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@where the hell are all the people?
Hmm, kinda lonely tonight

I was thinking of a possibility of a @where command that showed up where the players concentration is like:


-Drome 6
-WJF 3
-Carnal 4

Just so the lost on the m00 can find some RP around.

*goes back to hide in corners*

I like that idea quite a bit. It touches very lightly on the 'not realistic' frontier, but it's also heavily weighted in the 'not realistic, but more enjoyment for everyone' aspect. I wouldn't list all areas currently inhabited by players though, as some might be trying to disappear. Maybe just a list a couple hot spots like the Drome, Carnal, the food places, authority, etc...

Well, look at it this way.

You are at Carnal, or wherever would be on the list.

You look around, you see, say, two others buy yourself.

You use @where, and it says....4. So, you suddenly OOCly know someone's hiding there.

To me, it just looks like metagaming bait, what can I say?

I also see WJF (subsequently referred to as 'authority') mentioned.....why in the nine circles of hell should you know how many PC Judges (of which there are 3) are at the Hall? Geez, that's like me asking to see how many wanted criminals are online and if they're at their 'hideout' or 'treehouse' or whatever y'all have.

Most of the gathering places on Red can be reached from any point in less than 15 or so keystrokes, you can just peek in.

'Sides, despite what may be said, the best adventuring doesn't start with 'You all meet in a bar'...

No, but it does all start with 'you all (or, ya'll, as you prefer) meet', this the apparent need for -something- along these lines.

As I said, all the major meeting places are quickly accessible - so if it only lists those, the point is moot.

If it lists -everything-, it's pure metagaming. If someone -wants- to be somewhere where they may meet someone, they -know- to hang around the Drome or Carnal, or even SHI. But if someone doesn't want to meet people or be found, then you gotta put some effort into finding them. So, as far as I can see, a system is already in place. Basically what you're saying is, "I want to RP with people but no one is where I can easily find them"? Christ, go out and generate some RP for yourself, SD is remarkably reactive.

See, let's say six people are online, your @where says
Westinghaus 2
New Rose Hotel 4
Habitat-X  1

How exactly is this the solution to finding RP? What are you going to do? Knock on all the apartments and cubes? Get stuck in the WHJ checkpoint? Whee.

Why aren't the people who always public SIC "Where is everyone?" in the Drome? If all the people online at once wanted to rp with random strangers, they'd be in a bar. Period. If they're not in a bar, either they're doing something else, or they're lazy.

Furthermore, if you knew where players were through the OOC tool that would be the @where, wouldn't acting on that be in violation of the rules?

Just because one's character doesn't have enough friends/enemies isn't a reason to water down SD.

i don't think you should be able to know how many people are in a particular room, even if it's only the bars and such. unless ... maybe saying how many people are on a level TOTAL (NOT including sewers/maglevs/tubes/etc)?...

though still that seems too close to crossing some IC/OOC line.

but, i think... and i'll keep saying it...
playerbase = bigger = solving that 'not having random people on to RP with' deelemna. until then, you have to work a bit harder to find someone to RP with.

i guess, if you're really bored, stand in the street. go to an intersection you know people use a lot and sit around, ride a maglev round and round, go harase a judge/ganger/rat, get your char drunk/high and roam the streets... heh... oh i don't know.

i'm prolly not the one who should be giving tips on how to find RP right now.

oh... and... getting stuck in the WJF check point is fun! DAMNIT!...

Yeah, metagaming. Thanks for bringing that to our attention, Murph.

Well, I think the world must be comming to an end .. I agree with just about everything Murphy said.

As far as finding RP here are a few ideas.

1st, yes, I know piblic SIC is not to be used for ooc. �However, if the rules were amended to allow it for the floowing phrase -only-

)ooc RP Alert -> Roleplay in progress at <Insert location here>

that might work. �The catch is, if you twink out and announce RP at a location just to jump someone, you need to be @celled or otherwise suitably smacked in the digital head.

2nd, a character I know once used to go on public SIC and announce 1000 chyen, free drinks or whatever for the first person to come to <location> and do <insert whatever>.

3rd Be out, be active, avoid ataying in your cube, make contacts so that no matter -who- is on, you know they are on, have a way to contact them, and can RP if possible.

In short, GET OUT OF YOUR CUBE AND -DO- SOMETHING!!!, hell go talk to the NP .. err, non-player controlled characters in a different location. �Find ways to amuse yourself. �I've talked to some of them and all of a sudden had them come alive and had some -very- good RP with them. �You -never- know.

Now, I will say that I've seen -way- more people out and about and had -way- more RP in say the last 6 weeks, than I have in the last 6 months.

There has been laughter, and trouble, and sneakiness and treachery and lying and deciept ..

It's been great.

If worse comes to absolutely worse, walk Fuller st between Knife and Lamb .. go in the hotels, and clinics, and bars and whatever .. you'll find someone if they're on.

And above all else, promote the game to like-minded thinkers!

Head over to and submit a review for SD. Get other people to come here, make the playerbase grow and you'll have more people to RP with. I advertise all over the place, but a review from you guys has way more sway than some ad I can put up.

And on @where, I agree with the concern about metagaming.

erm... *shuffles feet* what's meta gameing?

I'll let Murphy tell you all about it, he knows what it is.

I wrote up a review for that site...just taking forever to show up.

Metagaming has a whole slew of meanings, depending on who you talk to, but the meaning I'm familiar with, is basically 'OOC playing'.

Using IRC, AIM, ICQ and other OOC methods to 'direct' your playing - where you go, what you do, and so on. Basically, cheating - gaming with the use of extraneous, OOC tools.

This, of course, is known by many terms, but I like the word 'metagaming' best.

