Just my opinion, thanks so much.
I know we're all used to being able to sit down and chat up a character, and have our own reasons for having our chars liking/disliking others...maybe this whole language thing is just another reason to create tension between characters.
It's tough with a small playerbase but I think it would be really cool once you have enough people to let the code influence the friends you make.
Maybe i have it all backwards..you folks are the experts.
All in all, I like it though. :)
Character A talks in Mixmash all the time, never speaking english, yet still puts UE into english and learns it over time.
Character B wants to learn english, and puts UE into it. They talk in English all the time. But they still learn at the same rate as Character A who never speaks it at all.
It would be cool if there was a system in place that took into account how much you speak a language, or how much you hear a language. And let you learn a bit that way.
Character A wouldn't be assigning UE in the spirit of the game.
Wouldn't be the first person to say a learning system would be a good thing either.
… It's realistic. Almost too realistic ...
That's our motto here at Tyrrell Corp, more real than real!
Look at it however you want, I'm just saying that I was finally getting some serious and dramatic RP in and it was nearly ruined several times because of this.
Of course, I always thought that RP was the real goal here, but I might be mistaken.
Of course, I always thought that RP was the real goal here, but I might be mistaken.
Yeah. Namely Realistic RP. In reality people have language barriers and other barriers to communication.
I couldn't possibly immagine a senario where RP is 'ruined' by a language barrier. Made more difficult sure, but RPing getting around the language barrier -IS- RP. It forces you to use things OTHER THAN WORDS (heaven forbid you back up your words with poses… hand gestures, facial expressions, etc.) to communicate.
Just the other day I jumped into an NPC who spoke very little English for the first time. My initial reaction was to pump some more skill into his english so I could have some clue what these people were saying... but then I got really into the RP involved in trying to commuicate my intentions without words, and it was a very rewarding experience.
When we first turned on the new speaking system which prevented everyone from hearing everything in the room people complained because they were now missing out on potentially large pieces of the conversation. But people quickly adapted and even came to appreaciate the merits of such a system, and the new levels of RP it provided.
I submit that this is no different. I'm sure your used to everyone speaking the same language, and are confused and bewildered that the immigrants from Japan suddenly don't speak english very well, but I'm sure you'll adjust.
And I completely agree with Lena: If you're annoyed, your character very well might be annoyed at that point too. Minus points towards your relationship with the other character–>conflict-->non-fluffy inter-character dynamic stuffies. I know we're all used to being able to sit down and chat up a character, and have our own reasons for having our chars liking/disliking others...maybe this whole language thing is just another reason to create tension between characters.
*GASP*! Tension? Conflict? Agravation? Segregation? Naw…. no way. We don't need thoes thing in a CP world.
-Kevlar
Artificially-generated conflict is another. Forced conflict, yet another.
That said, I'm actually rather happy with the language system at this point.. my previous comment doesn't pertain to it at all. I just don't know if I'd agree that the language system serves its purpose because it frustrates people.
Quote: from Lena on 9:19 pm on Mar. 26, 2004[br]I dunno, I agree a bit.I know we're all used to being able to sit down and chat up a character, and have our own reasons for having our chars liking/disliking others…
That's what I'm trying to say. I don't see anything especially hare-brained about having our -own- reasons for.. well, anything. Kinda seems like the whole point, if you ask me.
It's usually not too hard to hazard a guess what someone's saying anyway, and if you draw the wrong conclusion, it could create some good RP.
I can understand how people would be upset because they can no longer create thier very own soap opera quite so easily, but, oh well. Sucks to be you.
And IT'S FUN!
I make him signal people, mimic actions, and even let it pass.
Example : 'You point lager and beer on the menu and shrug at the customer.'
Of course some day he will get some speed-course on a couple of languages, so he can understand what the hell are the customers calling him.
But in overall the languages are great! It gets the RP more fun than a series of 'to's and a couple of chuckle, grin, laugh and eye.
Now, if everyone (for instance) had English and then knew a second language. That'd be different. You'd think there'd be a 'set' language that MOST people would have. Right now, it's english. Maybe it's something different in the future... I dunno.
It just seems really really unneccesary in my opinion to keep people from communicating.
It just seems really really unneccesary in my opinion to keep people from communicating.
From everything I've seen, it's not kept anyone from communicating; It's only forces people with different ethnic backgrounds to work harder at effective communication. And once again, I reiterate: This is very realistic.
You have the tools: Free emotes and poses, and SIC. If your not able to us speech, try using something else. It works!
I'm interested to hear what else you think is 'unnecessary' because it makes the game harder to play in the name of 'realistic interaction'. Encrypted SIC? You can't understand thoes. Social classes? Thoes definately keep you on the outside. Localized speech? Do you think we should go back to everyone in the bar hearing every single conversation too?
