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Do I have mix theme wrong?

I am more and more questioning myself. I play the game, when I walk the mix I pay close attention to the ambience messages, and they are insanely… Cruel.

They painted extreme poverty, rampant abuse by gangers, random acts of violence over scraps and all that around every step. And that makes sense to me as I read help theme.

But also often I feel like I am the only one person seeing things like that, with people rejecting this like sometimes almost safe. I heard more than one person say that as long as you pay tolls, mix is pretty safe actually... It feels like complete ignorance of the ambience to justify not wanting to get the hell out of there honestly.

Am I wrong here?I am happy to be told that i am completely and entirely in the wrong here, I kind of want to be wrong. Because yeah, of course we do not have npcs randomly doing those things to PCs, that would make playing the game miserable, but that should not justify denying the theme just because maybe poverty and that background danger is not as fun to play as the opportunity dreamworld?

You're not wrong at all for seeing and feeling that –- the Mix is absolutely painted as a terrifying, brutal place in both theme and ambience. That imagery is intentional and it's powerful. But I think where the disconnect happens is between what the world is thematically, and what players need it to be in order to create sustainable, meaningful RP.

Yes, the Mix is cruel. There's systemic poverty, violence, exploitation. But if we only lean into that without room to breathe, to connect, to build something (even if it's fragile or doomed), it can shut down RP instead of fostering it. Always punching down, always being in survival mode gets exhausting fast. For many players, having pockets of relative "safety" or consistency isn’t about denying the theme, but about making it playable.

So I don’t think you're wrong for reading the setting as dire -- it is. And I don't think others are wrong for carving out places where RP can happen without constant dread. Ideally, we hold space for both: to honor the oppressive setting, and to explore what people do to survive, dream, rebel, or even pretend within it.

Because that tension -- the horror and the hope -- is what can make the Mix feel truly alive.

Or maybe we need to remove some of the severed heads and make room for people to sever there won. I don't actually read those anymore as I learned early on they don't mean anything.

I mean, you can balance those two though.

Your PC can still both be terrified of the situation, and represent it as horrible, but also as finding some way to survive it and continue life as… What else can you do? Humans adapt and move on, but that doesn't make the place safe, just acceptance of danger. So for example you go to a bar, but every now and then randomly glance behind you to see if someone is coming to stab you. Small thing, stops no rp, but ads to the ambience.

But when people very often and openly just act like it is safe, and misrepresent it very publicly as such it is becoming hard to push against as you get drowned out and I am genuinely doubting myself as I result. There are some extreme ic examples I saw, especially around "entitlement of tolls" where somehow you stand on a street, owned by 10k+ gangers who just killed someone for 200 chy, but you will argue because 'I paid my toll'.

Like... I do not have end goal here, wanted to vent out my frustration here.

I think the Mix goes through peaks and valleys of terribleness and a lot of the horrible stuff happens to a relative minority of the playerbase usually due to time, opportunity and the different character personalities coming into contact with one another. I'm all for ramping up the brutality both in the Mix and topside, at least for awhile, but I do think it's better if it eases down to a minimum at times too. It's hard to betray people if you can never make any friends.
The mix can be rough in different ways. But it can also be kind. I think the reason behind the latter is mostly because we want new players to stick around. It's easy to get overwhelmed. I think the Idea of helping out new players really does the fact the place is a hell on earth an injustice.
I don't see that as a disconnect or a divide. I see it as the players, especially the ones with that sort of outlook, being those that are street savvy or dangerous enough to protect themselves. The ambience is showing the general lowly, downtrodden masses while the player characters are usually above that.

If you ever spend any time in a big city with neighborhoods that are considered very dangerous, where crime happens right out in the open on the street with cops often looking the other way, you will see the same thing. The general every day Joe and the Tourists will tread carefully and always been on edge while those with street smarts or street toughs move around like it's all just normal and they have nothing to fear. When I lived in San Fran, I was in the later camp.

In San Fran I lived in the middle of Crack Alley, where there were tones of cheap weekly rented hotels where all the crack addicts hung out. There was violence going on constantly, drug dealers out in the open and honestly, I couldn't make it a block without someone trying to solicit or hit on me. In the middle of crack Alley, I lived in a very secure high rise with multiple layers of security at the entrance and when I went out, I was often carrying a sword and most of the locals were very aware I knew how to use it if I had to. And before anyone tries to call BS on that, swords are absolutely legal in San Fran and most of California and common enough that a lot of bars won't even stop you from wearing it in their establishments, which isn't to say they are common, but you do occasionally see someone wearing one, especially in and around Japan Town or China Town. For anyone familiar with San Fran wondering what neighborhood I'm talking about, it's SOMA, south and southwest of the Powell BART station between the Expo and nightclub district, market street, the warehouse district and the Mission, which is the Mexican part of the city. Dolby's main headquarters is right on the edge of that neighborhood, and there are several famous bars and nightclubs in or right around the edge of it as well as a couple sex and BDSM clubs.

