Chargen

    Yes, my first character finally died again, and rather than opt for going into my clone, I went towards the light.  And ended up in Chargen again.  I have gone through it a few times now too get a feel for it.  and yes I have some things I have noticed and would like some feedback on.  Now it might be a little different for new players but I think this is a general experience.
    There is no introduction or automated help beyond what is available in the game. There is nothing telling you  to xhelp to reach a GM/Admin.  You go through the process of choosing your Sex, Name, Stats, Skills, Description, Country of Origin, Race, Hair color and style, Eye color, Heigth and Build. Once you have moved to the next set of  choices you can never go back.  There is no help for individual stats or skills, when you type help with either of them you are flooded with general info but no specifics.  Also the stats info in the game is more detailed because it talks about Substats.  I am not even sure the substats even apply.  There is no access to history or even a mention of history to tell you how important it is for your character and the game.

bugs I have noticed.
    When pumping Stats up and down.  If you bump your luck all the way up, you cannot lower your luck back down to its starting point to get all of you points back.  It seems to get stuck on dire.  I ended up 7 points short on a character generation.  The poor guy suicided fairly quickly.
    When I show up at the dome and l me I got the description I wrote but for clothes I got…"A pair of nasty, grey slipper-shoes flip-flop loosely on its feet. The material is thin and paper-like, with the Genetek logo stamped on the side of each shoe."  And I couldn't take them off.  I could put sneakers or shoes over them, but when I take them off the damn flip-flops show up. I checked my @nakeds and they are at default.
    Also, When you are standing in line to enter the dome, you are given the option (several times) of leaving the line. You can do so and even enter the game thru other means, avoiding SIC implantation.  However you do not get to choose your characters full name unless you get implanted.  If you have played already under a different full name this could get confusing.

    On a side note, while there was no notice to use xhelp,  I did use xhelp and asked questions and got answers from a very helpful staff member.  I am not complaining about the service I got but I am wondering how we can make the job easier for them and for the newbies who stumble into the game.  
    My next few posts will be concerning Scripting an intro, creating a passport (system) into the dome, Scripting help for Stats and Skills and including the History system in the Chargen process.

Unless I am completely wrong about any/all of this.  Any comments?

Welcome to Chargen
There is a Sign on the wall and a Kiosk with a large button on it here.
/read sign/
Welcome to Sindome
    Sindome is a text-based cyberpunk reality.  This isn't cyber-fantasy, hack-n-slash orreal reality.  Think William Gibson, Blade Runner, "The Matrix", etc.  While a high level of creativity is encouraged, the "idiom" of the dome as it were is a gritty, harsh, somewhat technologically dependent not TOO distant future. The corporations control the government and, the unwashed masses, have almost no rights.
    Sindome is for mature gamers only. Some of the subject matter in the game pertains to complex social, political and even intimate relationships.  There is at least one strip club and at least one sex shop for characters to distract themselves in.  Please don't waste our time if you can't handle the potential subject matter.
    Sindome is still under development by a small group of dedicated staff.  We are as passionate about role playing and watching you have fun as you are.  We welcome suggestions and queries to us and are glad to help you whenever you need it.
<ooc type help for automated help. Type xhelp <message> to talk to a staff member.>

/push button on kiosk/
Hello, Welcome to The AutoPassport Kiosk.  Please answer each of the question compleately. Enter @abort to stop the passport process.
Please Enter your full name:
Please Enter any Alias or Nickname:
Please Enter your Birthdate. MM/DD/YYYY format:
You are currently (current_year-birth-year) years old. Is this correct? Y/N
Enter nation of origin:
Enter Race:
Enter Height:
Enter Weight:
Enter Hair Color:
Enter Hair Style:
Enter Eye Color:
Please Imagine a Description of yourself as others see you. Type <E>xaple for an example or <D>escribe to enter your description.  Type a single '.' followed by a enter to end the process. This will be used for a psycological profile encoded into your passport.

(the kiosk would then list the item entered into it with numbers in front of them. eg)
1) Name: John Smith
2) Alias: Johnny
Ect.
Is the above information correct? If no,  enter the number to edit the information desired. If yes, Enter (Y)es.
/Yes/
Please look at the flashing red light on top of the kiosk and smile!
*Flash*
You find yourself outside the dome with a passport in your inventory.  Don't worry you will lose it in no time, just like all the other tourists.

The above is a Really, really rough draft as I would see the system.  Notice there is no mention of Stats or skill yet.  That comes later in the dome.

Questions?
Comments?
Bueller?
Bueller?

    Yes it is archaic,  but it could be used to get the player up to speed.  You take a form that they know and then transfer it to something new.  That way the player can understand what is happening.  
    As for redundant, I can only say two things.
1) I already said you would loose the passport like all other tourists, so you are not really expected to hang on to it.
2) all players do not have the SIC chip in their head.

     Also this is only One idea for the Chargen process.  I am sure that Between them the Admins/GMs have about a dozen ideas for the process.  I am only trying to make suggestions and spark discussions to help light the flame of creativity if you will.  Could be a compleate waste of time.  I will find out if and when they say "Thank you" or "Fuck off".

