness/3) with a degradation of 3% per month and 10% per vatting. One could make it detectable with blood tests what the current effectiveness level is as either a detailed score or a broader (none, negligible, weak, moderate, strong, solid) set of ranges, or one could also make the actual strength and degradation values known in game as medical statistics with a flat detected/undetected vaccination level to make it more like modern medicine where there are just time frames or vat counts where getting boosters is recommended. In addition to the vaccination scores in this system of dealing with it, one should also have the effective vaccination value of actually having caught and survived a given disease which in the case of some diseases may be a higher value than getting vaccinated and others lower or nothing at all. I'll note that it is completely rational to have some vaccination, especially ones to viruses be a lifetime thing where they never degrade, even with vatting, though there could also be ones that never degrade with time but do with vatting. If one wanted to get really clever, there could be diseases that one can only catch if they are already immune or have a set immunity level to another disease unless you get another vaccination for the new disease. A real world example of this would be chicken pox and shingles. Finally, just to make this run smoothly and not have it abuseable or absurd in the outcomes that can accidentally be caused with exposure to diseases, one also have an exposure timestamp of last exposure to a disease or vaccine and have a minimum period be another exposure or vaccination can have an effect, like 2 week minimum between boosters for a vaccination of immunity boosts caused by having a disease.

Either of these alternate ways to deal with it wouldn't bother me. Adjusting the economy and just putting in new fixes (like immediately) to fix the added problems would still bother me but not enough to cause the bleed this is causing now, but as it has currently been done with a flat change like this and no adjustments to the game to deal with the changes is really too much for me. My ability to RP is on hold and my time before I bleed out and quit is limited and if I quit, I am not the type to take a breather and come back later. I will be gone forever as I hold grudges. I don't live be the adage of 'Once Burned, Twice Shy' as I don't tend to give second chances. This kind of callous disregard for the effects this has on all the aspects of the game it affects as well as the characters in it is just not the type of thing I would give a second chance.

(Edited by wh1ppet at 4:56 am on 2/19/2026)

@mindstunter (you misspelled my name too)

Kind of not surprised you couldn't follow it seeing as how you don't seem to understand the difference between optimizing a character and not changing or even retconning major parts of past RP and lore in the game. You are the one that seems to think predictable problems are hypothetical situations. I don't even see where you seem to come up with the concept of this having anything to do with optimizing characters when it is much more about not wanting to rewrite characters to fit sudden changes to the game based purely on arbitrary rule decisions with no consideration of effects on RP, lore, history, or any of the aspects that make a RPing game a RPing game and not just a game.

(Edited by wh1ppet at 6:03 am on 2/19/2026)

No, Terrible_the_duck. This shatters too much past RP and might as well be treated as retcon level changes. I'm not making those changes. I take my RP very serious. This isn't just a PVP pissing contest to me where the rules and story are arbitrary.

ADDED: To put it into terms that may be easier to understand, this rules breaks continuity with anyone who's RP has involved major decisions or plots involving how the Vaccines worked. Breaking continuity crosses a line that I can't accept being crossed. Though most people might not care about this 'minor' rule change because it doesn't affect them, or doesn't affect them much, there is a portion of the player base that this absolutely has major impacts on and I wasn't the first person to raise the objection so I'm not alone here. Only place I might be alone is in how serious I am taking this and how much it breaks my character and will impact my enjoyment of playing here. I can much more easily write my character out of the story than cope with this change. And just the fact that I plan to write myself out and not just abandon it outright, or take the time to voice not only my objection but suggestions of better ways to deal with this is bordering on more than effort than I feel I should be bothering with because I really don't expect the staff to care and am really tempted to just bail. This is very much not an example of the claim they support and care about all types of players because this is writing out a whole segment of the player base with a 'Sorry, just cope' attitude. (Edited by wh1ppet at 6:10 am on 2/19/2026)

(Edited by wh1ppet at 6:23 am on 2/19/2026)

(Edited by wh1ppet at 6:24 am on 2/19/2026)

@mindhunter

What would be retconned is major RP decisions and RP around my character pursuing vaccines, why she pursued vaccines and explaining she has done to others about how vaccines work. What are you having problems with in understanding that it has been a major part of RP? That it has consumed weeks worth of my characters time, and if vaccines didn't work the way the did, my character would have been played completely differently.

