Clones and cloning

Nicadeamus posted :-
I don't mean to ruin anyones day or RP, but this is 2086. A broken leg is an easy repair job for a half asses med student. You got a concussion, they can fix it in seconds with a few meds and nano-medicals. If you have the money of course.

Internal bleeding? Nano-coagulants and repair bots.

Blind? Optic nerve replacement or cyber eyes.

cracked ribs? Pishaw!

Keep in mind the technological level here in the dome. It's not the year 2K1. So if you wanna play ill, go for it, but keep it real. I'm not showing any IC sympathy to someone with the chyen to go up to the hospital on green and get some basic medical attention. �
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Lucifer posted :-

Right... in 85 years they can repair brain damage... hrm... I really don't think so... everthing else, yea, but its RP, go with it. Never asked for sympathy. Its RP that I trying to use to spawn other things.
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Stonemonk posted :-

Nothin' a good ol' Clone death couldn't cure.
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Rastus posted :-

Actually...
Scientist just this week announced that they had promoted the healing and regrowth of damaged brain cells in mice by injecting brain stem cells directly into the brain of the mice, effectively promising a cure for brain damage... So... Never mind 2085, they're doing it already. �
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Nicadeamus posted :-

exactly.

2086? Not able to repair brain damage? -THEY CAN MAP THE HUMAN MEMORY 100%- Of COURSE they can fix a bit of brain damage.

Or reclone you

or put a computer in your head to compensate.

It's not like getting hit by a car causes damage to your DNA. I was fine with the memory loss thing. Plausable. You update after getting hit, bits of data could be gone even when you reclone. But internal bleeding and blindness and a broke leg? BAH! �
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Lucifer posted :-

Ok, a little tid-bit on clones that I think has gotten a bit outah hand....

Clones are clones, yes... but they aren't there for everyone to run off a building everytime they get any kind of major injury... There are, or should be, things associated with cloning. Yet, some talk about it as another quicl 2K chyen cure. There are going to be emotional effects to dying, yet, not many play them out... threats of clone disease, problems cloning, increased chance for random mutations that would carry over to future clones, etc.

In my personal opinion, clones are too cheap. People die, then run over and grab another clone. They see someone with possible mortal injury, 'Hey, go jump off Westinghaus and we'll tell ya what happened when ya get back...' Its /not/ that easy. The clone is not the same person, no matter how you look at it, because the other person died.

Just my bitch for the day... er... hour... ok, minute.
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Lucifer posted :-

Now, mapping the memory is a gimme. As for repairing brain cells, thats a gimme too. The only thing is the information stored in the brain cannot be perfectly repaired, its lost. You can't tell me that cells know exactly what impulses to replace, nah.

Enough technobabble. Ever think of saying some of this shit IC Nic? Didn't think so, you hafta insult the controler first. Remember, his memory is shot to hell and he can't think very well. And also, did you ever think of reasons for RP why he wouldn't go jump of Westinghaus? Or do you just have to be right and RP can't be done unless your way? NEWSFLASH! There is no right RP, everyone has there own, deal with it, don't insult.
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Rastus posted :-

Lucifer has a fair point.
Do me a favor... go make a jpg of a jpg of a jpg of a jpg (repeat 100 times) -or- make a photocopy of a copy of a copy of a copy (repeat 100 times). Each and every copy features miniscule degredation from the previous version, un-noticable in one copy, but pile them up and the flaws become apparent.
Cloning works just like that, I'm not going to tell you if it has a chance of being a problem after 10 clones, 100 clones or 1 million clones, I'm just saying that there would be IC knowledge that repeated cloning is bad for you. Treat every clone as if it were your last, when clone sickness sets in you will not be a happy person.
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Nicadeamus posted :-

Hmmm. True. I think there should be differant levels of clones. Shitty, average, and damn good. With the costs to match. And penalties. (drops in stats, �failed clone processes causing perma. Ect.) It is probably in the very backlogged pipe right admin? �
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Lucifer posted :-

Two things, first. Mapping the memory doesn't always have to be perfect. So RPing memory loss could be very cool.

Next, stat dropping shouldn't be added. You might die, get a clone, then die again, and you lose stats twice. Losing stats after your last update is enough. As for possible problems with cloning? See below:

Clone Sickness: (Its coming kiddies)

Temp Weakness: (Temporarily lowered stats)

Memory Loss, Temp/Perma: (Common sense)

Fever/Chills: (Random IC messages)

Shakes: (Randomly might drop stuff they are holding)

Seisures: (Randomly drop unconcious for a few minutes)

Speech impairment: ( A nice idea, just like how whispers are scrambled, all speech would be set with some scrambling)

Unable to use limbs TEMP: (Might not be able to walk... IC cructhes/wheelchairs could help)

Blurry vision: (Lowered PCP, might not see whos in room sometimes, slower reflexes so lowered dodge)

Blood Loss: ( Clone has abnormal ammount of blood, END lowered)

The possibilities go on and on... wether you RP them, or they actually get coded... the possibilities are ENDLESS.
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Rastus posted :-

The cloning system is pretty much as complete as it gets, aside from some tweaks with the messaging of the 'go clone' command. Consider, cloning is in it's early stages today, in 2001. Then consider any science that is 85 years old, most of it is pretty advanced by that time in it's life, hence, cloning in 2086 isn't only an everyday occurance, it's as much a part of life as your PC or VCR is today. It is the norm.
If you want an example of how this change in science has effected society, consider the law. The WJF laws of 2086 consider imprisonment as a significantly more sever punishment than being sentenced to death. Imprisonment is now the severest form of punishment, since it takes away your life where execution does not. When the WJF executes you, you have served your sentence, your clone is (generally) absolved of all crimes commited by your prior self. And no, the WJF cannot delete clone data, the global clone treaty has authority on that matter and clearly stats the rules and guidelines for cloning science. Clone data cannot be tampered with, destroyed or used without consent of the 'owner'... That doesn't mean it can't happen, just means it won't happen legally in the IC world.
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Nicadeamus posted :-

