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Virtual Reality

I know the grid has been around for a while, and a lot of work has gone into it, but I just have to get some things off my chest about it…

I haven't really done a lot of work on the grid, but I used it a bit with some past characters.  But there is something that just doesn't sit right with me when I have to leave the text world.  Maybe it is just because I am text obsessed.

I know that there is a reason why there is no VR - The Matrix 7.4 bug from 2072 - but that's gotta be fixed eventually, right?  I think an alternative reality within the MOO would be a lot of work, but wouldn't it be cool?  And in addition, talented player could build new sections of the VR...

Just wildly dreaming here...

I think the Matrix bug was intended as an excuse for the lack of the finished Matrix product. I mean it isn't like nobody wants a Matrix, it's just that it isn't done.
I think this has been discussed before, from what I remember the Matrix /is/ being worked on, but it's alot of work.  I think even when the matrix comes out, it's going to be seperate from the grid, and both will exist.  This is just what I think I've read in other posts though.
It hasn't been worked on, to my knowledge, in well over a year. Too many other things took precedence.
Lotus is correct.

Many of the primary systems that are needed to run an 'in game' Martix have been made, such as Mementos and Scripts, but there are still some fundimental systems that need to be created first, and it has not been looked at in quite some time. Probably close to 16 months.

That is why we expanded the Grid functionality. Initially the 'grid' was a really bad in-game interface that involved lists and commands and a whole lot of not working. The wiki system Johnny had implimented was an excellent expansion on that, and used browser technology which is accessable to the vast majority of computer users.

Unfortunately, n8n, there was a sever hardware failure on the Sindome Server in November 2004 which has left us without some of the more interesting 'node' functions of this system. Due to gainful employment duties, Johnny and Kevlar have not been able to repair the system, and it is far to complex a relationship between XML items and Lambda MOO items for me to even really explain properly.

But, hopefully with March here now, things for Johnny and Kevlar will start to stabalize and they will be able to look at the Grid System again.

As to why Sindome has a 'GRID' and not the 'Matrix', it is more complicated than simply saying 'we need a stop-gap measure until we can code something.' From what I understand, the founders of Sindome, way back in the dawn of mankind, had a philisophical and fundimental falling out with the founders of CS, and from these disagreements a lot of our systems and concepts arose.

I don't really know anything about CS, nor do I care to learn.  But I have experienced a VR type of MOO from a bunch of crazy folks who call themsleves squidmoo, and it was very interesting.  The only problem was the game had no roleplay to speak of, at least not to the herculian standards here at Sindome.

The VR world would do away with XML-LambdaMOO object issues experienced in the grid.  I understand that it's not a top priority, but I would be interested in starting a discussion of what the VR could be, how it would be experienced, etc.  I really like the concept of a layered worlds.

For instance, one could describe themselves as they wish (thus creating an avatar), and each entry into the VR world could begin within the deck (in the localhost VR), which could be @described as well.  A directory listing could lead to various other machines, objects (programs) could be obtained to defeat security, router hubs could be hacked, etc. etc.

I am sure all of these things have been thought of before.  But there must be a way to at least get something like this moving.  Unfortunately, I am not a great coder, though I have set up a Lambda core on my local machine, but maybe there could be a way to allow others to help with the workload.

Anyway, just getting excited over one of my personal obsessions…

There is no intention to ever remove the Grid system from the Sindome Game Concept. The errors you are experiancing with the web-based grid interface are, as I said, due to an unfortunate hardware failure. Prior to that they were working quite well, with only minor bugs as one would expect in any Beta situation. (ie: On Sindome, perpetual BETA!)

As to a discussion of the Matrix, I am willing to talk about what we already have discussed in the past, even if some of it is already in topics in Ideas.

If you have played SuperHappyFunLand, an in game entertainment element for corpies (we are still planning to expand it to RED as well some day) you will have glimpsed what our 'VR' or 'Matrix' system will be like. In a nut shell what we do is create a set of rooms, take a snap-shot of them, and then archive that snapshot to disk. We then call that shap-shot into being every time that 'game' or 'room' or 'area' is accessed via the SuperHappyFunLand system.