In addition to living in a bad neighborhood, my most common hangouts were in the Tenderloin, which is the redlight district of San Fran, and lower Haight Street, which is heavy gang turf with lots of project housing. Most of the people I regularly associated with were well aware of all the poverty, abuse, crime and victimization in any of those neighborhoods but all of us existed kind of above and outside of it and didn't pay much attention to it as it was just ambient atmosphere and not stuff that often touched any of us.

This is not out of the ordinary in most major cities, like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Boston, Atlanta, Miami all have similar neighborhoods. The Mix is just one of those types of neighborhoods on steroids and pushed to the dystopian cyberpunk amplification of it's volume, but the types of people that move in and exist in those settings would also be pretty similar.

I think one important thing to remember is that we’re playing a game. If we want to keep new players engaged and allow people to build complex schemes – like backstabbing friends or subverting corporations -- it has to be balanced.

You can’t really pull off meaningful betrayal or political subversion if the game environment is so harsh or hostile that you lose RP connections and friends every time you try. Building trust and relationships is crucial to making those storylines work, and if the danger or brutality is constant and overwhelming, it just pushes people away.

So yes, the Mix should feel dangerous and tense, but there also needs to be space for players to connect and collaborate. That's their home. The mix is awful but it's where their opportunities are. They know the Gangers. They know the Joys. They know the Bartenders. They know - the people.

I think the better question is - is there a lack of fear or a lack of respect for players who are in the corporate realm and expecting it?

I don't know where people got the idea that this should result in players actually getting attacked or dissuaded from RPing, but I see it already fully derailed this way. Took 3 posts hah.

My original point boils down to people who publicly misrepresent the mix as some safe place, and do so repeatedly. This results in more people doing so, and it makes all rp in the dome jarring, just like if people started RPing topside sectors as a wasteland warzone would impact rp in the mix.

But also I think I am done with this thread already too.

I'm glad you shared your thoughts and I'm not entirely sure it's been de-railed but instead expanded on.

The mix ISN'T deadly to RP in. Period. So it's RP'd that way. It's not scary to walk around in. It's not dangerous. It's just not.

If it was otherwise maybe it'd be RP'd as such but maybe the expectations need adjusting so there's less disappointment.

That's a bit like saying "Because PCs can make tons of money in the mix, Mix should not be RPed as being poor".

PCs are exception, not the norm.

At the end of the day, the PCs are the focus because this is a game. If we focus too much on the harsh theme or treat the setting like a strict reality, it can take away a lot of the fun and limit the kinds of RP people want to have. That's like saying your PC shouldn't be allowed to have 100k in their banke account because they live in the mix. Or you can't have nice clothes bought from Green because - you live in the mix and will be instantly robbed.

The setting should support player stories and interactions, not overshadow them

I had to completely rewrite this to not be snarky.

Several characters have been permed in the last year, all mixers. Many people have been robbed and bullied right out of the game, all mixers.

I do not agree with OP one bit. The mix is pretty rough. It's in a lull right now because a lot of the big bads have rotated out, and new ones need to step up. But they will, they always do.

@Aida - You're not the only one that reads the mix that way and I think there are a lot of people that make an effort to reinforce that aspect of theme. Its good you're one of them! I know it can get discouraging sometimes but try not to sink under it. (Ive definitely been there) There will be waves of highs and lows in storytelling. When big plot pushers move on or shift their attention this can happen. Gangers in particular have an opportunity to push it and I think the ones we have do. One in particular comes to mind. Go gangers go ♡

@Queen - I have to disagree. We have very vibrant, heavy theme to frame our characters within and we shouldn't ignore it. When they do, you start to see people complaining about "fluffy" rp. This game in particular has a very sharp, brutal theme. If there's someone flaunting safety or fancy things too much without having bothered to build up a network to secure it, they just might get their ass handed to them. Sometimes the theme crushes them. See any characted spiral. If a non-combat PC rolls around without securing some kind of protection ic (corp backing, scary friends, cash money for services), they will likely suffer. No one should be immune to theme. If someone refuses to acknowledge the bear, it eats them. Plenty of PCs are triggered when someone laughs off the harshness of the world when their neighbor Jim just permed last week. Nancy strutting around in her prog cloth heels giggling about how much chy she has in the bank is likely going to get a visit from her friendly neighborhood ganger. Happens to overly confident Junior corpcits (or even well connected Seniors) all the time too.

