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Get Lost in the Market
where'd we park the car?

Our trade markets have gotten some significant changes.

They are now complex and messy places. Merchants come and go daily, so the way to the stall with the good prices won't be the same from one day to next. Generally though, its a safe bet that the merchants by the market entrance have the worst prices compared to the merchants in the back of the market.

i like it
You can see people moving through the markets too!

market chase...
Before I decide to do this, I want player input on the concept.

You walk into the market and you begin browsing. You notice all the things you're finding are clothing, so you wander deeper into the market. Here, you start browsing up knives and sheaths. You find one you like, so you haggle until you settle on a price and take it home, maybe you got a cheap sheath thrown in for part of the deal. Cool.

You decide a week later that you don't really like knives since everyone is showing up with a gun (only NEED a license if you're caught, mirite?). So you go back to the market, looking for a gun this time. But the gun merchant you find, he doesn't want to buy your knife, he deals with a hundred guys a day trying to make that trade. So you keep looking through the market to find the guy with the knives, happy when you do find him, but rather pissed he'd only buy it off you for half of what you paid.

I recognize that this will make it more complicated to buy and sell items, but I think it helps further the trading character role at the same time. Thoughts?

Love it.
That sounds really cool.
I like the whole idea. It really makes trading characters more special. If this randomization could be positively affected for the char that has good Trading, all the merrier.

Since sometimes a trader might feel he's only special at getting somewhat lower prices by haggling, since anyone could browse the same items regardless of skill.

Good traders are the ones that can make the special stuff appear!

God I hope all that made sense.

I am completely bias of course.. but for my two chyens worth i like it.. with caveats.

Apologies in advance for going off on a bit of a tangent..

First off ive always thought that more love is needed for Trader characters, ive written plenty of posts and bored jinx to tears probably with my endless notes on the economy and what not.. so yay for some market love.

Ive always thought that the markets should be more dynamic and the more a person invests in Trade (and even mixmash) the more they should really benefit from working the markets. Not just in prices but being able to find items that those that havent invested in trade and therefore their market connections shouldnt.

Ive also been thinking that since the mix has more than one market, it would be cool if they because a resource as such that the gangs should fight over, waging not just turf war for the sake of it.. but economic war by making each others market less desireable to be visited by the choices dealers.. Gangs and other vested players would be able to target a market, running it down and pushing the good traders to other markets.. really let players and the gang warfare have an effect. Of course this might need certain checks and balances to prevent OP but i like the idea of economic warfare.

I love your idea Johnny. id just respectfully say that certain items should be impossible or very hard to find in a market.. guns/drugs and other player run economy items should remain outside the market and there shouldn't be a specific gun dealer or drugs dealer as such.. but i do like the concept of a clothing section of the market.. an themely electronics section.. a weapons market section.. etc.. etc...

To my mind this helps fullfil the end objective of having more and more of the economy of the game in the hands of the players and so should always be about facilitate more player to player economy by giving love to fixers/traders/couriers whilst also not impacting on other in game professions..

Anything that helps players create/craft stuff and facilitates player to player trade is always a bonus on things that cant be player crafted.

anyway just my two chyen worth.

Guns and Drugs etc end up in the market from players selling them to the market, we don't necessarily stock the market with these things automatically. Just some food for thought.
I think it helps further the trading character role

Can you explain how?

I don't see anything in the way this was described which looks like any old person couldn't do it, trader or otherwise.

I think all of this broadens the trading experience, no matter what your skills are, it's not about being a trader by... trade (role) but it's about making trading a more immersive experience that fits the theme and the game world.

Corpies have offices, barracks, etc. Mixers have bars, strip clubs, TERRA, etc.

Now the markets are a place a 'merchant' or a 'trader' or someone doing any kind of business can feel like that portion of the game is actually built out and there's more to it than standing in a single room market that you're forced to BELIEVE is massive, now it looks it, now it feels it, and now it's a great experience.

This is all about enabling a more immersive experience for trade related RP and makes the role of trader, the specialty of trading, more attractive to spend time on.

I don't think the addition of specific areas for things is a fantastic idea to be quite honest. I imagine the markets as sprawling street markets with various different vendors all squished in next to each other selling everything from drugs to your own grandmother. Not organized. Chaotic.
I like the idea of different areas of the markets having different goods. Not necessarily divided up by type, but still seperated so to find a specific item, you may have to spend some time looking around. Perhaps different areas could be more specialized, yes, so you find more weapons or electronics or whatever it a specific part, but I don't think it should be divided up exclusively. Would really add a lot of value to the trader types, as people have said.

For those asking how it adds value to them, this is how I see it. As is, you can walk into the market, browse for a specific item and you either find it or not. Now, it takes a bit more time, thus making it more worth it to go through someone who spends more time there already, learning where stuff is.

As for rarer and especially for illegal items, they should definitely be deeper in the markets. Few bakas are stupid enough to sit there hawking guns right out front where any random Jake walking by can see them.

I didnt post it in my earlier post as i didnt want to disclose game mechanics on the post as i didnt know how much or little to expose, but since its already been posted then...

If the Market contents are still going to be limited by why players buy and sell into the markets i do like this idea more and more.

I believe that its really going to allow the builders to add as a bit more flavor into the different 'rooms' within the new markets. Im sure many others share the same passion for really reading peoples descriptions and getting into all the great work that has been done setting the scene and theme of the game and withmore via the room descriptions, so expanding the market and having specific areas that are more heavily influenced by selling/buying certain categories of items is only a positive in my mind. Lots of the Cyberpunk books and films reference specific tech markets or weapons markets for instance and i think this change is entirely fitting within this. Having this expanded market with more rooms and a bazar feel, gives a lot more scope to these areas beyond the single room, nip in quick scan and away you go again.. Plus i really love the current maze feel to them. Currently even with all the new building thats been going on the rest of withmore is (after some time here) very square,blocky and linear and doesnt feel conductive to a chase RP / Scene.. whereas these new twisty turns markets feels great navigating around them..

Anyway just my two chyen.

Thank you all for your feedback on the idea! As feedback was generally in favor, I've moved things into place and written some new code so we've got diversity of value, effort and risk across a range of merchandise categories. While we've defined a lot of the categorizing, there are bound to be items that slip through the category cracks. For these, you can still find a stray merchant here or there who will deal in just about anything.

So when you hear to look elsewhere, you'll want to move around to find a merchant who might trade in what you're selling.

There is some overlap between what items are sold in what category, but its probably more on the 'organized side' due to a more limited number of possibilities now in each individual market room. Again, move around, you might notice what the merchants are selling is specialized. Long live zee trader!

I did a good tour around the market today. The new features are very good. Made me feel I was getting into a very chaotic place with small islands of order.

The prices fluctuate nicely and the specialized stocks work mostly well (got a tire iron at a firearms stall but nevermind).

So thumbs up! This has a Kuzco seal of approval.

may have been more general weapon stall, but I don't think those would have firearms. inferred?
In the New Rose and I am getting messages about the market, such as 'Over to below, a Tiny chinese youth offers some sort of boots for sale to a tall girl.'

Not sure if this is intended or not since ICly I am not sure if the window overlooks the street or the market.

well, the messaging is certainly off a bit. Wasn't expecting it to find people above the market so well! :-D
Ok, the messaging should no longer spam people outside the market for most things. Those inside the market might or might not see things going on in the market depending on the activity and their abilities. I think I've fixed most of the broken sentences in the messages you'll see, so please report when things read bad.