Any other comments?

    okay, Why have passport if they are going to be replaced by chips if you go thru the main gate or are going to be useless if you don't.  That is to say, if the character bypasses the Chip implimentation process and is in the dome, what the fuck is a passport good for.  Quit simple, To keep the character from going back and getting a chip later.  No passport, no chip. And if you actually enter the dome or drop the passport outside the dome you lose it. Why?  Because to my knowledge there is nothing that keeps a character from going back to checkpoint omega and getting a chip implanted.  Shouldn't it be a choice and once you are inside you have to RP the concequences?

   Or just screw it and skip the passport in general.  Instead of it being seperate from the dome intake process it is actually the first terminal/room (Immigrant Registration) you come to. You check your baggage in (it will be checked later to issue you gear IC)  And instead of issuing the player a passport the terminal would just flash and say "Thank you Citizen.  Please continue to the south for Health/Sanitation inspection."  At which point the player will enter their stats.  And I have a rather evil Idea about that.*heh*

    The actual passport wasn't the point.  It was only a tool to get the player thru the process.  It was a FUCKING PROP. Okay?

    That being said I am really excited about what I just found out about scripting.  It looks real fun and I will see if  they will actually let me play with it. (Yes, I just found out about scripting.  Yes, I am a compleate and utter newb. Deal.)

    okay a pass/id-card/chip/disk instead of the clunky, paper passport.  works for me.

    As for the stealing of the ID card, I think it would open up a lot of possiblility for different situations.  Identity theft for one and as Nemisis talked about, getting a large amount of intell about a target.

   However, I honestly think it would be redundant in the long run and could be open to abuse.   Besides, we probably  don't have the skills/tools that could read/unlock somebodyelses ID chip/disk.  Let's not put another thing we can't support right now into the game.  And Let's not make More work that absolutely nesassary for the Coders/GMs.  We love them even if we don't show it often enough.

    Hey reefer,  thanks for the post.  I agree with a lot that you have said.  
    Yes, we should seperate Mixers and Corpies when they are chargening.  The question is when?  Before the process starts or when they are just finishing. (for corpies "The clerk looks at your documentation and then at you.  'I am sorry, you shouldn't have gone through this with *those* types.  We will have a shuttle down momentarily for you and your compatriots. please have a seat in our private lounge while you are waiting.'  You wait for 10 minutes in the lounge, board the shuttle and enter into the dome on gold at Neotrans." )
    And yes I agree that to much sensitive information in one object is very dangerous, That is why I said it could be subject to abuse.  It doesn't matter what you tell others after chargen, you just need to be truthfull to the character while you are generating it.
  "However vague, information does a newbie good." I absolutely agree.  Giving the player information, steeping them in the culture that has been created in the dome, should be part of the Chargen process.  Older players who are creating new characters for whatever reason will probably just speed thru the process.  But newbies who read and interact with the chargen process will have a sense of what they are getting into.  The chargen process can act as prolog in that respect. Setting the stage for the character before they step out into it.
    The only reason I am worried about SIC crap is because it will have repercussions inside the game.  Honestly, if you don't have a SIC chip and for some god awful reason you find yourself on gold, How long do you think you would last if a Judge stopped you.
     The reason most of these discussions center around skills and getting a job is that those are the things that newbies are most concerned about.  They are the obvious ways of
1) controling your environment.(Stats/Skills)
2) belonging to something/having a place in the dome and getting a income to survive (Jobs)  
     As for history, that is actually the bedrock or foundation of your Roleplaying.  What are your characters goals? Hopes? Fears?  Do you have any Enemies that might pop up?  Old friends that might show up looking for a favor?
    The only questions you need to ask before letting the newbies fall under your wing as an older player is "Is this IC?  What is in it for my character?"  If we get too carried away with helping the newbies instead of letting the system help them it turns in to "happy fluffy bunny land" and Iga burns us all down with lasers shooting from his eyeballs while he froths at the mouth.

(Edited by Mensaboy at 7:59 pm on April 3, 2006)

    Okay, the concensus seems to be to choose where your character comes in.  Course how that is going to be coded and where you decide it in the chargen process seems to be up to Johnny and Co.
    A couple other ideas.
    First,what is up with the hairstyles?  I am pretty sure that CP has a lot more varity than is currently allowed.  Why limit the color and length to a certain set when the Player could describe it and really have some fun.  It would make a nice little introduction into working with nakeds.  Hell, you could create a @naked for hair and just go with that.  Sure there are some very unimmaginitive people who will log in, but have some suggestions for defaults so they can use them and move on.  This could add some real color to the game.
    Second, Just an idea on how to deal with Stats, use levels not points.  Right now you put points into a stat to buy levels described by words. (I am not going into if I disagree with this set up or not, I am just going to work with the system we have for now.)  What if you skipped the points and bought level increases instead?
     This is how I envision it to work.  The defaults levels are avereage or just below, and give the player 3 or 4 level increases in a pool.  When they choose a stat to increase the server would decrease the level pool by one and give them enough points to reach the next level and no more. If they want to decrease it, the server would lower the points to the minimum required for the new level and increase the level pool by one.  This would let the players decide what areas the new character specialize in, and would be quicker and easier to understand for newbies.
     Now I am not to sure if the system would transfer over to skills, I will think about it.  
   