I'm well aware of spirales @paper :) I've had my fair share of them. But they stopped once I stopped trying to compare myself to others. I'm not good at playing to the theme in the same way others seem to want it to be. I'm not mean, I'm not brutal and I'm not good at manipulating. So if that's the way it's supposed to be then - I can think of a few people who shouldn't be playing.

We're here to tell stories. Find a way to make the best out of what we got and RP with the people we can get along with. Isn't that the point?

The game sets the stage and the props and the theme but the actors (the players) are the stars of the show. It’s not uncommon to see bad actors, or rather, poorly cast actors who don’t do their written roles proper justice. Sometimes those actors get carried by their co-stars and side characters who make the whole play greater than the sum of its parts. In other words, we are the theme, and if someone’s steering too far away from it, it’s on us to remind them of it, by any means necessary:)
The game sets the stage and the props and the theme but the actors (the players) are the stars of the show. It’s not uncommon to see bad actors, or rather, poorly cast actors who don’t do their written roles proper justice. Sometimes those actors get carried by their co-stars and side characters who make the whole play greater than the sum of its parts. In other words, we are the theme, and if someone’s steering too far away from it, it’s on us to remind them of it, by any means necessary:)
There is a balancing act between playing a character who lives, breathes and ENFORCES (read ; imposes upon others) the brutal, dark, gritty "reality" of what Mix Lyfe is. And being a player who has to exist among a relatively small player base.

Put another way, in countless ways it is counter-productive and anti-social to be the personification of unrestrained exploitation of the weakest and most vulnerable characters. Bullies get ganged up on. Anti-social behavior leads to very real isolation.

On the other hand, we owe it to ourselves and to other players to keep the theme ever present in our roleplay. There are countless ways to do that. One of my favorite ways is to have a few narrative hooks ready for when other characters ask some version of, "How have you been? What have you been up to? What's going on?"

Something simple like, "I swear that I heard my neighbor murder his roommate last night. It was screaming. And breaking things. A few wet, visceral sounding thuds.. and then…. nothing." or "You wouldn't believe the drek I saw walking by this alley... and the sounds, the screaming and pleading for life.."

Others have already mentioned the more obvious ways to make the Mix dark and gritty. This is a PVP game after all. "Beat that Mixer and make their shit your shit." is very themely. Especially if they're a non-combat character flaunting a bunch of wealth. Clothes are easy SIC credit. Tools are expensive and hard to replace. Breathing taxes are a thing.

I think that extreme version in the room descriptions doesn't make sense if taken too literally. I don't think slums work like that, not even with high crime or lots of gang violence. There needs to be some way for the locals to be 'safe enough', or the whole place would depopulate. And protection schemes only work if the people who pay protection money are actually left alone afterwards - otherwise, why pay?
The true vibe of the Mix ebbs and flows with the playerbase as well. It is, in many ways, a jungle. The jungle feels different depending on what kinds of animals are in it at the same time as you, which ones you bump into, if they have eaten recently, and which ones you only hear about.

I can say from experience that the jungle shifts and changes over the weeks months and years depending on the personalities that grow, change, evolve, and perm.

The important part is to make a character that isn't just a reflection of yourself, take risks, go big, and have fun even when you fail. Which you will. A lot. Repeatedly. And probably violently so.

Don't just be a safari member on a guided tour through the jungle. Try the be an ANIMAL! RAWR!

@Queen

"I'm not mean, I'm not brutal and I'm not good at manipulating."

I'm not either but my characters don't live in the same world I do. My characters are products of their environment and thankfully are very different from me.

"We're here to tell stories. Find a way to make the best out of what we got and RP with the people we can get along with. Isn't that the point?"

Not for everyone. Some antags work very hard to create story for others. They give us someone to fight and to band together against. They're products of their environment too with their own motivations and desires as messed up as they might be. A character may act violently against you but that doesn't mean the player hates you. The best antags give people plot hooks. Its exhausting and disappointing for them when their efforts to give rp are tossed away by no selling or confusing the player with the character. While I think we'd all say there's different playstyles, I hope we'd also all agree no selling isn't cool.

@paper

Yeah, I agree, completely shutting things down isn't ideal. But honestly, some of the people being antagonistic seem to think they’re "driving RP," when really they’re just making things miserable. I stopped caring what they think a while ago. If that counts as “no selling,” then so be it. That’s not the kind of RP I want to be part of.

I love this game. I came back to it for a reason. But, I came back stubbornly determined to write stories and not allow others opinions to make me hate the way I RP.