No it's not about optimization. It's about continuity, RP done, decisions made being based on the way things worked and suddenly the setting has changed in ways that that RP would have been completely different and a major decision my character made 2 years ago would have been made differently. I'd be fine if they always worked the way they do right now, but they didn't and that had major effects on my character, period. There is no big Ingame event or announcement or plot to explain this… No announcement by Genetek. This isn't Grid 4.0 being rolled out. This is just a suddenly change in how the universe works with no IG plot behind it to react to. It's like it always worked the way it does now and that doesn't work for me! What part of this are you having trouble understanding? It's not about wanting to be disease proof, it's about having decided two years ago based on the way Vaccines worked to be disease proofed and not wanting to rewrite major RP over the past two years to suddenly fit this new reality.

Like there was testing of vaccines my character was involved in to settle myths and misunderstandings about vaccines and how they worked, lots of blood testing and RP with other characters that would not have happened the way it did.

(Edited by wh1ppet at 7:06 am on 2/19/2026)

PS: I am not changing my character over an arbitrary rule change, period, and even if there were a plot around it at this point I can't be positive I still wouldn't quit. It would be more likely I'd be able to work with it, but there is a good chance it would be last straw with her tolerating the Dome and the breaking point where she leaves the city, which is what is going to happen if this isn't fixed.

(Edited by wh1ppet at 7:15 am on 2/19/2026)

I will explain my point on "Not adding to Medical RP in any meaningful way."

This change does not add new RP to the medical field. It doesn't allow them to develop their own cures, it doesn't change how diseases as diagnosed, it doesn't add something new to the table.

All it does is add more of the same. If you have a character that has lived 1+ years, you are ALREADY going to get your shots again. If you are a new player and getting sick, you are already getting diagnosed and cured. This rp ALREADY EXISTS. All this change does, is make being a new character harder, by adding more of the same roleplay 90% of the playerbase doesn't enjoy.

We LITERALLY had this discussion already when that flu that kept reinfecting everyone came out. The community overwhelmingly said that an outbreak once in a while was fine because you could stay home and e-rp. But when they are more then that, it completely and utterly derails plots and fun.

What do you think the end result of making sure the poorer characters can't afford to keep up on their shots is? Just use a SMIDGE of common sense here.

(The answer is, more outbreaks, and more "Stay at home" rp)

(Edited by SmokePotion at 7:18 am on 2/19/2026)

(Edited by SmokePotion at 7:20 am on 2/19/2026)

"There is no change that could be made to the way vaccine science or diseases work that would suddenly cause the vaccines she already has to change in the way they work. That is laws of physics level changes without a major plot to explain it. It's continuity breaking. It's like if tomorrow the sun suddenly started rising in the west, setting in the east and days were 32 hours long. The only explanation is that Genetek made a willful and intentional decision to filter out vaccines from updates which is so cruel and unusual that it's inhumane and the only way it would at all profit them is if ViriiSoma was paying them to do it so they could sell more vaccines. Without such an ingame plot being played out, it is absolutely a change to how things work that affects continuity."

I mean, maybe that is what happened? It sounds like you just delivered a great IC explanation.

My point being is it is feasible.

I've said my piece, and expressed my point fairly well, in my opinion. So I'll be stepping away from the discussion.

I also want to state that, even though I am coming at this from a fairly upset point of view, I understand that the staff are doing their best to make the game more engaging and realistic and fun. I understand i worded some things fairly strongly, but they werent meant to make staff feel bad.

Seriously, I love all of our staff, they do great work. I just disagree, vehemently, with this change.

What if your payment for the vaccine is actually like 'vaccine insurance' for one year, so you don't have to re-buy after vatting but you still have to get it re-installed?

More medical RP. Less chy sink.