Murphy is right, he remembered that the world isn't made of rule following roleplayers. Max, don't even get me started. And Johnny, been there done that, they dont like me, but I actually advertise SD to all my friends.

The idea was a bit misunderstood and a bit wrongly displayed at my side too.

I know that for all you PST based players your night is full of people eagering for some action and RP. But unfortunatelly there are timezones were on and to some of us that means loads of empty rooms around and no matter where you go or what you do everyone is sleeping (even Johnny).

It might not be a numerical value simply a one worded rank (mild, warm, firefight) will do and only certain places would be shown. That way those 3 players online at 4 am PST could get some action.

You might say "Hey I have timezones issues too and I still play." So do I, and most of the players seem to know me from ... [Moderation Mode: 2mp deleted by Sysop for IC content] and obviously being killed more than once for doing all kinds of stuff. But other players might find it more difficult to get into the action than you think, and sometimes as mutch as you walk, there are only pumpkins around for you to play with.

[edit]Hope noone saw it hehe... Sorry[/edit]

(Edited by Xeethot at 5:28 am on Mar. 31, 2003)

(Edited by Xeethot at 5:43 am on Mar. 31, 2003)

(Edited by Kevlar at 2:10 pm on Mar. 31, 2003)


Gee, Xee, thanks for telling everyone OOC, who I am IC. �I appreciate that, really.

And I didn't direct those suggestions specifically at you.  They were general statements for the many n00bs about.

(Edited by Max at 8:14 am on Mar. 31, 2003)

Sorry about that, corrected now. And it isn't really that difficult to guess actually.

Alright, but back to the @where command, what if you made it optional to be on the list of where people were (like @invis), and have it only check the places that are public, such as bars and restaurants and such. Just get you an idea of where the concentration of players are.

It's an okay idea, but I think that a better way would be to have all the bartenders and whoever on the SIC, and also make it so that you can ask Rychek for his SIC alias and he'll give it, then, when you SIC him, he'll tell you the number of people that are hanging in the drome (that he can see, anyway).

It wouldn't show apartments or streets; only the public places like the Drome, Carnal, Tony's Pizza, Cordoba mall and the like. And next to it a word scale from cold to hot as being the quantity of players at the place.

It seems like a good idea in theory, but I see a few problems with it.

1)  Abuse.  If I know that the Drome is rockin (which usually if the case if there are alot of people in the SIC list) then I know whoever I'm looking to cap is more than likely there.  This is just -one- of many possible scenarios where the IC/OOC boundry can be easily crossed and lead to metagaming, twinkism .. whatever.  At least the SIC list is IC.

2) What's hot?  4 people?  10 people?  I've had some of the -best- RP I've had here one on one.  It's the quality of the RP, not the quantity.

I'm sure there are more but ...

Don't get me wrong, I -do- like the idea of knowing where the action is.

I'm just not sure if that is something that should be handled OOC or not.

I'm thinking that's up to your character to know where the 'spots' are.

Like Jack the Ripper i'm answering in parts :

1.1) You're right, the Drome gets packed when there's a lot of people, but normally it is only the Drome, because people tend to gather there as it was elected as the meeting point. That leaves Carnal and others like it empty because everyone only goes to the Drome and it isn't for the service nor the quality of the drinks (price maybe). We all have seen Greeners down at the Drome, it just plain doesn't fit.

1.2) Spreading the players thru the bars could start new plots (fights for customers?). And would boost a bit the player driven places towards spending some bucks into making something ICly to keep that stats raised.

1.3) It just occured me the idea of a IC dayly screamsheet that would be free and could be at every bar right next to the snacks (or NLM based) that would have last night's best places as well as the today's program of fun and entertainment. Hell, with the data I would be more than glad to make the news...

2 ) the levels of 'heat' could be based on percentage... like

if (number_of_players > 0) {
    float x = (number_of_players/total_players_online) * 100;
    if ( x < 5 ) { return "cold"; }
    if ( x < 10 ) { return "mild"; }
    if ( x > 10 ) { return "hot"; }

You've got IC solutions to solving these problems. Until I see these solutions -NOT- working, I can't get behind an OOC solution to one.

I see this problem solved ICly all the time. And choosing not to solve the problem ICly isn't proof that they do not work.

~ J

Is it really that hard to hit all the hot-spots in a matter of minutes?  Hell, Ike does it all the time, just roaming around from bar to bar, occasionally stopping to grab a drink or chat with someone.  And Xee, that "fighting for customers" thing wouldn't really work that well if you take into consideration the ambient population.  There's PLENTY of people going in an out of all the bars one SD.  Just read the room descriptions.  (Personally, I think the ambient population should somehow be taken into consideration for the people that work at the bar/drinks served/etc..  though I have no idea how that could happen..  maybe another percentage thing based on how many player characters bought drinks?..  ah, I'm rambling off topic, pardon me)..

Also..  Xee, you have to actually put some effort in to RP with people.  I've had Ike chillin' in the Drome plenty of times and Xee walks in, states he needs a beer, buys one, and leaves.  You have to try to interact with the other characters if you want to get some RP started.  That's what it's all about.

Hell, the drinks and stuff are just RP tools anyway.  They don't benefit or harm your character in any way (besides costing chyen).  They don't do a damn thing except attract RP.  Use them to your advanatage.  Don't hop in, buy a drink, and immediately leave.  Stay there a while.  talk with someone between sips.  SAVOR THE ALCOHOL AS IT SHOULD BE SAVORED!!  MUAH!!!  Er..  sorry..  I need a drink..

    Well I wasn't referring to me not finding RP, most of the time I'm just passing by on my dialup (gotta pay the cube, right?). But the telecom wizards are puffing up my line for ADSL, so soon I'll be out and about again.