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Cortex Bombs
Murphy got me thinking ...

Quote: from Murphy on 4:06 pm on Feb. 16, 2003[br]And further than that, how about the possibility of wiring a cortex bomb to the SIC? Take out the SIC........Bewm. Bye bye, 'patient', and bye bye to whoever was leaning over the guy's neck, probably, too.

Heh, I like the idea of cortex bombs, but not for every citizen.

I think anyone convicted of a first offense of either having their SIC changed, or changing someone's SIC could get one, as I'm sure this would be just a wee bit illegal.

I think people working for organized crime families could be forced to have one implanted as a condition of 'employment' shall we say? �Same thing with higher level corpies for that matter ..

I'm 100% on that higher level corpies thing. The thinkers and scientists...

Corpies would 'protect' their information. And they'de value it alot higher than they'de value the life of the scientist.

I think it's pretty clear that cortex bombs will need both 'dead-man's triggers' AND 'remote controls'.

-Kevlar

Not to mention they'd be handy for, erm, 'sentencing' rogue Judges.


Pratt says "So he sold out our encrypts, hm? Don't bother looking for him."

Pratt presses a button on his terminal.


An explosion is heard, somewhere in the sewers of Red.

in such cases as sentancing of rogue judges, corp triators, misbehaving mafia drones.... etc...

it's interesting to speculate, would this be a permanent thing? it's an nice way of guaranteeing obediance or at least forcing people to be a bit more discreate and carefull about their betrayal.

but once the neck goes cablooey, would they reclone? would their be some program that prevents the SIC number that just exploded from recloning... insta perm?

different types of bombs, more -really- pricey (like most people wouldn't even see that sort of money) and rare ones could cause a perm...

*pictures the interesting fireworks*

Well, I think insta-perm would be a bit extreme.

Besides, if cortex bombs were insta-perm, wouldn't dying in the sewers or  in a shielded room have the same result?

Hmm, I suppose this get's into exactly -what- the process for cloning is?

How does Genetek -know- you're dead in order to activate your clone?

I think that the -legitimate- ie govt sanctioned uses of cortex bombs would carry an insta-perm designation, that would be the idea ..

Judge Pratt to [whomever] "Ok asshole, this is your -last- chance.
Pratt holds up a small transmitter with a single button.
"You screw up even this much," as he holds his thumb and forefinger 2mm apart "and you better -hope- you're in a sewer when I press this button, because your head's gonna get vaporized and your SIC ID will be tagged as 'do not reclone'. �If you have any next of kin, they can get a refund if you have a clone."
(there is a better way to do this but I don't want to chance giving away any IC info)

[whomever] glups audibly

Hospitals and clinics would do the -legit- bombs and your friendly neighborhood ripperdocs would do the unsanctioned ones, assuming they or someone could actually get ahold of the bomb. �

Hmmm, is this an opening for people with the explosives skill?

Chances of malfunction (not going off when triggered), and early detonation increase the worse the doc and bomb maker are ...


Max walks nervously down the street, the blinding snow all but obscuring his form.

Moss follows him, a transmitter in his hand.

As they meet Moss says to Max his thumb an inch above the trigger "You been behaving?"

Max eyes the transmitter and looks up to Moss, his face a pale mask. "Yeah, I've been go ..."

A small explosion is heard but quickly dies in the howling wind of the storm as Moss wipes bone fragments, chunks of flesh and bits of grey matter from his face. �"I knew I couldn't trust that doc ..."

Again, special skills needed. �It wouldn't be enough to surgically implant the bomb, you'd have to wire it to the SIC ...

Quote: from Max on 8:57 am on Feb. 17, 2003[br]

I think that the -legitimate- ie govt sanctioned uses of cortex bombs would carry an insta-perm designation, that would be the idea ..


I'm fairly certain I read somewhere (maybe in the help files?) about there being international treaties against that sort of thing - deleting clone data, et cetera.

But only an admin can really answer that.

As for how cloning works, it seems total mystery to me. I'm sure if we all started to look in to what goes through a person's body when he or she dies, it might be possible to formulate a logical theory. But I somehow doubt it's SIC related, because cloning treaties are supposed to be international AFAIK, and it's not mentioned anywhere about SICs being a worldwide thing. Maybe there's some weird nanite treatement that would use the last electrical charges from your brain to send of some sort of uber-powerful signal. Or something, I dunno.

