Engaging Eachother
Even when that looks like a loss or compromise

Sometimes it isn't even about letting them be the 'winner'. They win without you having a say in the matter. "Hey, that bartender who can't fight just finished his crate run." Jump him, kill him, take their flash.

To some, through no fault OOCly or ICly, it becomes a:

Go to IC Job, Get Paid, Get killed. Wake up in vats with amnesia. Repeat.

Also, as I said, you don't have to hand everyone their victories. I said this specifically. But when you finally find yourself in that hard place consider engaging instead of shutting down. That is what I am suggesting here.

The choice of death, on either side, seems like such the easier option when both sides are really just afraid of the consequences of being caught. Both are entirely put in a compromising position, albeit degrees of difference, as they try to achieve their goals of survival. But choosing simply to die, for either side, breeds more of the same.

A villain who only chooses to kill people will create victims who see that as the only agreeable option. A victim who only chooses to die or entirely avoid consequences creates villains who will simply 'attack X' and move on.

Next time you're either, just... give a little. See what happens. Set the stage, bait and hook, and see if the other person's willing to play ball. It entirely happens on both sides, stonewalling, until its impossible to compromise, and there is no dialogue to the story, with people are simply waiting to bash UE against UE.

We're all here for the story. And like Mobius said, 95% of the time, the conflict comes from other players, and conflict is plot. So give them a shot at writing it, whether you're the victim or the villain.

Walking down the street

A wild Shroud Appears.

A Wild Shroud uses murder.

A Wild shroud uses vague ass statement with no context on SIC, then hops Alias before they can be questioned.

Confusion.

Continue onwards with nothing to interact with at all. Left to basically discard the whole experience as a waste of in-game resources.

As much as I could let these experiences shape my character... My character can't remember them and being told about it after the fact is like "Oh, someone killed you. Don't know who. Or why."

Now, I don't fault people for this. It's hard to engage someone in RP when one they're not expecting it, and two, you're in the middle of the street and you want to perform crime on them. Because there's other criminals around, and that person may call for help. Someone else may stumble on the scene and wreck the ambush. So forth.

The other thing is, there's no incentive to giving your opponent a course for reprisal. And oftentimes, there just isn't one available for people to take. When the fight is so one-sided one side literally has no recourse against the other, what's the point of fighting it? And, you will see this in people in real life. People will often simply surrender to overwhelming force. And you'll see other coping mechanisms come into play.

The game is punishing for mistakes unless you're one of the few people that gain access to redundancies, or simply have the flash to spare on other people's RP. This leaves people that aren't in a position to risk what they have, reducing their risk, betting small, carrying little, accepting small losses rather than gambling to inevitably lose their big stuff. What's a 5k clone and 5k of clothing versus the 30k you have in the bank you're saving for when you have the skills to be able to actually use armor and weapons for anything other than a self-imposed bounty?

Perhaps out of the box thinking should be considered? Why not think of ways to include people in what you want, without directly engaging yourself? Now, chances are people are going to be opposed to this. Give them something, stir them on. Send BakaImmyJoe to mug someone, but throw them a hood to give them some pretense of secrecy. Then show up and steal their winnings, or if they fail, mug the second victim that is now weaker. This is a type of experience that could not only actually provide roleplay for the victim, bring them to open up, but also teach them how to engage in the game.

Speaking from experience from both ends of this equation, the reason shrouds walk up and press the murder button without RPing is usually because they get extremely jaded from days, weeks, or years of trying to RP crime, torture, shakedowns, criminal mastermind exposition, etc only to be met with no-selling, people AFKing or as Mobius said, just not engaging.

I will share, that just in the past week, my character was involved in plotting to capture someone, went out and killed them, took them to a medical facility, revived them, took them to a remote location for interrogation and... the other player just logged out after the death scroll. Multiple people spent over a hour each RPing this plot and scenario, getting the equipment together engaging the risk involved in doing the crime and transporting the person only to sit and wait for 30 minutes for the player to log back in and resume RPing.

They never did.

I can't speak for others on this, but I've tried, on many, many occasions to RP the 'heel' with people and maybe 20% of the playerbase will engage in it (and that's actually a very generous estimate. The other 80% is people logging off after seeing death scroll. (please don't do this- For game numerous reasons, please just wait 10 minutes until it's obvious your character is ACTUALLY dead.) Or it's no-selling. Or it's "I heard two words out of your character's mouth and was instantly able to ID them through their poncho."

