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Cost of cars

I understand why the cost of cars has gone up astronomically and I agree with basic the reasoning, but the way it is now it is practically impossible for anyone to buy a Holden. Maybe this is the way it should be and I think the price of luxury cars, if thats what the Holden really is, should be frighteningly expensive.

But the lowest end model, the little 'Mono' thing, is still insanely expensive. Like half a low ranking corpies entire yearly salary. While this may be 'realistic' I think it sucks. We have no taxis in game right now. What is the rationale for making the inferior cars so damn expensive?

Also… since the prices have changed, I think it's appropriate to at least make some cosmetic adjustments to the cars that were bought -prior- to the price change (late model/used, etc.) in order to justify why some people who normally would never be able to afford one already have one.

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 9:56 pm on April 28, 2006)

Expense it?

I don't think this would be done unless the game was somehow flooded with chy. Typically, its not about keeping cars away from corpies they're concerned about…itz dem mixers.

Quote: from BuddhaBrand on 9:50 pm on April 28, 2006[br]I understand why the cost of cars has gone up astronomically and I agree with basic the reasoning, but the way it is now it is practically impossible for anyone to buy a Holden. Maybe this is the way it should be and I think the price of luxury cars, if thats what the Holden really is, should be frighteningly expensive.

But the lowest end model, the little 'Mono' thing, is still insanely expensive. Like half a low ranking corpies entire yearly salary. While this may be 'realistic' I think it sucks. We have no taxis in game right now. What is the rationale for making the inferior cars so damn expensive?

Also… since the prices have changed, I think it's appropriate to at least make some cosmetic adjustments to the cars that were bought -prior- to the price change (late model/used, etc.) in order to justify why some people who normally would never be able to afford one already have one.

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 9:56 pm on April 28, 2006)


As I understand it, they raised prices along with corporate salary. People who have a Holden prior to the price boost still had to save a LONG ass time to get that 150k ride.

You're right it sucks for all those players who never thought to get a car cheap when they could have. It also sucks that the corporate players weren't getting paid what they should have been. All the mixers were making tons more chyen doing runs, than the corpies. It is much more balanced now and I don't know why cars were released with such a low price point in the first place because now there are way too many mixers with cars. I do like your suggestion, Buddha, about possibly modifying descriptions to suggest older models and some wear & tear.

The prices are fair (real world comparative now) and definitely in the range of corporate players. It would only take a few months for a Judge or other high ranking corpie to buy one of those lower end cars on salary alone. Guess what people.. there are other ways to make lots of money! If you're corporate and don't feel you are making enough, maybe you should look at trying to get a raise.

There have been points during my time playing that I've had enough to buy a car or two, and it would sure be convienient, but I just don't think it's IC for a mixer, even a rich mixer to buy a brand new luxuary car.

I think that it would be more IC to have something of a used car lot (Kros?) where you can buy shit box cars that possibly have a set time (that the player might not know) before they simply break down and don't start anymore, at which time they need to go see a mechanic (it would give any Mechanic players something to do!).

Is it a little bit of overkill to be making corpies wait something like seven months to be able to traverse the dome freely? Cabs are still dead. The levs suck. Finding rp topside is always a challenge. At least with mobility a few corpies can get together for a fancy pants party.  Meh. None of this is pertinent in the least; I'm just disgruntled.
I'd guess that corpie salaries were increased proportionally to the cars. Holden is now five times more expensive then it was before. I'm assuming average corpie salaries went up by around five times as well, so it would still roughly take the same amount of time.

Corpie salaries at the starting level are basically low. This means living on Green is pointless if you want to save money for a car or buy anything fancy (and time, since taking the Lev to work is your only option). Living expenses on Green would mean around two years starting salary to buy a MONO. This means salary increases are vital, because the starting salary is still a barrier to entry to the slightly more upscale corpie life.

I'm guessing a basic corpie job is basically somewhere a little above your crap corpie job (i.e. waitress or something).

My suggestion is make Mono's 150,000. Make Duos 250,000. Koi at 450,000 and keep Holdens at 750,000. I mean, a Mono is practically like a scooter right? It's like a Smart car or something. At least give us easier access to transport. The high end stuff will remain high end but the fact is, Corpies dont have much to play with. What exists should at least be made accessible in some form.

I don't want to  take the discussion away from cars but I just want to get some stuff off my chest anyway….

So entry level corpie jobs are still pretty crap. Not as bad as working in the food court at Cordoba, but not enough to buy decent a car after a year without living in a cube hotel.

Oddly the actual positions/responsibilities, from my experience, don't really synch with the salaries. For instance, lab workers doing research IRL who are entrusted with vital company secrets get paid a lot more than your average manager at McDonalds. They don't have to sleep in cube hotels or save every penny for a year (i.e. no TVs, no hiring people for work) just to buy a family car.