Only an admin can really answer that.

I seem to be repeating myself.

I seem to be repeating myself.

I seem t....erh. Yeah.

Addendum:

Besides, if Cortex bombs cause perma, this is what people with them would do:

Rent a cube at the 'Rose and drop off all their things.
Update their clone.
Jump off Westinghaus.
Go back to Westinghaus and hide the body so no one ever knows they recloned - cyberware isn't genetic, it's metal and plastics grafted to various parts of you. Logically, it won't clone with you.

Removal: 5k, 15k if you get DCD. Take the cortex bomb off your corpse and sell it, and hell, you're probably making a profit, too.

If you're really enterprising, you'll even have someone there waiting for you with your things, so no PCs, NPCs, or ambient NPCs will see you with a Genetek jumpsuit on.

Hmm,

It could be as simple as SIC id x54h73ef9 (which should be consistant from clone to clone, right?) �get's a cortex bomb if they clone.

They can kill themselves all they want, and assuming the bomb is triggered by the SIC id ...

If someone triggered a bomb in your head (again tied to your SIC id), and you killed yourself previously, got the bomb, sold it (also with your SIC ID) and it's now in .. say Bias' head .. does she go splat if/when it get's triggered?

No, that doesn't work. �Who's gonna buy a cortex bomb if they know it won't go off when they want it too, and could well go off prematurely.

But if the bomb is triggered on a frequency associated with the SIC id, then the frequency the bomb get's triggered on could be changed, right?

Maybe even triggered by a Freq man?

Person with SIC id x54h73ef9 , dies, clones, get's a new bomb implanted, but tied to the same, unique frequency. �Finds their corpse, sells the bomb after getting some techie type to change the frequency ...

It could work.

But, if there are treaties banning this, then for -legit- bombs this is moot as there are none. �We're left with the corps and mafioso and what they can get done.

If every time you clone, your clone gets a cortex bomb slapped on, assuming these are fairly expensive, either your cloning costs skyrocket or the corp pays whatever. Very expensive proposition - not only the cost for the implant itself (every time you clone!), but also the costs that Genetek would probably associate with the service.

If it doesn't perma, then there's really no point in comiiting suicide to get it out. You'll die anyway, right?

But even if it doesn't perma, the cortex bomb can still be extremely handy. Especially if the charge is powerful enough to destroy most/all of your possessions.

Sure, bigwig corp scientist/programmer/executive gets 'extracted' with his data/prototype, what have you, but if he still has it on him when the bosses get wind....theft stopped. The guy may have gotten away, but the corp still has the data exclusively - or no one does, depending. It's still better than having it in the hands of the 'enemy'.

I'm not so sure about the expense part.  I mean, how much is it for an ounce or two of C4 or the 2088 equivalent, a few wires and a reciever?

I suppose it's moot though.

As far as the pwer of the charge, yeah, I never thought about that angle.

Heh, but that brings up another interesing idea.

Cortex (suicide) bombers.

I wonder exactly how much you could pack in there, and just how much could you blow up?

Actually to kill a person with a inner skull bomb, would need a small amount of explosive and quite a bit of shrappel to actually slice the chummer's brain out and cut its connection to the spine.

So it would be like a small frag grenade. The people in the room he is would hear a deaf explosion and his eyes, nose and ears would start to bleed a bit after it.

Well, that'd be the -minimum-.

But that's no fun ...

I'd like to see a [font=impact]BIG[/font] boom ... ;)

Go big ot go home .. right?

For a big boom you would need too mutch explosive and it wouldnt fit inside one's skull without the removal of part of the subject's brain. And then to create a suicide cortex bomber you would have to remove even more brain to create a big enough explosion.

And counting that the explosion would be big enough to liquify one's head, he would turn himself into a grenade as the explosion would send skull fragments at high velocity in every direction, causing even more damage.

As we're slowing the healing period to a reasonable one, we might go and keep moving into the same direction to the new features.

I don't know if I agree with that.

Mind you, I don't have a background in explosives, but, say 2 ounces of an explosive currently available today should be able to do a hell of alot.