Killing people is easy. That's just time in game and money. RPing losing is hard. You've probably just got betrayed, caught out when you weren't expecting it, were burgled, etc and are hot under the collar. Take some time to get into your character's headspace. We romanticize this 'Never give up! Never surrender!' hero worship in western culture, but it makes for truly awful interactive roleplaying experiences.

I've lived in shitholes somewhat comparable to the Mix, and most people are normal people trying to get by. Even though we're the outliers and the brilliant stars in the spotlight, it's important to keep tact and not be cartoonish when we need to put someone down.

The other thing is, there's no incentive to giving your opponent a course for reprisal. And oftentimes, there just isn't one available for people to take. When the fight is so one-sided one side literally has no recourse against the other, what's the point of fighting it? And, you will see this in people in real life. People will often simply surrender to overwhelming force. And you'll see other coping mechanisms come into play.

Compound that to a series of murders without any incentive, effectively rendering the player helpless. You can only wonder what the player will choose to do next when it happens again despite rolling with punches.

Speaking from experience from both ends of this equation, the reason shrouds walk up and press the murder button without RPing is usually because they get extremely jaded from days, weeks, or years of trying to RP crime, torture, shakedowns, criminal mastermind exposition, etc only to be met with no-selling, people AFKing or as Mobius said, just not engaging.

I feel that is a poor reason to only use the 'kill' command because you assume they are non engaging. Out of that 10 or 20 players that do no engage, what would happen to that one who actually does want to engage? You just help them establish that there is no reason to even try to engage. Why try to resist when death is just a few text away.

Player being dragged away. Player resist and yell for help. Player resist and tries to engage with the attacker.

No response. Death.

Player is being attacked. Player yells for help. Player tries to talk it out while unable to defend myself against a combat character. No response. Death.

When the third time happens, why should the player even try to engage? The player already know what is going to happen. Die. So if they do get grappled? That signals it is time to get up from the computer, make coffee, avoid the potential bleed and frustration.

There will come a time where a player would question why bother wearing anything other than clothing from the immigration depot. It isn't going to make a difference if they last 5 seconds longer in combat. Whats a Du-wear or Nexus for? They are just being farmed for free money while advancing their so called plot. Especially if it keeps happening over a short period.

I remember a few years ago, when someone was murdered for their mistake or to prove a point, the attacker had the courtesy to stick their equipment (or 50% of it), and drop a message as to why. Maybe they only wanted that rifle. Maybe you were a friend of their enemy. At least there is a course of action ICly. They didn't have to do it. But it definitely gives the victim a reason to pursue, not just on an IC level but an OOC level as well.

Lately, a lot of the victims are forced to repeat a routine because they do not remember and go into a veterans farming them until they lose everything they worked for because... Who knows?

And that makes it easier for victims to disengage.

"Just kill me and take whatever you want. Saves us both time."

Isn't that what you're after anyways?

100% agree!

The victims-and-losers in conflict tend to be reactive; they usually aren't the ones initiating it to begin with. They take their cues from the person who has gotten one over on them, and usually, that person knew they could. A player whose character loses a conflict has to make a decision of how much energy to devote - as a player - to the victor, and how deeply to engage with that story. No surprise, better-written villains who demand interesting stakes get better engagement.

If you're playing a character who can effectively start and win conflicts, it's on you to pick good stakes. Don't pull your punches, but if you want hours of engagement, start reading the loser more: have you written a story where they can have fun? Doing so maximizes the chances the other party is going to respond in ways that are compelling and fun for you.

The responsibility to compete cooperatively falls on the winner first, because they are leading the dance.

By its very nature, Withmore isn't fair. It's a world where there's always someone larger, someone more powerful, someone richer. Some of those people escalate well, create good stakes, and offer approachable ways to disengage. Others create an endless cycle of loss, never compromise, and never give an interesting out. I've seen people in this thread describe both experiences and I've seen both happen ingame. They are night and day.

When you win a conflict, strive to do it with such excellence that the loser wants to come back for more.

Things take forever to achieve, and seconds to lose. You might earn something back, but you might not too. People are going to be cautious in that atmosphere.