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e-note, letters, data and you

There is a problem right now - the IC way to keep data handy for your character is extremely OOCly unwieldy. And I consider that a problem because I love for stuff to be ICly complicated, requiring tech skills etc, but if something is annoying to use on OOC level, that creates a problem and will make people avoid it. It's just like humans are, we don't want to do annoying things.

There are three primary tools for storing IC data:

1. Memory. Which requires OOC flexing to use the most of it, as it is limited per line. So to effectively use it, unless your int is high, you have to do stuff like c1:12232

Oh great, forum stole my post. Reminds me of the -notes and how annoying they are.

I can't retype it from memory, but the point is that with letters we can't add to, or organize them in any way shape or form. And e-notes while a great idea, they are extremely unwieldy to use, on OOC, not IC level. That is crux of the issue, as if those tools were made not-annoying to use, they would be used more. And yes, I am now very aware that it is required by rules, but following those are detrimental to RP. Some may say not very, but for me they are actually massive, as I have extremely bad memory IRL, needing to note down pretty much everything just to remember whatever happened, and this is not something I want to have to roleplay.

So I note OOCly, as I don't want my PC to cripple. I would love to use IC tools for it instead, but trying to make equivalent of it with the existing tools is extremely frustrating to me, the player, not my character.

And my point is that while I agree with the rule, and see how it is beneficial to have this stuff written down and ready for stealing, there needs to be some compromise to make it easy for players to follow those rules. And this can be done by making the tools less pain in the ass. Just having memory go by total amount of characters, rather than lines, or letters you can append to, would make lots of difference.

I'd like to quickly go over a few things. I understand your issue is that you dislike the way the current IC methods of remembering or documenting IC information work. That is completely fine, your opinion is valid. There are certainly ways we can improve on this just like anything within the game, certainly nothing is perfect.

However, the following is not acceptable:

From your post "And yes, I am now very aware that it is required by rules, but following those are detrimental to RP. Some may say not very, but for me they are actually massive, as I have extremely bad memory IRL, needing to note down pretty much everything just to remember whatever happened, and this is not something I want to have to roleplay. So I note OOCly, as I don't want my PC to cripple. I would love to use IC tools for it instead, but trying to make equivalent of it with the existing tools is extremely frustrating to me, the player, not my character. And my point is that while I agree with the rule, and see how it is beneficial to have this stuff written down and ready for stealing, there needs to be some compromise to make it easy for players to follow those rules."

You are stating that you completely understand and even agree with a rule, and despite that, are breaking and will continue to break that rule because you don't like it. This is that rule:

Under Rules, section 1. Cheating:

1.F. - Metagaming is the act of crossing IC/OOC lines either passively or

actively. For instance, using information you as the player know to

benefit (or even hinder) your character is active metagaming as is

circumventing IC factors (such as SIC dead zones) via OOC methods.

Yes, our IC methods of recording data can be improved. No, you can't use that as an excuse to break the rules and metagame by saving IC information off the MOO in an OOC way.

I am more than happy to go over XHELP with an example of my notes later today (I must head to a meeting in 20 minutes) to show that the ones I keep are not of any advantage, I hope - if you guys decide that they are - will stop doing them, though likely it will cause my RP to be a lot more erratic and incosistent. It's mostly my personal notes on interactions with characters etc. More like roleplay log so I can remember what my character did, anything more than that I add with @add-note. I don't use it to keep phone numbers, cube codes, intel dossiers or anything else like that.
1.F. - Metagaming is the act of crossing IC/OOC lines either passively or

actively. For instance, using information you as the player know to

benefit (or even hinder) your character is active metagaming as is

circumventing IC factors (such as SIC dead zones) via OOC methods.

it's the other way around, I use the notes to update me, as a player, what my character did, not to update my character with OOC knowledge. As i often lose track as quickly as scene ends, of if it's a long one - towards the end.

Can empathize with this. ☹️

I'm gradually moving more notes from "in my character's head / scrawled illegibly IC to anyone but me" to "on an e-note / on the grid."

If I were able to be my character 24/7, my character would definitely have time to do this. But IC events are so fast and so plentiful that you can't write an e-note on-the-fly.

(Also it's LITERALLY impossible to do it on mobile. Tabbing out causes your character to get disconnected, making e-notes/grid posts impossible to write while IC.)

Also if you're writing an e-note or grid post without copy/pasting ICly and you get disconnected you lose EVERYTHING you wrote. I've lost so much simply because the game disconnects you if you walk in range of WiFi. 😤

So yeah. Working on it. 😬

To clarify, its totally fine to use an off moo document -while- using an IC method, because of connection issues/formatting. For example, I write out a resume in a word document, and then I copy paste it into a letter in the moo. Or I write out a bank heist plan I need to give to my friend in a word doc and when its all formatted and nice, I copy paste it into my e-note to hand to that friend.

Using off-MOO programs for OOC formatting is 100% fine. Saving IC info in off-MOO programs is not.

That seems a little bit at odds with the built-in and seemingly encouraged (every time you log out it prompts you) logging ability of the browser client. For that matter, even the current client buffer. How is that reconciled? I've occasionally gone back to reference what someone looks like because I've read their description quickly but didn't parse it in my brain.
Looking back through scroll to get information is a grey area but it shouldn't be used as a permanent eidetic memory that lets you recall anything in perfect detail from your current play session.

In these cases, use your best judgement of fair play. Are you trying to remember that guy you looked at in the bar you just left? Did you leave 5 minutes ago, or 5 hours ago? Is your character smart or perceptive enough to remember that the guy had black hair and a green leather jacket that said 'RAD' on it, or do they also remember he had a rose tattoo with a date on his neck in tiny letters as well?

In the end its about fair play and what makes sense based on your character and circumstance, and as always if you need guidance, XHELP if you need a self meta-check.

@ExMachinae That seems a little bit at odds with the built-in and seemingly encouraged (every time you log out it prompts you) logging ability of the browser client. For that matter, even the current client buffer. How is that reconciled?

For what it's worth, that doesn't work on mobile.

Good advice, Dreamer.

I generally find it better RP if I don't remember someone, anyway, so I usually go off my own personal memory.

I'll add, I think it would be nice to be able to append to a letter. Maybe a fixed number of times before you 'run out of room' on the page. I think that would encourage using it for notes, phone numbers, descriptions, etc. The more we simplify the IC storage of knowledge the greater potential for paydata and the greater potential for RP.

An alternate idea would be a notebook, where when you write to it it spits out a letter (similar to an e-print) and has a certain number of pages, and costs a similar amount to (costofletter*numberofpages). That would be a nice inbetween for letters and e-notes, and again have that paydata potential.

Being able to add to letters or notes in an efficient way (APPEND "words" TO LETTER) or (APPEND "words" TO "file" ON E-NOTE) would make a world of difference.
Please, adding a way to append things would be tremendously useful instead of deleting and rewriting the same note with a new snippet every time