LEGEND
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Websites that use flash or shockwave plug ins. It is super cool to make things and spend hours and hours on them, only to have them unviewable by people because you've used some flash plug in. Wee.
Then, you get someone to post non-descriptive links to it and hope like hell that enough people can view the flash and/or shock wave files that they will follow what is happening. It is even better when it links to a non-english site. And you get illegal characters.
Whooo.
I love that.
Iga why do you not have flash?
Iga why do you not have flash?
Iga hasn't quite joined us in this whole 21st century thing yet. He insists that the 'old way is the best way' and doing things like 'upgrading your computer' is a 'waste of time and money' because you'll inevitablly 'have to do it again'.
He's like one of thoes guys you hear about in thoes beer commercials about "Real American Heros":
~\o Real American Heros! ~\o
Today, we reconize the technologically challenged by paying tribute to the Mac OS 9 users.
~\o Mr. Won't Upgrade His Computer Guy! ~\o
Because of you, millions of web developers are still employed making simpler versions of web pages that still work on archaic and outdated web browsers.
~\o Love thoes outdated broswers! ~\o
Your staunchy denial to 'Go With The Flow' and utter refusal to move on to bigger and better technology is a testiment to geeks everywhere, and for that reason, we salute you!
~\o From his cold dead hands! ~\o
So this cold one's for you, Mr. Won't Upgrade His Computer Guy. Keep fighting the good fight!
~\o Mr. Won't Upgrade His Computer Guy! ~\o
-Kevlar
*Pets his OS Archaic that doesn't have tracking capabilities put in by terrorist fearing America*
Some of the best hacking….uh I mean security tools and knowledge is really old.
If those that do have higher levels of technology available wholely discard antiquated technologies, an even greater divide between those economically well off and those not will be formed.
"Sorry, you can't view this webpage, you can't have access to this information.. You're not white, american, and you don't have enough money".
Surely the idea of the cyperpunk genre is to warn people of real isues today, that could severly worsen if we don't take action now. I don't think we're actually meant to wish for the environments portrayed ;).
I mean, even with the existence of sites like peekabooty (http://www.peek-a-booty.org/, -not- www.peekabooty.com :S), those in china etc already have enough restriction to information that its their right to have because of 'government' censorship, let alone because they don't have the latest wintel machine.
Darn ASP sites.
*coughs*
/rant
I think that's enough agreeing with Iga for one topic.
(Edited by Protagonist at 12:11 am on July 21, 2004)
There are many different uses for the networks right? Creative expression, political expression, social expression, academic expression, long winded expression and the sort of expression that makes the last half an hour of work seem much less painful. Yey for the maniacal imagination of the Swedes.
You guys are right, information, the basic lifeblood sort of information that creates/destroys civilizations as well as the local exchange rate, weather report and police blotter, should be easily accessible to all. This includes those with slower, creakier, clunkier and beiger computers then those on the mantles of the upper economic bracket used to play the latest Spiderman 2 DVD.
If you feel that your information is vital then you should spend the time to make sure a good chunk of the world, not just the tech elite can access it. Text is a magical, lowresource, highly flexible creation. We�re on a Moo, we kinda, sorta, maybe already know that?
Is multiple ways of saying the same thing redundant? Maybe, but that�s not entirely a bad thing is it? Plenty of people are doing it. Take even here as an example, these boards and the site(?true?) can be access via cell phones. At it's most basic, you don't even need to be able to display images to be part of the SD community. You just need to know how to write and read in english.
Dancing penisis (peni?) and a take on euro pop, however needed, are not vital, at least not in the same sort of way as the latest news, notes about the local elections, bylaw info, tech FAQs etc. ;)
But if you�re into the visual arts, flash is a necessary tool, however much it�s maligned by a certain segment of the geek community. :P
bork. i say.
(Edited by Bias at 3:11 pm on July 21, 2004)
Kevlar, for someone heavily involved in an area of cyberpunk mindset, and I'm assuming someone that's an advocate of what cyberpunks stand for.. you sure seem to be supporting western capitalist ideals and all its associated nastyness..
You know, your right.
We should perpetually live in the dark ages, ignoring any new advancements in technology because embracing them would serve no other purpose than to make the rich richer.
We shouldn't ever create anything new and innovative because thoes not fortunate enough to experience them will be left out.
