Existing players used to logging in with their character name and moo password must signup for a website account.
- Crooknose 1s
- Fay 9m
- SmokePotion 21s Right or wrong, I'm getting high.
- Yizhi 22s
- Sivartas 1h
- BlackSoul 1m
- Rillem 1m Make it personal.
- hex 6m
- xXShadowSlayerXx 10m
And 19 more hiding and/or disguised
Connect to Sindome @ moo.sindome.org:5555 or just Play Now

Town Hall: Movement of Goods

What follows is my log of the Sindome Town Hall Meeting hosted on Nov 13th. The only modifications have been to remove the general amount of admin-only spam that follows across my scroll. When commenting on portions of this log, please DO NOT quote the entire thing. Copy and paste -a small portion- that is just what you are commenting on. Once again, thanks to all that participated then and those that post now.

Iga says loudly, "All right, thanks, we'll move on to the next topic now. The movement of 'large scale' goods in the economy. (Guns, ammo, etc.) The lack of use of 'large scale' goods in the economy. (Guns, ammo, etc.)"
Ari raises his hand.
Trancer raises his hand
Miranda rasies a hand.
Iga [to Ari]: your up.
Ari gets up from the Bleachers.
Ari is typing.
You think . o O ( aren't we all? )
Seven is summoned in by Iga.
Seven sits down on the Bleachers.
Ari says loudly, "The game always has the 'hoarding' effect. Where people want to keep gear, and sell as little as they can for as much as they can. Economics… so we need to use economics against them. We don't need MORE gear out there, it just needs to be spread out. Have several suppliers that limit how much each 'fixer' if you will has. If others are charging lower prices, then all prices will have to go down. (GO AP Microeconomics!) Its a somewhat complicated issue, but its the biggest answer I can see. Profits are always what people have in mind, but if others are 'getting in' on their buisness... that promotes RP while keeping prices lower."
Ari nods.
Ari sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga nods.
Iga [to Trancer]: your up
Iga [to Trancer]: lo? You are up to talk.
Trancer gets up from the Bleachers.
Trancer says loudly, "Ari basically hit it, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't make sense that you can fine 23 10mm clips in the market, but 0 7mm clips (random numbers for example). Hoarding, is of course, the main problem. I know that the players with these hordes to in fact try to move them, but it's not always easy. I think a big step would be to try and offer alternative outlets for getting these items, than perhaps a handful of PC's, who may or may not be on often, or may or may not be willing to spread the wealth. But something with these -definately- needs to change."
Ari nods.
Trancer says loudly, "As I said, I think alternative outlets for these 'large scale' goods, setup by the Admin, would help greatly."
Trancer sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga nods to Trancer.
Johnny raises his hand.
Iga [to Miranda]: your up.
Miranda nods to Iga.
Aikon nods.
Miranda gets up from the Bleachers.
Miranda says loudly, "The large scale items mentioned are illegal, yes? So i think there shold definetly =be= a movement of them. However a movement hard to come by. They sholdn't be easy to get some of. �However once attained, the player sholdnt be willing to lose it easily. Bringing on the hoarding affect. �Hoarding equals bad, but some things have to be hoarded. Materials for instance for tailors. Tailors should hava constant supply of materials, they "hoard." fixers should have a supply of their drug that they "hoard" some hoarding cant be avoided, and some hoarding needs to happen. Getting into these large scale businesses should also be hard to do. Tailoring shold be the easiest then work up the ladder. There needs to be movement of some sort to stimulate the sedentary economy."
Aikon raises his hand.
Miranda smiles.
Miranda nods to Iga.
Miranda sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga [to You]: your up.
Gitzo raises its hand.
Iga [to You]: Sir? Your turn.
You say, "You have the quickterm boards, you have IC merchants and fixers, you have the market. These provide the avenues for you to do your resale. Some of you have businesses even. The hoarding happens worst when you kill each other. and when you disappear and don't return to the game."
