RE: The TAKFAR/Kev issue

I'm reposting this without the attached link, as I agreed with Johnny before he'd unban me.

I don't often comment on much on these boards but, being someone who's played for ages, I'm going to comment on this one.

Leaving chargen is character defining, because you might happen to try and RP, which in turn could define your character, don't bitch at people because they're using the system exactly as it's able to be used, fix the bloody system so that people without histories -can't- kill unless attacked, fix the system so that people without histories -can't- pickpocket, people shouldn't be punished because a system that was coded, failed to take into account something that -isn't- against the rules.

>> You weren't treated any differently than any other player would have been. You weren't treated unfairly. You were playing the game incorrectly, especially when you of all people should know better, and then instead of actually being mature and play the game properly, you decided to toss insults over xhelp and try and make the Administrators of this game look bad on this forum.

I recall quite vividly a patch where we got alot of thieves, most of which didn't have histories if I'm not mistaken, these people were dealt with through IC means.

Now, it is �easy- to make modifications to code so that the things you say are against the @rules, aren�t possible, three lines of code in steal, and three lines of code in kill, -immaterial- of the current status of either verbs, I�ll make it easy for you, for instance, if the property to designate if someone has an approved history is player.approved_history, and your handling it numerically, you add this;

If (!player.approved_history)
Return player:tell(�You can�t do that until your history is approved.�);
Endif

And Legba, please leave your comments out, since I know $watcher�s don�t have access to any of the programmers utilities, such as @list, so you couldn�t even view the kill or thievery code even if you wanted to.

-That- is it, it takes basically the same amount of lines, even if you re-route the checking to another verb, so as to make the code easier to understand.
Players shouldn�t be punished because of laziness on any administrators part, or for any other oversight on the administrations part, Rastus was playing with good faith. �I- have stolen from a sleeper before without a history before, -I- have killed without a history before, Gerik went nearly two months without a history.

I was not punished once for this, I�d also like someone to show me the current passage in @rules that says I �can�t- kill, or steal without a history, Kevlar needs a severe re-grounding, and Legba, you need to get off your high-horse,

Lesse:

Only one that comes within continents of what you guys are saying is this:

1.A. Bugs in Code

Our programmers are not perfect and some of the code they write will have
errors, tracebacks (TBs) and various 'holes' in them. If you discover one
of these 'holes' it is your duty to @bug it. It's understood that you
won't always know a bug when you see one, but intentional abuse of these
'holes' is against the rules.

Use of code exactly as coded and intended is �not- a code loophole, nor is it an error, you can�t punish someone for using something which was coded to handle every player object identically, immaterial of whether they were approved or not.

I've -always- thought of the $void as a punishment, and I'm sure most players do too, I think that people should be asked to do something, if they don't comply within a reasonable timeframe, -then- they get voided.

If my memory serves me correctly, doesn't it even SAY you must have done something very bad to be put there ($void)?

yeah it said you must have done something to be put here and something about your player bit you right?

I've always seen the void as the "you've done something �bad" ropm.

(Edited by Jotun at 8:24 pm on July 13, 2003)

�fix the bloody system so that people without histories -can't- kill unless attacked, fix the system so that people without histories -can't- pickpocket, people shouldn't be punished because a system that was coded, failed to take into account something that -isn't- against the rules.

yeah you can't expect that everyone will think a history is "of extreme importance". �before playing here "histories" or pasts or whatever were an unnecessary, but cool accessory to RP, now that I've had multiple chars. with approved histories (oh yeah and a couple without) I understand the desire for the admin here to use your history as a loose rp guide, as well as making the char more valuable to you. not that I completely agree, but we're all human, In any case I like the game so If admins want me to write a history they got it.

but If you don't want people to to do something without a history code for it. �but if you code disallowing killing/stealing/whatever �you may want to allow working without a history. �It will not only give a new char. some chyen, but something mundane to do while writing a history.