We should standardize on a suitibly affordable technology and make that the standard to which we expect all people to conform for all time, ignoring the fact that the cost of technology falls at an ever increasing rate.
If you feel that your information is vital then you should spend the time to make sure a good chunk of the world, not just the tech elite can access it. Text is a magical, lowresource, highly flexible creation.
Yeah. The whole World Wide Web, and for that matter HTTP is completely pointless. We should never have moved off Gopher, because that's the one true 'magical, low resource, highly flexible creation'. Pictures? We don't need images. Especially not moving ones.
We shouldn't make the switch to HDTV broadcasts because not everyone will be able to afford an HDTV. We'll do this while quietly ignoring the obvious fact that producing HDTV's will inevitably drive the cost of normal TV's down.
Hell, following that logic, we shouldn't have ever made TV studios, because not everyone will own a TV. Or books, because not everyone can read.
We should live in a world where the lowest common denominator is king, so no one feels oppressed, or left out, or insulted, or disenfranchised.
Protagonist: The extreme opposite you preach about is much worse than the reality will ever be. Clearly it escaped your attention how much the 'all text world of the MOO' has been buttressed by other technologies, most of which are very recent inventions.
Now run along and go be a good consumer.
-Kevlar
As for books, bring on intelectual elitism… I'm just not too into economic discrimination when peoiple can't do much about their situation.
There's a difference between supporting old technologies, and limiting advances. I'm not saying that new web and other technologies shouldn't be developed, I'm saying that whilst those are created and embraced, those that can't embrace them shouldn't be forgotten.
Technological development has also produced loads of flashy, loud, poorly designed sites.. any new technology is going to cause both positive and negative results, such as the effect the advent of dtp had on graphic design.
I personally don't like many flash sites.. finding other dynamic options like php a lot better. Flash has done wonders for animation though, and I've tinkered with it a bit.
It doesn't take a lot of effort porting a site over to bog standard html, and the current situation regarding accessability isn't too bad at all.. but your first post suggests that this is no good, which I disagree with wholely.
I want a beasty PC that can run the latest of version 3DS Max, rendering at a good speed etc. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to shun those that can't access flash and shockwave saturated sites for causing a HTML link option to appear on the index page.
...Just like I'm not going to use masked web links in my posts even when my PC isn't screwed. It takes less effort for me, and means less hassle for some others. It does mean sometimes you'll have to go to the arduous lengths of copying and pasting a bit of text, because the BgBB's Ikonboard is outdated, and the new one is shocking ;).
If we're getting into accessbility, I may as well mention that flash sites don't have tag text for buttons etc, meaning that screen readers can't read those sites, making them unavailable to the blind. But I'm sure you know this, meaning you probably already realise your argument is flawed, not that mine isn't ;).
So.. I'll eagerly await buying the newest equivelent at the time of a U70 (http://www.dynamism.com/u70/) in Japan next summer, saving �500 from import price whilst continuing to support html and other 'dark age' standards.
Hehe, I thought that you were serious about Gopher before I finished reading that paragraph ;).
Can't beat a bit of raw text.
/rant
Of course. But what better way to demonstrate my point?
I'm just not too into economic discrimination
So what's the alternative? Communism? Should thoes who are in an economically superior situtation (for whatever reason) be forced to live below their stature and means just so thoes who arn't don't feel so bad?
when peoiple can't do much about their situation.
That's a terrible sterotype. Not everyone is born into abject poverty without recourse to change their situtation. Millions of people all over the world 'Do something about their situtation' every day.
I fail to see how making a site in flash because you require a rich medium for your intented product amounts to economic discrimination.
As for my post amounting to discrimination… well, I think you missed the point: It wasn't (really) commentary, it was satire. Laugh, don't take it to heart.
Iga got it. He laughed.
-Kevlar
Quote: from Kevlar on 5:43 pm on July 21, 2004[br]As for my post amounting to discrimination… well, I think you missed the point: It wasn't (really) commentary, it was satire. Laugh, don't take it to heart.Iga got it. He laughed.
-Kevlar
Yeah but he woulda laughed either way.
:stoner2:
Quote: from Kevlar on 5:43 pm on July 21, 2004[br]Iga got it. He laughed.-Kevlar
Does that sets any kind of rating?