As it stands now, the SHFL games are 'holo-room' technology. (Similar to current VR Cube technology, only suped up a bit.) For personal systems I picture either trode/google interface or Nnic (neural network interface chip) interfaces, each having advantages and disadvantages. (trode being more affordable and safer for your braincase, and Nnic being faster, more powerful, but more expensive and dangerous.) These personal VR devices would link to a 'cyberdeck', a high grade computer that handles the processing of raw image data and the like, feeding it to the users interface device. The deck then connects to the Gridworks Infrastructure or to the Matrix Infrastructure as needed by the user.

The difference between Grid and Matrix is simple. Grid is non-emersive. Matrix is fully-emersive.

As to the avatar concept, that is already in place in the SuperHappyFunLand systems. (SHFL was designed as a testing ground for the back-end systems needed to do a lot of Matrix elements.) Basically the initial Avatar for a player would be a 'snap-shot' of their physical description. This is already possible, though there are particular issues that need to be worked out with things like getting damaged in the virtual world, and how does that transfer over to the physical body or not. But that is a side issue more than anything.

Basically one's avatar is potentially redescribeable in the Matrix to be anything one wishes, quality being dependant on skills, equipment, and the like.

So, n8n, there is not a lot to 'get rolling on'. A good 90% of the back end systems are in place. All that is required is for a coder to link it all together and get it working. The project is Kevlar's baby at the moment. He will get to it as soon as he able to, once his busy life sorts it self out a wee bit.

I repeate, we will NEVER 'do away with' any XML-LambdaMOO system. The GRID will ALWAYS be a part of SINDOME. Why you ask? Because not everyone can afford to get the gear, the connection, and the skills to run the matrix. It will be an exclusive area to corpies and high grade criminals. For the dirty mud people there is the Grid.

This all makes complete sense.  Thanks for the explaination, Iga.
And with the Matrix you could tie in things like Stimsim, and hacking stimsim.. mmm stimsim.
One of the most important things I want a cracker-type character to be able to do is design their own Stimsim realities and profit from such things.

Sorta like being able to write your own mini-plot that happens again and again.

Ofcourse, you'll probably see it first in a method like in the movie Strange Days, a headset that records your experience and the VR playback mechanism that just removes most control from the player.

Who's ready for it?

So it'd be like scripting? With inputs? Logic?

Tell us more! :beatnik:

No, you just wear a rig, it records your sensory input. This is then played back. :)
I find that to be the most amazing thing.  So many excellent things could come of that.  Endless possibilities.
Quote: from Johnny on 1:54 pm on Mar. 1, 2005[br]One of the most important things I want a cracker-type character to be able to do is design their own Stimsim realities and profit from such things.

Sorta like being able to write your own mini-plot that happens again and again.

Ofcourse, you'll probably see it first in a method like in the movie Strange Days, a headset that records your experience and the VR playback mechanism that just removes most control from the player.

Who's ready for it?

I am! I am!I am!I am!I am!I am!

Ever since I thought about about the matrix utilizing flash 5 (which I know won't happen) but I've been thinking that if you utilize the innate console program crap (that I don't know how to use) you can create 3d shapes and the like.

In the Matrix world of Neuromancer the matrix describes processes,files, networks all as having there own individual shapes. The more complicated the system, the more complicated the shape.

If you could create a flash 5 "browser" of sorts and then store individual algorithms for shapes and file contents would it be possible to create a matrix-like experience? Would you even be able to do that in the first place hypothetically?

Its less of an idea and more of a question. I just had to ask its been gnawing at me for a while now and my knowledge of flash 5 is limited to making a 2 minute cartoon about a floating box.

I think that in a text-based world a text-based matrix is as close as you can get to the "almost real" virtual world.
StimSims! The drug of the rich mediaphile. Seriously, who does drugs when you can just hire some drugged out wastoid too take a dose just short of lethal and strap a recording rig to him.  Or experience the breathing execises of a 140 year old Tai Chi Master. Infinite possibilities. Hell, for a good time just let the thing idle and it'll get you high. At least according to Burning Chrome. It'd also be pretty cool if you could setup random "dreams" when you wake up or before you fall asleep. Just to add some flavor.
Haha, I've just been reading that.. I choose two of the stories from chrome to do a research paper on.  It's fun reading Gibson's literary critics too, gives you some good insight into the stories.
I'm…uh...still ready.