I suppose you think we should not be focusing on realism, conflict, tension, and adversity, and instead make everything easy and simple for you so you don't have to actually work to get ahead. Let's just remove all the barriers in the game while we're at it, because clearly anything which prevents you from having an easy time is bad for the game. Next your going to say that people who are greviously wounded shouldn't walk slower because that's 'really annoying and actually cuts off from RP rather than help it… ', and people should always be able to escape combat because you might die, and dying is 'really annoying and actually cuts off from RP rather than help it... '
Yeah, yeah. That's the ticket.
-Kevlar
Add some stress to the situation and you get downright comical (in a "we'll look at this 5 years from now and laugh" sort of a way.) Even fluency in a non-native language doesn't guarantee understanding. Certain subtleties in vocabulary and meaning can get lost in the shuffle. And some people are more or less adept at being clear and to the point. ;)
Seems to me all that languages would cause is less witty one-liners and to borrow a phrase, soap opera dialogue and more body language, descriptions and a frantic IC need to be understood? Agreed with some of the observations in this thread. Maybe the injected frustration of the language system will force players to work around the shortcomings of our pretty little text-based medium and write a bit more descriptively?
Now I just need to run across a situation in game where languages are used… :|
First time I saw it in action though, it did sort of make me…double over laughing. I thought someone was having a very, very severe case of typo demon possession.
When I got sick of hearing the same ol' the-more-your-fucked -the more-you-should-enjoy-it.-----> Long Ago.
my thoughts IC'ly on the subject
o 0 O (for fuck's sake speak english or die.)
:)
As it stands, it takes incredible amounts of UE to learn a language to a point where you can understand it to some degree...
It seems to me that this would be a perfect way to have IC action points. If someone is speaking or listening to someone speak another language, maybe they can slowly earn 'free' language credits. It seems to me that this would be something picked up from RP. Of course, those points could only take you so far. Enough to get by in a situation, but not fluently speak the language.
Just an idea.
Everything is building blocks really. One system is put in, then advanced, then used as the foundation for a new system.
In this case, I see the perfect potential for…bum-bada-bummmm...SKILL SOFTS! That's right, you too can have a chip slot slammed into the back of your skull and if you have the chyen, you can jam a lingual translation chip in there! Yes, understand that Japanese diplomat as if you were born Japanese! All for only 24,999 chyen!
It has been batted about, it has been talked about, and it will be made.
And, as always, there is -NO- timeline on when, so don't even freakin ask.
:)
Whens that gunna be coded?
Alright, that was a low blow. It was only a joke. Seriously.
But I think thats a great idea, there could even be low grade ones.. like.. a box, that you have to hold, and when you talk into it, it translates and a computer voice talks for you and shit, translating. That would be cool.
Basically, skill chips will give you the ability up to a point, but once you 'use' them you are 'stuck' at that skill level. You can not apply experiance to it to make it get 'better'. (It is software in your head.) You increase the skill level by purchasing a better upgrade to the skill. (In this case languages.)
If I remember correctly (It has been a long time since I played CP2020) the skill chips only went so 'good'. The only way to get to the really high end was to work at the skill from scratch until you were good at it…
Anyhow...
Quote: from Iga on 9:52 am on June 8, 2004[br]For anyone who has played CP2020 the 'skill chip' concept should be fairly understandable.Basically, skill chips will give you the ability up to a point, but once you 'use' them you are 'stuck' at that skill level. You can not apply experiance to it to make it get 'better'. (It is software in your head.) You increase the skill level by purchasing a better upgrade to the skill. (In this case languages.)
If I remember correctly (It has been a long time since I played CP2020) the skill chips only went so 'good'. The only way to get to the really high end was to work at the skill from scratch until you were good at it…
Anyhow...
From the top of my mind being a CP2020 Referee (GM) :
Skill Chips aren't the same as experience, you don't know how to do it, the chip does it for you. You can't learn from from a chip nor can you add the chip to a skill you already have as a bonus.
Chips go from +1 to +3 and that's it. With +1 being the first rank and +10 godlike, we would achieve the maximiun rank (+3) of, i think, average on the SD skill progression with the expensiver of the chips.
They also do have a exponential progression on price, the cheapest one being like 3k eurodollars (in CP2k20) and the expensiver one getting to 30k. Also there are skills that are cheaper than others. Languages would fall on the cheapest scale as it is a passive skill. In terms of SD I would say, drawing numbers out from my ass, the cheapest language chip (+1) would be something like 20k chyen and the expensiver (+3/average) would reach easyly the 100k price label on it.
Of course that doesn't include the implant to attach the chips into. But it covers the medical procedure to tune them to your brain's wavelenght and shit like that.
Quote: from Iga on 10:48 am on June 8, 2004[br]We had a CP2020 Gm who was flexible with that chip rule. We once paid out a hefty sum to get a +5 chip…
I had an adventure where when you putted a certain number of chips in you, it unlocked a hidden code inside them that let the chip company controll you for a certain ammount of time.
It was fun to have the players wake up in jail being accused of crimes they didn't tought they did.
More fun was when they started to get greedy with their chips and refusing to take them off before court.