Yes I know about clone (and Jpeg) degridation. Yes I understand that cloning is traumatic. Yes I know there are IC reasons. Yes I have an IC reason for not bringing it up to/mentioning it to Lucifer. Yes I am bitching. Yes pigs have been seen flying outtah my ass. No I am not trying to insult any controlers or people on the MOO. YES I was pointing out that certain things in 2086 Withmore city are differant than today. Yes I am a monkey. NO I am not a baboon. Yes I was attempting to point out what I felt was a discontinentuity in the way the atmosphere of the dome was looked at. No I am not perfect, except on Sundays. Yes everyone RPs in thier own way. �and finally, YES I am finished. I think. who knows. YES this is the bitching forum for a reason. �
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Sirius posted :-

Clones,

I think they should be from different areas, costing a different prices ranging from 2K to 15K. You get what you pay for. You pay 2K for a clone you take a chance of getting a weak clone, perhaps clone failure.
where as you pay 15K for a clone it is going to be a top of the line clone. Nothing wrong with it and no chance of clone failure.

Updates should cost more than 200 also I would like to see them 1K a pop and as high as 5K a pop.

Now that sounds neato.
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Lucifer

eh, updates should be universal. Clones should vary. Updates all do the same thing anyways :P
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Discuss. :cool:

Just because you don't see a difference, doesn't mean there isn't one.

Two, I'm no kiddie, even whe you put it in parenthesis…

Three If you RP forgetting things, yer probably gonna get called on trying to skip out on what you owe or something. But anyway....

I like the idea of having same priced cloning places, with some being better than the other. Leads to the chance of choosing wrong. I like that chance :)

Remember, the more you die, the higher the chance of DCD.

The way to stop it would be to -NEVER- update your clone after the first time you were ever cloned, instead just recreating a new person from that first DNA sample over and over. Problem being, you would -never- have any memories after the day of your first cloning.

The reason for DCD is simple, copies of copies of copies of copies… For examples of this. Take a picture, any picture and photocopy it. Then photocopy the photocopy. Then photocopy the photocopy of the first photocopy. Etc etc etc. Each time you do it, the new copy will have tiny differences from it's source. Tiny differences that are multiplied with each successive copy. Repeat it enough times and all you'll be left with is a blurry mess.

The same works if you take a jpg, and jpg optimize it, and jpg optimize, and jpg optimize... ever picture is a tiny little bit different. Unnoticable at first, but with each successive copy the flaws begin to multiply.

DCD - I think Johnny said it best: Live long, Die seldom.

And if you think that makes it unfair on the high risk professions like Judges, I refer you to Blade Runner. "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very very brightly..."

There's alot of plus' to being a Judge. All good things come at a cost.

But...

In many ways you have some good points, but you made one incorrect statement that flawed otherwise good thoughts... the transfer of the soul -is- a coded fact. I assume you either haven't died on SD or perhaps missed the slant of play that, at least to me, suggests the transfer of soul... When you awaken after death you find yourself in the tunnel of light, with the ability to go to the light (perma-death) or travel into an awaiting clone husk, should there be one available... I'm not sure what the exact messages at the moment read, I know there's still some clumsy issues with clone messaging, or lack thereof, I'm not sure of their current state of repair... but anyhow... the thing in the tunnel of light is not a physical presence, so one would assume it to be your 'soul'...

I don't want to get into an ugly and pointless discussion about soul, religion, life after death, cloning and bad Arnie movies, so that's all I have to say for now. At the end of the day, it's a continuation of your character... play the game....

Bite the wax tadpole.

And frankly, the US would just initiate something, some sort of law to stop the clone process for repeat offenders.

Theory number one.
Your clone is not you. Totally different from you. Hence, people that believe this have no problem leaving their problems for 'the next guy/gal in line'.

Theory number two.
Your clone is you, carbon copy. Yes, so there's a bit of degradation.. big deal. If you die, well, same person upstairs. But each clone has a separate soul.

Theory number three. (Favored by religious groups.)
Your clone is you. Through and through, on a spiritual level. These would be the people who believe that, yes, when you die you get the choice(or get the choice made for you by a higher being) to place your soul in a new body.

Actually I can see some very interesting stories coming from people after they die.. the 'tunnel' not being remembered by most, or dismissed as hallucination for those few who do remember it.. and perhaps by those who don't see it as a hallucination, well.. this is where the third one comes in.

And for that matter, I'm sure everyone else could think of more ideas in what people would believe in this regard too.

Just a nice little anecdote on OOC fun with IC consequences.

IC'ly I've never been killed.  And Devi has serious issues with cloning.  Just ask Nic, we go, her kicking and dragging her feet, once a week, and clone, much to her dismay.

(Side note before I forget, this reminds me of a story I read once...it was by Orson Scott Card I *think*...  About a fat guy who gets a thin clone every six months and what happens.  I had to read it for ethics in HS my freshman year.  I reccomend it.)

Anyway, Devi's opinion is that she has a soul, and that she doesn't think the soul clones when they clone the cells.  So I get to come up with arguments why I should not have to clone, why it won't be me if I ever die, etc. etc.

*This one's free*

Quote: from Astrophel on 1:47 pm on June 12, 2001[br]To hell with DCD, someone needs to blow up the cloning tanks, force everyone to live every second on the edge of their seat. �Some people have to live without clones already, what if eveyone had to? �How would that change your RP? �

I was just looking through the bgbb out of boredome and I thought this was an interesting point.