This quote is taken from terrorism.com

"It is estimated that about Six ounces of Semtex cruelly brought down the Pan Am 103 Boeing 747 over Lockerbie"

If 6 ounces could do that, then 2 ounces, an amount that should be able to be concealed, especially if fashioned into a thin sheet, under the skull, should do the trick nicely.

And that's what's available now. �I can only imagine what is available in 2088.

I don't however, think that Jman and Kevlar and all the others, would give us, except as possibly a one time deal, a weapon of this magnitude that could so easily destroy game balance and a part or parts of the world they have so painstakenly (sp?) created.

I think the -reality- of the bomb, should it ever actually be used, might be just a bit bigger that Xee's description. �At least enough for the head to actually explode and a few innocent bystanders to get some shrapnel damage.

But then, that's just me.

(Edited by Max at 1:33 pm on Feb. 18, 2003)

See, you're all talking C4 and Semtex. That's very old shit. Especially Semtex. I'm fairly certain by 2088 they'll have some pretty high-power, highy concentrated explosives. We're not talking about cortex bombs today, we're talking about cortex bombs when they'll be more feasable.

As for expense, I'm fairly sure it -will- be expensive. Why? Not necessarily the parts - more likely because if supply and demand. I doubt there'd be ten thousand manufacturers competing with each other for the cortex bomb market. And, seeing as Genetek has a monopoly on cloning and controls the ONLY place this can get implanted right after cloning, regardless, they'd probably insist on supplying their own (which they could easily get away with - monopoly again) and gouge royally for the service. Besides that, yes, you need the explosive charge itself, detonator, a receiver, and some sort of casing for the unit to make implantation easier, right? But, I figure you DON'T want your star researcher to explode when someone dials the wrong number on their cell phone. It wouldn't be very good for morale. So, you'd need to shield this thing, and make sure it's VERY difficult to make it go off accidentally. And that's where the expense lies.

Yeah, I was just using the stuff available today as an example. �I didn't even want to try to extrapolate into the future.

Quote: from Max on 1:27 pm on Feb. 18, 2003[br]
And that's what's available now. �I can only imagine what is available in 2088.

I never considered the monopoly factor, but then again, that would just be for -legit- ones as some Doc would implant the non legit ones.

If cortex bombs are outlawed, then even the corps would have to go to -underworld- sources, or force their own Docs to do the work.

As for the shielding, currently there are special ceramics made to protect electronic components from an Electro Magnetic Pulse in the even of an atomic blast. �Assuming the ceramic survive the shock, the internal components are protected.

I'm sure by 2088 there'd be a way to tune the ceramics (similar to the ways certain crystals can only receive certain frequencies) to allow only a very specific frequency through. �I think this would be the shielding seen in the top of the line stuff.

Hell, maybe the ceramic itself is the reciever, or a crystal inside the ceramic .. It recieves the signal, causes the crystal to vibrate, which generates a tiny current and .. boom.

As for your typical Mafioso, I don't think much shielding would be used, although I do agree it would (most likely) be encapsulated in something to make implantation a bit easier. �Possibly even some 2088 form of plastic that the body doesn't reject like is currently used in knee replacements.

I'm sure whatever Doc did that one would be sufficiently threatened by the rest of the 'family' such that if the bomb went off incorrectly (early, or not at all), he could be very certain of a future as a cement shoe and live fish bait salesman.

The more 'features' you want in your bomb, the more it costs.

5-10k for no frills no shielding ... no garuntees.
15-20k for some sheilding (ok, freqmans, electronic appliances static cling and neon signs won't detonate it.)
50k and up, for a top of the line, -It ain't goin off unless we push this trigger- cortex bomb.

All prices plus labor, of course, and don't include the guy who can actually -get- the explosives holding you over a barrel.

Heh, this has been fun. �I need to take a few days off work more often!!!

Obviously, the monopoly thing would only apply to legit bombs. But illegit bombs wouldn't get implanted at Genetek - I doubt mafiosi/yakuza/whoever would have the credentials necessary to contract that sort of thing.

So gangs would have to implant you every time you clone - and they'd have to -know- you cloned. Considering what a pain in the ass Genetek seems to be as far as releasing info is, I doubt they could - so, you could basically have your bomb removed and never tell anyone. Selling it wouldn't be the brightest idea ('less your bosses have you selling a batch of cortex bombs), because the higher up wiseguys would probably hear of it if they have at least five brain cells between them. And that's when youre screwed. So obviously, suicide removal, however unpleasant and slightly psycho, would be the way to go - because no one but you needs to know that you're running bomb-free.