What I'm saying is, maybe corpie jobs should more realistically reflect the pay scale, if we -are- trying to be realistic with the pay scale at the end of the day.

Anyway, the whole job system corpie wise is beginning not to make sense in my head anyway. It doesn't have any direction. The corps aren't alive in Withmore City.

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 3:02 pm on May 1, 2006)

New vehicles are in the works. Bicycles, motorcycles, skateboards, etc. etc. These will be the low-end everyday mixer transportation. I don't know who is working on these or if any progress has been made (kind of like the broken taxi problem), but that's the situation. Until then, prices will remain as they are for cars. Remember folks, since we don't have breaking/entering or vehicle combat yet, these are mobile rooms where players tend to idle/sleep/store gear. Not that I condone doing that, but it's a pretty damn good deal regardless what price you've paid or will pay in the future.
I dunno about car prices increasing proportionally with salaries. For example, a holden costing 150k at the time a corpie is paid 7.5k a week. So lets say the holden price is multiplied by 5. Then the low-level salary would be around 37k a week. If that what you're making. Power to you.

Yes, you can live out of your car. Is it IC? Sometimes. I've known my share of chums who have done it. It can be stylish…but it can also be unneccesary. BuddhaBrand makes a good point saying corporations are dead...its hard to maintain ongoing events, drama, even a corporate voice without the grid, other corpies, and that sense of hustle topside. Its great to be able to collect priceless treasures, and tons of useless crap in your 16k a week VP pad...but if you have no one to show it off too: whats the point?

Honestly, I think we just need more corpies and a means to participate with the rest of the dome. AKA the mix. All work and no play make jack a dull boy. Sure, we can still banter on SIC and try and figure out whose are bigger...but what kind of corpie does that?

If we can't get the grid working, maybe some NPC icons are in order. Celebrity skin. CEO's. Contacts. CoNtAcTs. CONTACTS.

I've gone off on a horrible tangent and I don't even play often enough to really know the truth of the matter...so mind my words.

Otherwise, cars are about style. If you live in your car and you're a corpie you probably won't be accorded much respect: regardless of your charisma and intelligence, bub. Everything is about style, if you don't live up to your walk...it'll bite you in the ass. When you're a corpie: you are what you own. The paycheck should always reflect that.

Quote: from FireStorm on 3:03 pm on May 1, 2006[br]New vehicles are in the works. Bicycles, motorcycles, skateboards, etc. etc. These will be the low-end everyday mixer transportation. I don't know who is working on these or if any progress has been made (kind of like the broken taxi problem), but that's the situation.

-I- was working on all of the above… ;) I hope to god you're refering to someone else who has been working on them more recently... :D

Hi FS.

Hey hey.. Yeah, I was. Otherwise they probably would have been finished. *eyes*
Alright, it was wishful thinking that salaries were raised proportionally. So basically its going to take like three times the amount of time required previously for corpies to get any car.

Ok.

Either your job rate wasn't changed or perhaps you're not fully understanding how things work. xhelp an admin and ask, because as far as I can see the jobs that were adjusted and the price of cars makes sense. Both are equivalent to real world prices and wages.

How long does it take you, not your character, to save up enough money to buy a car?

C'mon, Firestorm.  Who really wants to have to save as long as it takes IRL to buy something ingame?  ;)  The tempo of things like that in a text game need to be quicker than reality.  Whether or not it is I don't know, since I'm quite out of the loop.
Yeah I know Damon.. that is true, but unlike IRL there are more ways to make money. Selling gear, selling information, selling your body. lol Okay, maybe some of you already do this IRL, but you're probably making a lot more than you would at some crappy job right? :P

It -is- feasible to make money in the game and I think players need something big to strive for. This is but one of those things.

I agree, I won't feel so bad about buying a car if I have to, and manage to save up 750,000 chyen to do it.
I think the salary system is great, it's balanced and appropriate, and my chars salary was definitely boosted.

Keeping living costs to the bare, bare minimum (i.e. cheapest housing, occasional clone updates, and maybe one food item a day, and -nothing- else) it would take me over 6 and a half months to buy a Mono.

It would take me over THIRTEEN months to buy a Koi (practically saving every penny). Presumably due to wage increases this would be reduced.

But still, the problem I see here is that the price of basic transport (i.e. a Mono) is a huge reason to hoarde cash. If you are set on getting a car and   you dont want to wait 12 friggin months you basically can't do anything but save. So no hiring people, no nothing.

And as for alternative means of income, I  don't think that makes too much sense. I think corpies  should be able to get at  least a Mono without having to risk criminality (i.e. a sure way to end up homeless and jobless).

