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Hunger
When should I eat?

I think since hunger is one only part of the fatigue system, it would help me to know when to eat. Maybe I could get a warning that my character is feeling hungry?

Welcome to the game. Your character will never feel hungry, but they will feel pooped out and not be able to recover quickly from that under certain circumstances unless they are fed or eat afterwards.

I know it's been talked about before so I looked back about a year and pulled this from the depths.

I for one am greatly in support of having to eat food on a somewhat regular basis.

Hunger -

Let's say we had to eat not only to keep our fatigue regeneration high, but to stop a very slow decay of our current HP at a high level of starvation. In the past I've noticed that a lot of people have chosen isolation to rid themselves of socially challenging situations such as high PDS or drug withdrawal symptoms. Hunger would force people to come out, if only briefly to satisfy a very natural urge without making it seem like a huge micromanage-y kind of feature. Let's be honest, healthy people don't need to eat 3-4 times a day like most games with hunger features seem to suggest, once or twice a day to avoid the effects of going hungry shouldn't be a big deal. This could also open up new doors in the badlands such as scavenging for foods.

This would need to be purely based on time logged onto the game to work in any way.

However I don't feel that it would add anything to the game to add this kind of feature and would unnecessarily penalise 'poor/new' players.

Considering how cheap food was on Red last time I played I can't possibly imagine how this would function as a penalty in any way for any age player.

Not to mention if you don't play for 6 months and you log on and you feel very hungry, it's like waking up from sleeping for 12+ hours and you're dying to eat, it wouldn't KILL you but it would require that you get out into the world and find some food which could result in coming across some chance RP, that you might have missed otherwise.

Care to elaborate on your point?

I'm really not seeing how this would add to the game (in spite of the points mentioned above). It would add a level of tediousness to the game first and foremost, I believe.

Personally, I try to eat at least a couple of times a day 'on-screen'. It's worth noting that playing very actively highly encourages eating anyway due to fatigue. Still, the idea of being coddled with hard programmed bio-needs doesn't sound attractive to me. It would be a penalty to active players unless if it were handled as game-time only whilst it could encourage more 'mechanical' players (who might for instance, run jobs like 'dailies' and harvest UE before logging out) to... continue as they are and log early to avoid accumulating hunger.

If it were handled as out of game time, this would be... very aggravating for people who are busy in their real lives or have to take unchecked leaves because of their responsibilities. I've played games previously where these kind of log-in hooks have forced me to quit outright.

So it might lure people out who are dodging RP by hiding out during certain extreme circumstances without any explanation as to where they're getting food and water...

Guess what? These people are power gaming. And I don't feel that there needs to be a mechanic to prevent them from doing this -- they simply shouldn't be to begin with.

But most of all the bottom line is, ba da ba bah...

This is Cyberpunk RP. It's understood that our characters eat, shit and piss. But that can go on in the background - whilst we're 'on screen' that time should be devoted to what we do best - scheming, moving things forward and developing our characters. There are certainly avenues for RP coinciding the two but these don't have to be instigated by a Hunger value.

To elaborate on why I feel that this doesn't really add a whole lot;

If I'm not in the mood to do any of the number of *amazing* and *awesome* things that you can do in Sindome, guess what? I'm probably not going to be in the mood to routinely make rounds to keep my Hunger bar in check.

As the player this is doing nothing for me.

I can see depending on how it might be implemented that there's a chance for it to appear needlessly tedious.

I guess I come from a time in SD where power gaming has been pretty prevalent and any feature that forced players to actually act like their character is a living breathing person was a good thing. Last year there was a lot of work put into making food dynamic and awesome and have a higher availability across all Sectors in the MOO. I just thought that a little coded support to remind people that eventually, you're going to have to interrupt your agenda to grab a bite would be beneficial somehow.

I've always RPed my characters being hungry throughout the day and I've always made sure that I found food no matter where I was to satisfy this make believe requirement for my character and in those times that I went scrounging for food around the Dome I've found some really good RP with people that I might not have seen if I hadn't decided I wanted to RP hunger and that kind of spontaneous RP can be some of the best RP you ever experience.

But I do see your point. Thanks for your input.

'I've always RPed my characters being hungry throughout the day and I've always made sure that I found food no matter where I was to satisfy this make believe requirement for my character and in those times that I went scrounging for food around the Dome I've found some really good RP with people that I might not have seen if I hadn't decided I wanted to RP hunger and that kind of spontaneous RP can be some of the best RP you ever experience.'

Great.

Then you also know, like me, that you don't need a mechanical boot up your ass to go out and do this / find this kind of RP.

;)

Just to comment on your follow-up point.. I don't really understand.

If you don't feel like doing any of the things in Sindome you're probably not going to want to go grab some food and look for RP either? Why would someone be logged in otherwise if not to be looking for RP?

Forgive me if I missed the point there, it kind of caught me off guard.

Great.

Then you also know, like me, that you don't need a mechanical boot up your ass to go out and do this / find this kind of RP.

;)

I guess I just like mechanical boots up my ass. :-) I've always been in love with Sindome's coded side and how it invites and adds to RP situations so I guess I've always been in favor of bringing more and more code into play in the form of RP tools.

'If you don't feel like doing any of the things in Sindome you're probably not going to want to go grab some food and look for RP either? Why would someone be logged in otherwise if not to be looking for RP? '

Well that's pretty much it. If I'm not inspired to take part in all of this great RP that Sindome has to offer at a given time, the addition of hunger levels isn't going to make me feel any more encouraged, personally.