Like "Even Iga got it…"
:paranoid:
Quote: from Protagonist on 8:27 pm on July 21, 2004[br]
I want a beasty PC that can run the latest of version 3DS Max, rendering at a good speed etc.
You don't need a beasty PC to run the latest Max. Nvidia GeForce cards and Nvidia Quattros ('work' card) use the same basic chipset, so third parties have written drivers that make GeForce cards perform comparably to Quattros with 3dsmax, Lightwave, XSI and so forth. As for rendering, you need a monster processor? Nope.
A P4, full system with 256 megs of ram (though with cheesy HD, onboard video and sound) will run you about 350 bucks. Canadian. Get four of these and some network cards, then when your scenes are ready for final rendering, you set the display to bounding box, save the files and then open em on the other PCs. You end up with a monster render farm for less than the price of a new PC.
Oh, and a lower-end, brand new ATI FireGL (another work card) or just a 3d Labs Oxygen wont run you more than 300$. Plenty for whatever you may be doing on-screen, unless you're an amateur who can't optimise a scene to save his life. In which case, go out and learn.
You wanna know what I use to surf the net, with NO slowdown and every plugin needed for any damn site? A PII laptop, 233Mhz, 96 megs of ram. Iy has a bunch of my gfs stuff on it, but once the new boxes
So whether you can afford the top of the line or if you're using 5 year old gear, you can still enjoy everything the internet has to offer, if you know what you're doing. You have to compensate lack of money with cleverness and knowledge.
Now, if you have brains AND money, then you can make the great stuff you can afford go even further.
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, or maybe it does, but there's a homeless guy on our street who inside his shopping cart has a digital camera and a working pentium 2 box hooked up to a monitor and keyboard/mouse. He powers it up whenever he's camped/stopped by a plug. Now, i'm not sure if he's got a wireless card. I'll have to ask him next time I see him.
Quote from Murphy:
"Get four of these and some network cards, then when your scenes are ready for final rendering, you set the display to bounding box, save the files and then open em on the other PCs. "
How about 5 Pentium thinkpadswith 64megs of ram each? ;) Hooking them up would be a bitch…
Quote: from Bias on 2:26 am on July 22, 2004[br]
How about 5 Pentium thinkpadswith 64megs of ram each? ;) Hooking them up would be a bitch…
Stop that…you're reminding me of the gaggle of PI Intergraph workstations we had at school back when I was still studying, and how they told us that was our render farm...*shudder*
Say, anyone out there got any leads on Japanese rappers? Who rap in Japanese? Or bad english?
Soul Scream is also funky stuff (and I mean that in a genre, not postive adjective way), and is more 'rapped' than Dragon Ash.
I've also got some stuff like a cover of Coolio's Gangsters Paradise, which sounds identical.. except that it's in Japanese! Wasn't Coolio's tune a cover as well?
I may as well recommend some tunes whilst I'm at it.
Dragon Ash:
Grateful Days (seen as their theme tune now).
Fantasista
Dark Cherries
Viva La Revolution
Shizuka na Hibi no Kaidan Wo (Battle Royale end credits music)
Soul Scream:
Kuroi tsuki no yoru
And yeah, the french language is very well suited to rap (eg Iam- Nes Sous La Meme Etoile), as is japanese in my opinion. However, I don't like romatic languages so you're on your own there.. but I suspect you've got plenty anyway.
As for American stuff, Ugly duckling is pretty cool. Can't beat a bit of Necro either *coughs*…
Right, I'm off...
And though not Japanese Oxide&Neutrino, and the so solid crew have british accents(suprize suprize guess where their from) which make their style interesting as hell.
"Bound For The Reload" and "No Good For me" are both great songs.
(Edited by Jotun at 1:44 am on July 24, 2004)
I ask because I'm working on a prototype for a site that will have this design exactly.
-Kevlar
Accessibility is not about living in the dark ages, it's about trying to separate content from container. (Hrm. I wonder if the people in the 'dark ages' knew they where living in the dark ages? Er.. anyhoo.)
If the content -is- the container (ex: art sites, most design sites, games) then too bad for people who have piddly technology or have to rely on Kinko's or dial up because they live in Saskatchewan. No, really, too bad. Bowing down to the lowest common denominator creates a very bland and watered down situation, as has been said. If the key/vital content can be separated from the container and presented in a universally accessible form then it's an advantage for the presenter to do so. Kudo�s for doing that.