… I mean, Corpies are  not -supposed- to be Red-style hustlers. There are Corpies that behave that way, but I don't think thats part of the essential character brief. 'Selling gear' makes no sense. Corpies get gear  from stores where prices are expensive. Other corpies do the same.  Who are you supposed to sell  to?

The job market between Corpies is practically null because there are so few corpies. Corpies selling their bodies? They sell their SOULS  not their bodies every damn  day  at  work.

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 11:46 am on May 3, 2006)

Quote: from BuddhaBrand on 9:50 pm on April 28, 2006[br]Also… since the prices have changed, I think it's appropriate to at least make some cosmetic adjustments to the cars that were bought -prior- to the price change (late model/used, etc.) in order to justify why some people who normally would never be able to afford one already have one.


I agree with you to an extent, but I think that all vehicle sshould have timers… and when these timers hit certain points, they begin to fall apart. Because if someone buys a brand new car, and then the prices go up, their brand new car shouldnt be affected. But all cars could have timers which would go off and certain things would stop working. Maybe a certain part on the Holden is faulty and is very notorious of falling apart.

There are cheaper cars than a mono. Just need to find 'em.
Sheesh, should have bought a car when they were cheap, could have.
Doesn't matter now anyway, my char was deleted I think *~*. Didn't get a warning email either…

Oh, and hey ross, welcome back ^_~

I'm not back, I'm just loitering and watching these discussions go round in circles.
Haha, nice one
It's not really the point that there are cheaper cars, simply that the Mono is a single-seated go-cart on steroids…I mean basically that's the idea I'm getting. �It's gotta be smaller than a GEO...and those things are like 10k IRL...least they were last I seen one. �Now, I'm not completely sure on the �chyen exchange rate, but if the timeline is any inclination, chyen is 1/2 the US dollar..
Sooo...howcome a single-seated vehicle is $125,000 US?
A Geo for 10k? Holy jesus….
Unless I am mistaken, one US dollar is 20 chyen.

And don't forget inflation!

Why do people even refer to real world prices?

Surely design decisions should be based on design? I'd like to think SDs design isn't absolute mimickery of the real world, what would be the point?

Saying that, increasing their prices does help keep them out of the hands of the mixers, which I'd say supports a social devide design.
But, couldn't that perhaps be dealt with by having background checks?
You can't buy a car on Gold if you've got a criminal record for instance.
Or if there was a way to easily identify if someone is a mixer (in code terms), the sales people at the car place could simply refuse to "serve scum like yourself, now get out of here before I call the WJF".

(maybe cars could be ordered with/without a deposit, but importantly you must give an apartment address. - only those living on green can have a car. The car peeps can get your details from your SIC, and it would show if you're on the apartment database or something).

Then the mixers might respond by making shitty old bangers that, like was said could break down.

Mixers shouldn't be served should they? They'd either get their cars by making their own ones - crappy bangers, combat cars with plating welded to the front, or by hijacking shipments of the latest top cars.

Err yeah, I'm out of it, that'll do.

That's probably the best idea to resolve this issue I've heard so far.  I really like it :P

Reverse the prices, an make it so dirty mixers can't buy that brand new Holden, it only makes sense.

And yes, brand new Geo, 10k.  I know, nuts huh?

I suppose I'm somewhat biased though, as a somewhat 'corpie' character, I don't want to wait so damn long for a car.  I don't want it to reflect reality that damn much…I want my car faster than that.  Just seems like a waste, especially if my cheap little car can only drive -ME- around.  Gimme my go-cart!  *chuckles*

After some consideration…

I don't think it's too, too bad.. the cost of cars. I mean, the biggest issue is that in a city as congested as withmore, only the wealthy even drive little go-carts.

Space is at such a premium youre practically paying the rent for the volume that your car encloses in that original pric, relative to the entire dome spacee. If you look at it that way, and considering you can park the damn things just about anywhere, that space is damn cheap.

I guess the price of ethanol is like a kind of tax incurred just by moving.

Shit is expensive in the dome. Cars are for middling corpie chars... Way it was before someone could by a holden practically after just a couple months, considering the jacked up salaries.

All is good in my mind.

Expense it.
Yeah, I wish. Corpie-side is like a ghost town though for months now. No grid, no response to grid mail… I don't know...
Yeah, generally I'm a pretty laid back guy, but this lack of the grid is really starting to chaffe.  I used the grid quite a bit even as a mixer, now…I wish I could so much more as it's application was used then to simply talk Icly...now I could -really- use it.

Where's the Johnny?!
Where's the Damon?!

I demand a fix!!  *runs and hides*