A reason to be logged in but not looking for RP right that moment is if you're trying to catch someone online to continue some previous RP. (different timezones etc). I tend to do this myself actually.

Gotcha.

Forced hunger is the worst feature ever. If you live for players carrying around a bow of pizza just to stuff there faces randomly - that's for you.

Also, this topic is radically off-track.

Yoru: It's always a good time to eat. When you do - you'll see a message in @stats. There are perks to having eaten...I have no idea what they are but they exist.

A few thing on hunger and why it would be a bad game mechanic:

If hunger was simulated realistically in game, most players (i.e. the very skinny ones are exempt) would be able to go without food for a week or two (depending on physical activity) without feeling any adverse effects[0]. The opposite would be true. You'd be a little hungry only for a few days before your body is going to switch into some kind of hunting-for-food-mode where fat will begin to get burned and you'll not only feel pretty good and motivated (instead of hungry and weak), but also be able to achieve significant tasks. You'll feel strong and capable. To portray hunger realistically the game would have to keep track of each player's fat reserves. Some humans (very overweight ones at that) have been able to go for a year without eating a thing [1]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11416824

[1] http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/24/3549931.htm

So my conclusion would be that hunger would only add complicated stuff to the game that players would have trouble understand.

I didn't eat for two days, is this where I am most capable mentally? Physically?

Holy fuck why am I getting so fat?

And so on. The downsides of a non-realistic hunger-system have already been discussed in the thread so I'll not talk about them.

Wow! You guys replied even more than I hoped.

I think what would help me the most is a little reminder from my stomach that I'm feeling hungry and maybe it's making me tired. Or maybe an extended fatigue detail when I look at myself. I'd just like to know that eating something will help me or if I'm tired from other things.

Yoru - you wrote: I'd just like to know that eating something will help me or if I'm tired from other things.

Well, in real life you know that when you eat, you have some more energy usually or can function better, right? Or you can do activities more, right?

Same idea In Character. Plus, look at @stats regularly as you do things - activities, plotting, eating. :) @stats gives you some current information on your character.

Yoru - Being hungry doesn't make you tired in Sindome. You don't get hungry in Sindome. But when you're tired or you expect to do something which will make you tired and you want to get un-tired faster than you would by doing nothing about it, food is one way to help. All of us learned ICly what "being tired" is like and how to recognize it and what made it happen and what else besides food might affect both restedness and recovery.

"look me" or "health" or just "ht" actually gives you some information related to this suject which you can't get from @stats.

I know this thread is a bit old but having played hunger-system games that worked out pretty well RP-wise and knowing a bit personally about going without food for 3-5 days I'd like to layout my input.

We all in real-life get a warning message from our body that tells us we need to eat. At first its a twinge that appears to us as a mental craving "I'd really like X, or Y". This is our stomach and other body parts telling our brain we need this mineral, this vitamin, etc so forth. Second stage, we begin to feel a sort of roil in the stomach, sometimes grumbling. This will move onto a sort of suckling feeling in the guts like its contracting.

After 2-3 days of no food the pain begins to hit hard, I would describe it like being stabbed with a dull blade every five or so minutes. Mental capacity slows. Fat begins to burn. Mental capacity still stays slow, a few people have reported nausea and vertigo (I experienced vertigo). Around day 4 if you don't have massive fat stores you begin to get weaker and weaker. Day 5 complex mental functions begin to shut down, math becomes harder, future planning becomes harder. The ache in your gut actually begins to subside. Day 6, if you're low on fat your body begins to actually break down muscle A) for protein and B) saving the fat for high-caloric burns generally for running or fighting for that next meal.

Now, as for fat levels and all that, I mean, it's whatever. I doubt there's a lot of fat asses in a city that not too long ago had massive riots over food. I'd say you know, a reminder here and there 'Your stomach grumbles', ;'You feel a dull pang of hunger in your guts' that starts maybe 12-24 Played in-game hours sounds reasonable. The higher your endurance the longer before you start getting these messages. Perhaps an hour or two tick between each message. I've always viewed hunger/thirst systems as a simulator aspect, which RPI's tend to enjoy and can add another flavour and depth to RP if you're willing to work with it In Character. Perhaps you're short on chyen, it's been a few days since you've eaten, your belly coils in hunger. You see that guy walking out of the pizzeria with a box and you can smell the freshly cooked meal. Perhaps you'll try and strike up a deal, perhaps you'll hold them at ransom for their food. This kind of shit happens in real life, it seems to me it would be more likely to happen in this setting and theme and having a little bit of code that can instil that sort of action to be done by a PC is thrilling.

Or you can just RP... I know a lot of players that actually wake up (connect) and go have a breakfast like every other human being... then after a few hours go and eat lunch/dinner...

By design the game won't enforce you to eat or die. Eat as you should, have lunch/dinner with other characters and whatsoever... You should RP you character being hungry just because they just woke up anyway...

I never mentioned anything about the game actually hurting you for it. I honestly don't see why you have that sort of remark to make on an Idea board as if I don't know how to RP. There are other aspects to it as well for characters that cannot afford to have breakfast everyday. Having this reminder that they can kind of guage is like 'Okay, I know I can make it X days without having to eat so I can save this chyen here for that breakfast on Tuesday, this chyen can be used now to get up to Gold sector for work Monday, this chyen is reserve money, and this chyen is for getting drunk on the Sunday deathball party.

Sorry, my reply wasn't directed solely to you but to the whole playerbase.

There are indicators on how fast you are recovering and that is linked to your food/drink ingestion. Maybe keep an eye on it for when you should engage on eating. But I'd say at least once a day would be a nice place to be...