$void
The void… Nothing... No-where... You float through the endless nothingness of the void, surrounded by a wierd array of things mysteriously from the world. Odd socks, pen tops, car keys and a myraid of other mysteriously vanishing items spiral lazily past.
You must have been very bad to be put here... You naughty player bit, you.
Akaru, Raven, Sobek, Shin, Johnson05100315, Marly, Free, Alexia, Maverickv1x, Karter, Natka, Suggest, Straus and Tommy are sleeping here.  
There are no visible exits.

Whadaya know? $voided today. This is what it looks like. Take notice of the line that says, "You must have been very bad to be put here...You naughty player bit, you."

Now you know why everyone feels this way.

And I'm sure we can all agree that things change, and not everything that is designed for a certain purpose, lives it's entire existance serving only that purpose.

Could the @ooc area be used, depending on the nature of the conversation? �Possibly.

I will make an effort to conduct conversations there, when possible.

As for how long a player will be away to warrant being in the $void, there is no hard and fast rule that I'm aware of. �It is, like many things, a judgement call.

A few weeks of being away from the game has not been long enough (in my experiance) to be put in the $void for safe keeping. �The players whose characters are there, are away from the game typically in time spans measured in months.

As for histories …

Once I really got into RPing games, I never had a character (whether electronic or tabletop) that I didn't have a very good idea as to what had happened to him or her before I began to play the character.

In many ways, playing a character requires the same kind of character definition a writer needs to do before writing about the character in a story.

You need to know who the character is, who they were, what defines them, who they want to be, what thier triggers are ...

The full post and thread from the below quote is available here

Quote: from Max on 9:50 am on April 4, 2003[br]
I know this character, he's in my head. �I see him, I can touch him, and smell him and hear him, and I can feel his pain.

Now, it's obvious to me that Max has done some writing in the past, but this is a perfect example of the depth of knowledge you should have about your character before you start playing and in my opinion, before you even enter char-gen.

All these things will tell you how that character will react in any given situation. �The better you know the character, the more enjoyable the RP will be, ga-run-teed!

Histories are not simply a vehicle to help you get a coded job, or for admin to poke through in an effort to make your RP more enjoyable by creating plots for you, thier main purpose is so that -you- know the character well, and so that -your- rp, that the rp of those you interact with is the best it can be.

Lujan, if this is taken out of context from your original intent, please clarify it for me.

Quote: from Lujan on 10:23 pm on July 12, 2003[br]
Leaving chargen is character defining, because you might happen to try and RP, which in turn could define your character, don't bitch at people because they're using the system exactly as it's able to be used, fix the bloody system so that people without histories -can't- kill unless attacked, fix the system so that people without histories -can't- pickpocket, people shouldn't be punished because a system that was coded, failed to take into account something that -isn't- against the rules.

The issue is not simply killing or stealing without a history, it is deeper, and more subtle than that.

Yes, leaving char-gen is character defining, as is every minute of RP, and if a character suddenly begin to act very differently from how the history (or at least the player's knowledge of how the character has acted in the past) goes, then there should be a history for the character of sudden, and possibly drastic changes to the character's behavior and or personality (maybe some mental illness in the past? �PTSD from serving in some pesthole war?), or there needs to be an IC explanation as to why the shift occurred at this point in time.

There are several characters I've seen do things that have seemed -odd- or out of character, to me, and when I asked the player about it, recieved a courteous and pleasant answer. �I went away satisfied.

I don't think any admin is out of line for attempting to find the reason (submitted history or not) for such actions, nor do I blame any admin who diciplines a player for failing to comply with a reasonable request.

As there can never be a system that is completely coded to simulate the -intent- of the staff in every possible way, there must be a bit of an honor system here. �That's one of the reasons why @bug exists. �It is a players obligation to @bug problems, not just so that they get fixed, but so they can't be exploited.

The fact that you -can- do something, does not necessarily mean you -should-. �This is true in real life, and here as well.