Any other comments?

HellMoo or some such thing, had a chargen that was like that.  You started out in a room and had to make it to shelter from an eathquake or some other such thing, (it's been awhile) and the items you took with you and a couple other variables dictated what your stats would be.

It was a cool idea, but it could be really confusing.  It's more of a chargen for experianced players.

(Edit: I was wrong, it was not Rastus MOO, I don't know where I got that from, me == idiot.)

(Edited by Nemisis at 7:44 pm on April 3, 2006)

You mean something along the lines of..

A man walks along the edge of the line, he spots you, and obviously thinks you are an easy mark, so he jumps in line, right in front of you!

You can [A] try to muscle your way past the man with brute strength or try to talk with the man, hoping he'll listen to sense.

A being a strength and agil raise..
B being a charisma and intel raise..

That kind of thing?

Doesnt Shattered Kingdoms do that as well? I know that is a MUD, and MUD's pale in comparison to MOO's, but I think they do something like that.

I personally think Chargen is okay how it is now and I'm satisfied with the stat/skill system.

Maybe someday… it will be cleaned up a little for punctuation and organization, make it a little prettier. And add a seperate entry process for GOLD sector.

The whole idea of automatically assigning stats based on some interactive thing just doesn't work... For the MOO you mentioned, I found it entirely ridiculous. First of all, everyone starts out in the same place, with the same house, with the same friend, with the same shit in the same places.

I don't find it realistic at all. If say, every character gets confronted by the same thug in the shuttle station, so therefore your character chooses to push past the thug... suddenly your character will be stronger than average? What's the point? I don't see why you must be strong then. What if your character is just a psycho and doesn't care about attacking people who are bigger than them? Then attacking the dude would mean he's kind of wild, not that he's strong... What if he is extremely agile but not particularly tall or broad? Then he wouldn't attack the guy, he might try and trip him or something..

In the example Nemisis gave, why does "muscling past someone by brute force" mean an agility raise?? WHy does talking to someone who cut in front of you make your more charismatic and intelligent??

You'd need tons and tons of different options to make it worthwhile. Players need to have a diverse set of stats and skills or else this game will suck. #s just do the job more efficiently and with greater choice and flexibility.  

The MOO you just talked about had the process happen in childhood, so there was this subconcious thing going that made a little more sense. If say, your preference is for a water pistol when your 8 yrs old and you end up being a good shot with a pistol when your older, that's slightly believable, esepecially since you have like only a few minutes to live before the nuclear apocalypse so you pick your favorite thing. But every new player still has the same house, the same backyard, the same porch, the same chest on the same second floor... that kind of pisses me off.

     I have to agree and disagree with what BuddaBrand has said on the subject.
    First I don't thing that chargen is okay, otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread.  I think that there is vast room for improvement to a system that seems to have been left behind by the game itself.  It works okay, and so it has been left behind while other parts of the game have been expanded and improved.  Hell, even Johnny has said that there is going to be a revamped chargen.  Of course that is probably low on his list of priorities right now, and all I am doing is making suggestions and spittballing Ideas.  If some of the stuff we talk about make it into the process, great, otherwise it gives us stuff to talk about.
   Secondly, I don't think that the stats/skills system is adequate.  Mainly because I am a game mechanics geek and I want to see how shit works behind the scenes.  I understand the reluctance to reveil to much to the players, mostly because I have had my dealings with munchkins and other powergamers.  But using limited points to manipulate stats and skills only labeled with arbitrary words is very frustrating for me.  I want to go one way, give us the actual numbers we need to make our decisions on, or go the other way and leave the points out of it until the players actually enter the gameworld and start spending ue.
    I do agree with you on the fact that a babblescript way of determining stats would take a ton of options.  We need a variety of characters in the game, not just carbon copies of Ganger A, Corpie B, and Judge C.  And I think that if it is used, it should be set mostly in the past as opposed to present tense.   Basicly the entire thing would have to be driven by a decision tree that would give Bool a screaming migraine.  This is not saying that it is not possible, but that it would be very complex and a great drain on Admin resources.
    However, there would be a couple of benifits to using it.  First, if there is a record of the decisions made by the player it could be used as a framework for a default history, one that would reflect character stats.  Secondly, if it is done properly the character would not only have Stats but skills, gear and status as well.  Finally the player would have a little taste of what the gameworld will be like and what sort of decisions will be required of them during play.  Past as prolog if you will.
   Of course the only reason I am defending this idea is that I like to debate.  Nemisis and ReeferMadness can probably come up with a better argument because it is mostly their Idea.  I could give a flying rat's ass either way.  I just want the system to change.

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