Hmm

True true.

I wonder if it would be possible to 'scan' for the presence of one.

I travel alot for work and am -always- getting the wand test to see if I've been in contact with explosives. �We short, fat, bald, 30-something males must just look the type.

I'm not saying you could detect a cortex bomb that way but you figure there'd be a way ...

As for getting away with getting it removed by suiciding, assuming there -is- a way to scan for it ...

You walk into Mafia Don Bob the Goat Ninja's secret hide out and you get patted down and scanned.

People in their org. who should have one (and do) are let in.

People in their org. who don't have one (but should) are -diciplined-

People not in their org, you would expect to have one (some top scientist selling out) are let in assuming all the preliminaries .... (Not that if I'm a high ranking -anything- I'd invite someone I -know- or suspect has one into my place but, hey, that's why they have Darwin Awards, right?)

People not in their org who there is no reson to be expected to have one, are shown the door.

I'd figure, if they were illegal, but known to exist, there'd be a scanner at the entrances of WHJ, other govt. offices and corps in the middle of a war. �Don't want some suicide bomber getting in, right?

Well, if you look around, you'll see some objects here and there (particularly in the WHJ) called 'security devices'. Ambiguous name, but we can all guess it's some sort of...security scanner?

But still, even if people are scanned for them - if you know what the device scans for, exaclty, you can spoof it, removing key components of the bomb which AREN'T scanned for (after having it taken out - by suicide or otherwise. No accidents in the back of *my* head, thank you). So, if it scans for the explosive proper, you just remove the transmitter, or detonation mechanism. Safeguards? No problem, you take out the bomb, and make a phony, implant it. The scanners'll pick it up, but, it ain't the real deal.

I was also thinking - why should there be a detonator to take up more space? A simpler way would be a liquid explosive, in two parts, epoxy-style. Signal goes out, the chemicals mix, and BOOM. If they're kept separate, it's perfectly stable. So don't smash the back of this guy's head in with a bat if you know what's good for you, cos you'll get more than blood on it. New meaning to the phrase 'Bat out of hell'.

(Sorry, but when you said 'short' and 'fat', I thought 'Meatloaf')

Heh, YEAH!

Binary chemical cortex bombs!

Perfect!!!

Singnal comes in, activates a small electric current that breaks down a gelatin barrier between the two and viola!

Heh, to continue your analogy .. the victim is no longer "Prayin' for the end of time ..."

Urh, okay, but just for the record....

A viola is a string instrument.

The term you're looking for is 'voila'. Unless you're trying to be the funny man. In which case, I laugh like this: :cheesy:

No, not tryin to be funny.

My fat little fingers are flying trying to keep up with my (cortex bomb free) brain.

So many great comments! Where to begin...

I guess let's start with Cloning: How does Genetek know when you die? I dunno. Make something up. They use a ULF burst transmitter which is much more expensive to maintain than the SIC transmitter uses and is completely unhealthy to humans when used in extreme closeness. Therefore the only time it can be activated is only for a nanosecond when the person is really truely dead. Sound ok? I mean don't take it as law and start talking about it IC or anything.

I immagine the 'remote control' would be tied to the SIC. Then you could just send the 'activation code' to them over the public/private SIC.

I love how this turns it into a 'hide in the sewers until I can get to a ripper doc' type of situtation. I think that's very in theme.

In theory, any type of cyberware in existance will be 'detectable' with the right type of equipment. We've not started on that framework at this time, choosing to concentrate initially on the 'install/uninstall' process which is very complex by itself. But a Doc working at SK would undoubetedly have access to some fun equipment.

Cyberware is metal and plastic permanantly installed in your body. It dosn't carry over with cloning. Bio-ware is nanites/chemicals/horomones injected into your body and is temporary in nature (lasting anywhere from a few minuts to months/years depending on the bio-ware). It dosn't carry over with clones, and nither does it's affects.

I am not going to comment about SIC IDs carrying over clones, other than to say the way it works will change before cyberware is released.

And take all of this with a grain of salt people. Nothing is ever set in stone, nor is my word the law.

But keep up the very intelligent and informed discussions. Great stuff.

-Kevlar