You stand up.
You sit down on the Bleachers.
You think . o O ( damn standing )
Iga nods to you.
Iga [to Aikon]: your up
Aikon gets up from the Bleachers.
Aikon says, "regularly insert all types of ammo in the market, one of the reasons I've seen for that stuff not being used is lack of certain types of ammo, though that has slightly improved lately. more stuff would drop prices, and make stuff more avaliavle, but I'm not sure if that's the answer. �prices are pretty damn high for most of that stuff too. hoarding happens because alot of people can't afford the stuff…."
Aikon says, "I think that's it...."
Aikon sits down on the Bleachers.
Ratchet raises his hand.
Trancer nods.
Iga [to Gitzo]: your up
Gitzo says, "short and sweet. much gear -is- easy to get. the system is in place. but to get rid of it is much harder. maybe a system of getting things out of the game through fixers etc. sort of recycling through NPC's.. if that makes sense."
Miranda . o O ( recycle chute on gold? )
Aikon . o O ( who's going to throw stuff that's that expensive away )
Seven raises his hand.
Iga [to Gitzo]: done?
Gitzo nods to Iga.
Iga [to Ratchet]: your up
Ratchet gets up from the Bleachers.
Ari eyes his surroundings.
Ratchet says, "Hey, by the way in case for those of you who don't see me playing often and say "how does he have a clue" um…I am the player formerly known as Stonemonk. �anyway...i gues this is one issue that i'd turn to code on. �By nature in a game like this you collect whatever you find cuz it could come in handy. �if containers aren't in place that limit ammount of gear, then make containers mandatory, limit the number of containers that can be used in a room. �and if people throw stuff in a room, make a random item disappear "lost" if the room gets too messy."
*incoming OOC transmission from Iga* 10 minute warning on this topic*end transmission*
Ratchet sits down on the Bleachers.
Ari . o O ( KABLINKS!!!!! )
Johnny raises his hand.
Iga [to Seven]: your up
Seven gets up from the Bleachers.
Seven says "Why sell things at the market, for barly anything, when you can -eventuly- find a PC or possibly an NPC to pay more for it, hoarding is like putting money away for a rainly day. �I think thats why it happens. �If there was a system in place like Gitzo said, or just a constant way to get more money for high priced items then the markets offer, I think it would help."
Seven sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga raises a hand.
Iga [to You]: your up
You stand up.
You bow to Ratchet.
Ratchet grins mischievously.
You [to Ratchet]: wise wisdom indeed oh great monk of stone.
You sit down on the Bleachers.
Ratchet chuckles.
Iga chuckles.
Miranda oggles Ratchet.
Ari applaudses.
Tear. �–Miranda
Iga says loudly, "I have a comment about the market. The reason one doesn't get a lot of money, is because it has to do with -stats-. Players who base themselves in combat and have the social skills of a monkey can't trade for a good rate. But a player with the skills to trade can. IE: A fixer/reseller."
Iga says loudly, "My 2 cents there."
Iga asks loudly, "Any other comments?"
Ari raises his hand.
Iga [to Ari]: your up.
Ari gets up from the Bleachers.
Ari says loudly, "Just to reittorate what Iga said… perhaps those players who have such stats, and who have good social skills should be the ones who have a connection here or there. Maybe not a full scale fixer... but someone in the park who sells an item or two every few days for cheap prices. Sort of the reverse of a certain NPC already there. Depending on the skills/stats, different items at different prices. At the same time... it shouldn't ALWAYS be about stats. Most people are willing to SELL to anyone who has money. It takes a skilled person to be able to haggle down or up."
Ari sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga asks loudly, "All right. Any other comments on this topic?"
Jinkorei silently slides into the room.
Iga asks loudly, ""Going once?"
Marcus looks around the silent amphitheatre.
Ari raises his hand.
Ariel teleports in.
Iga [to Ari]:
Ari gets up from the Bleachers.
Ari points at Rat, "Word."
Ari sits down on the Bleachers.
Ariel sits down on the Bleachers.
Iga says loudly, "Last comment on this topic."
[OOC: Ari says, "Rach"]
Iga chuckles.
[OOC: Ari says, "or whatever his name is."]
Ari shrugs.

