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Duel Wielding
Automated @idea from in-game

@idea from Ari

We can duel wield stuff... it switches back and forth... but what if we could wield a weapon and then use fists/kicks every other round like a duel wield would do?

Are you suggesting making this an option, or are you suggesting turning every combat round into two, except in the case of hand-to-hand?

An option, of course. Maybe even a special command to do it... a gun fight where all of a sudden someone lashes out with a punch or kick or something...

(Edited by Lucifer at 12:40 pm on Nov. 21, 2004)

Wouldn't that take the point away from a gunfight?

This leads into so many other topics allready covered and discussed in the Ideas forum. I will recap, again.

1) Weapon/HtoH mixtures with melee weapons and non-ranged weapons is a potential point of exploration at some point, as a specialization or advantage type option. It has been mentioned before, and is on the mythical 'LIST'.

2) HtoH vs Ranged weapons would require 'RANGE', a difficult concept in a medium that is, in terms of combat, so undefined in terms of space. It is highly complex conceptually, as well as code wise, at least for me when trying to figure out functional systems to emulate range.

Simplest solution in my mind is to add another aspect to combat, in addition to posture. Possition. Far, Long, Medium, Close, Tight. (15+m, 15m-9m, 9m-3m, 3m-1m, less than 1m) or for you people unable to do metric, roughly (50ft+, 50ft-30ft, 30ft-10ft, 10ft-3.25ft, less than 3ft.)

Now, the difficulty is not in setting up ranges, it is dealing with a player who wants to stay at 'Far' range when facing a player who wants to stay at 'Close' range. How many attacks does it take to cover the range spread? How can the 'Far' player, who will be trying to keep at far range, STAY at far range? Can they? What priority over attacking will this take? How will this affect things like rate of attack? What about a player who -CHARGES- in, sprinting full tilt 30ft and, say, slashing a gunman with a katana, then running past them, back out into far range... What about how range affects ability to -HIT- a target?

See, not so easy a problem. It is a much needed element to combat, that I agree, but as combat currently stands, we can survive without it. Combat functions at a very decent level. Better than decent really. So RANGE is not so important at the moment...but it is higher on the mythical 'List' than mixed melee/HtoH combat. I think. heh.

3) This also refers to range in a gunfight, which is typically less than 30 feet. Why? Because after 30tf hitting a person is fakkin hard. Likewise, at under 3 feet, a hand gun as an effective fighting tool is little better than fists and melee weapons. Why? Because your opponent without the gun is close enough to knock your arm to one side.

4) This also touches on to special attacks and custom moves and various advantages and the advantage system, which has been extensively discussed elsewhere.

I encourage everyone interested in these topics to search throught the boards and find the topics that deal with them, they have popped up many times.

:)

I always thought it would be kick-ass to have an ambidextrous skill, or advantage, or whatever.  Where you could fire two guns at the same time, or use two machetes or whatever.  Though I never thoughth of it in the context of armed/unarmed combat at the same time.   I've always pondered range too.  Yes your opponent may be able to "disarm" a pistol, or even strike you messing up your aim, but if you get in an opening you could also drop half of the clip very easily into their face/groin/chest/whatever, not making it a total detriment for pistol fighters.  Now say you had a less manuverable SMG.... that would change everything.  Anyway i could analize it forever and it would still get me nowhere.   The range thing is something I'd love to see implimented.   The beginning of it could be integrated with posture to a certain extent, for instance if your being defensive your obviously trying to back off at least a little, unless you going for some type of lock or something.  but that's about the only instance where it would be somewhat clear cut, because other postures would probibaly depend on your weapon.  

Damnit, there was something else I wanted to say too and I forgot....

Bump.

The dual-wield system sucks and needs a revamp. Discuss amongst yourselves.

I would love to comment, problem is I have no friggin idea how the dual wield system works. Anyone feel like enlightening me. I would experiment ICly, but it wouldn't really be all that IC for me to do so.

Long story short, you have two weapons in hand and in combat will automatically switch between one weapon and the other with each combat round. I believe the act of switching weapons can cost a combat round, but I'm not certain. You'll have to ask a coder-type.

We spoke about this briefly over OOC Chat not too long ago. Iga pretty much summed up what needs to be taken into account for moving forward on the subject. While dual-wielding firearms may be an easy thing to take into account.. we also need to look at a firearm, plus a melee weapon or a firearm plus brass knuckles, etc. etc.

This would involve ranged combat. Now, I'm sure we could probably figure this out, but how many players actually use dual-wield? Is this due to the fact that it's not coded like it should be or because nobody really cares? This isn't a rhetorical question.

Also, using two different weapons is going to give you some serious penalties. You would need to be extremely proficient at both weapons for it to actually be in your favour to make a combo dual-wield hit. In the long run you probably be better off just using one weapon. Maybe there is a way to get around this line of thought though... again.. feel free to discuss.

I, honestly, never dual wield a damn thing. Not counting which Nailz which is essentially a two handed weapon IMHO.

I'd consider dual-wielding a pistol/knife combo is knives weren't completely worthless as weapons...but it'd be more show then anything else.

The range issue behind combat is a reoccurring theme which could possibly be tackled by dual-wielding, if range was a prevailing factor that existed in the combat code.

I think dual-wielding needs to come with some serious drawbacks/advantages. Something which would also address what this is really gonna come down to also, oldies vs. newbies.

Why?

Because the only people with the skill to proper dual-wield who would use it is probably gonna be your older characters. So it should simultaneously give them a weakness to newer char (with shittier stats) while perhaps giving them the advantage of multiple targets...or more attacks, etc.

I could go one for a while but I doubt anyone's that intrigued.

In response to Firestorm's last question, I at least have always loved the idea of dual-wielding, but have been deathly afraid to use it because most every other time I've seen another character use it, even relatively powerful ones, they fall on their face.  I was told it works properly now, but have no idea what that means or how it really works, but find it absolutely interesting.

Quote: from FireStorm on 3:02 am on Feb. 14, 2010[br]You would need to be extremely proficient at both weapons for it to actually be in your favour to make a combo dual-wield hit. In the long run you probably be better off just using one weapon.

Wow, I wish I'd known this.  I thought I'd gain some style points for dual wielding.  Sucks :(