The meeting continued with the next topic.

Alright with this topic I can say a HELLUVALOT of shit.  But most of it would be IC.  So let me try to tread lightly here.

First of all, THERE IS NOT A LACK OF INSANE CRAZY GEAR.  And there is not a lack of low-end gear either.  Or anything between these two.  The problem with this really is that people are too lazy to figure out for themselves who the fixers are.  Sure there's people yelling "Who has stuff?" over NLM.  But what do you want?  Be specific, or if its illegal (as most of it is), use a codeword of something.  Maybe you want drugs?  Yell over SIC you're lookin' for candy (even though in SD drugs are not illegal, as many first believe).  Use your imaginations, people.

Also, ask your shady fellow players in bars and whatnot.  Word on the street is your best bet on RED.  And where else would you get something illegal without going through a shitload of trouble?  This is a hot-spots issue, and a getting-to-know-people-through-RP issue.  This is not a matter of economics, really.  Its a matter of RP.  

And that brings me to the price issue.  Think the price is WAY too friggin' high?  Maybe you did something that the fixer didn't like.  Maybe he doesn't like YOU.  Maybe you should try to cut a DEAL instead of saying "Oh poo, I don't have enough chyen.  I guess I'm not gonna buy anything then."  Make suggestions.  HAGGLE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.  And if the fixer won't go down?  SUCK UP TO THEM.  PROMISE THEM A SERVICE OF SOME SORT!  OR GO BORROW MONEY FROM SOMEONE ELSE!  Or if you're really desperate, borrow money from THEM, and then owe them a SHITLOAD of debt, and end up having to do their bidding for a longass time until you eventually get sick and form a gang to kick their ass?  RP guys!  And trust me, you'd be surprised at what a gang is capable of, especially against one character.

I do think however that simple things such as ammunition should be readily available in the markets at ALL times.  There's been a HUGE ammo shortage in the game lately.  I personally think it should be one of a very few things that should spawn randomly in the markets.

Also, stats should not play a part in who gets to be a fixer AT ALL.  Maybe after you get your contacts and whatnot it affects the prices you pay for the goods you're gonna sell, but reputation and your ability to conduct business should be the factos you care about.  These both stem from RP with other characters in the game.  That's how people learn that doing business with YOU is profitable.  You gotta RP, y'hear?

Though these "contacts" should be more easily accessible.  But that's a GM-issue.  And since I don't really know what all they're up to behind the scenes, I'm not gonna pester them right now about it.  Because Lord knows they're sick of it by now.  ;P

I've got to agree with Aikao here. �There is plenty of stuff available to purchase.

I'll say this.

In cyberpunk in general and in Withmore specifically -everything- has a price.

Now, whether that price is in chyen, or in blood, or in a reputation or your very soul is another matter entirely.

But remember …

Wanting more - You always want more than you have. Whatever you have, is never enough. There is always something missing. Maybe it's the latest threads, or implants, or weapons. Maybe it's just to be left alone. Whatever it is, it's something you want. Now you just have to figure out how to get it.

Wanting somthing is the basis for -all- RP. �You -want- a gun, or drugs, or to get someone off your back, to someone to die, or a corpie to get fired, or a mixer to get arrested or ...

So the question becomes, what are you going to do about it? �;)

<quote>
Gitzo says, "short and sweet. much gear -is- easy to get. the system is in place. but to get rid of it is much harder. maybe a system of getting things out of the game through fixers etc. sort of recycling through NPC's.. if that makes sense."
Miranda . o O ( recycle chute on gold? )
Aikon . o O ( who's going to throw stuff that's that expensive away )
</quote>

Hrm. I guess I DO need to work on expressing myself clearly. I shouldn't have used the word recycling because I did not mean to imply that people should be throwing expensive items down the recycling chute. :P

Think reselling, item turnover.
There needs to more haggling and wheeling and dealing about items. But we all know there are more guns and certain items floating around the streets then there are people who need or want them.

I was thinking a system that would allow sales of surplus from a PC back to an NPC. The markets are good for getting rid of petty items. But in world like RED where someone would ALWAYS be looking for something. It's odd that a PC fixer would have to go to the markets to get rid of certain items.

something like…

PCbob "I have 5 guns. I'm using them as doorstops because no one wants them. I am sad."
*calls up NPCbob*
PCbob "Know anyone interested in some guns?"
NPCbob "But of course. Guns are good. *haggle haggle* Use CourrierBob."
*time passes*
PCbob to NewbieBob "Here is a package. It is not 5 guns even though it looks like it. Your eyes deceive you. Now go to the secret meeting place and get me my money."
NewbieBob "Yey!"
NewbieBob .oO(Yey money!)
*much stuff can happen here*

But this would only be available when all other avenues of trying to sell off EXTRA gear have been exhausted?

(edited for incessant typos)

(Edited by Gitzo at 1:29 pm on Nov. 15, 2003)

There is one problem with that:

Certain people don't like to sell to NPCs.  I know its purely OOC, but I think its good that they choose this instead of just trying to dump everything.  I dunno.  Guess it leads to hoarding though.  Meh.

Why dump for 10% or 25% at the market when you can seel to NPCBob for 70-85%!

Hell, PCBob got all his guns by stealing and killing PCJimmy and PCSue anyhow.

ON that, perhaps we should make a way for players to 'wrap' items for transfer. You can wrap them guns in oily papers, or fancy origami (If you have the artistic ability)…all that would be needed to be made is 'paper wrapping' items like newspapers, wrapping sheets, ect. 50sheets for 200c from good ol Uncle Sungh.

The paper idea sounds good to me.
*bump*  origami..  another artistry skill use?  ;)