If change needs to be made, I want the Admins to push it. The players are just doing what they can.

@duck

IMO , I see you doing something that I've done in the past. That is, trying to make sense of project 2025 ideas of what a slum is, upon the Mix. It's natural. We tend to work with what we know.

FWIW , I suggest considering the Mix as worse than the worst slums of Brazil, or Bangladesh, or Cape Town. I imagine them as that kind of poverty and population density. With the added dynamic of an endless stream of new people showing up every hour, of every day.

The extreme version of the room descriptions "works" if we consider that there isn't enough room in Red sector for everyone who keeps arriving in Withmore. The WJF doesn't care. The city council doesn't care. They're taking their 2000c a head whether or not there is food, shelter and water for those people. Much less jobs.

In that version, "everyone" who has a place is constantly defending it. Everyone who has a job, is worried about losing it. Everyone who has chy in their pocket, or food, is worried about someone taking it from them. A someone who is doing it because they HAVE to. They either take, or they die from a lack of … food, shelter, etc.

Meanwhile, the WJF and CorpSec do everything they can to keep "that" reality in the Mix. To keep it off of Gold. And definitely off of Green.

What do you think about that version?

Perceptions play a big role in how characters and players interpret and portray things.

A greeter's job can be a very tightwalk balance, on one hand its their 'job' to give new players a taste of what the theme is like, without making that 'taste' so unpalatable that the new arrival decides they just want to quit.

Externally that can look surfacely like 'oh as long as you do x, y, & z everything's fine!' even when the character might know that they're overstating that "safety" but that's part of the balance, providing that glimpse of the "hope of a better life" that a lot of characters are coming to Withmore with.

From the perspective of a ganger, in their territory things might seem reasonably cushy, but gangers also generally kill and are killed on a regular basis. Threats are made, people stopped on the streets. Beatings delivered and so on. They have their own balance by being the brutality, while not being so oppressive that people just don't want to be on the streets.

Others fall somewhere in the gamut. Immy who has been relatively lucky so far or fallen in with the right people might think things are less bad than they are. Someone who has FAFO'd may be more cynical about it. How much of a persons words are a brave proclamation because they don't want to wind up on the 'FO' side of a FAFO, and how much are things that a character actually believes?

Someone playing with hope and ignorance isn't "ignoring theme" or "doing it wrong" just because their character has managed to put blinders on. The harsh reality of the mix gets everyone eventually. Let people play out their own arcs.

No one's saying anyone has to be brutal, manipulative or an antagonist but saying that antagonists make the game miserable is a great way to make those players feel bad for the kind of RP they choose to do.

There's no right or wrong way to RP. This is a PvP game and bad things will happen to your character whether you like it or not, as part of theme. Neither side should be dictating the way the other side RPs by implying they don't contribute to RP or stories or that they make things worse.

Do your own thing.

@Queen

"I love this game. I came back to it for a reason. But, I came back stubbornly determined to write stories and not allow others opinions to make me hate the way I RP. "

I'm sorry I don't really follow. Are my opinions here making you hate the way you rp? I'm not sure what you're referring to but that wasn't my intent.

I still think the best antags leave plot hooks and opportunities to respond and adapt to. Not everyone is a very good antag and there are also plenty of discussions about "punching down". But there is also a lot to their side of things too. I think there is room for us all to be more charitable when it comes to assuming a player's intention. Its a pretty complex thing I think. One of those tightropes that are hard to walk.

Pointing back to OPs post, I don't think it's acceptable to ignore the theme ever because when we make a character, we make them with the understanding that we are playing within the setting set. Thats all I was trying to say. However I agree with Huntress that some characters may develop ic reasons not to scream everytime they see a corpse or delusions that keep them from seeing them at all. Those ic reasons will also garner ic responses as well, some of them unfavorable. Its part of what makes the game seem alive.

@cowbell

"There's no right or wrong way to RP. This is a PvP game and bad things will happen to your character whether you like it or not, as part of theme. Neither side should be dictating the way the other side RPs by implying they don't contribute to RP or stories or that they make things worse."

I totally agree!

And I didn't mean to say that people are making the game miserable. But, from my own experience, there are those whose form of antagonism is not RP encouraging for me. And that's ok. It may produce RP for others.

We're a mix of players. We all respond to different things.

BUT - if we are supposed to be playing the theme harder in the mix, than I think that's something we have to let Admins decide on.

@paper

You personally? No. I'm a big fan of yours. Others - absolutely. Which was what I meant when you said that some antags put a lot of work into their RP hooks to have them no-sold on. I acknowledge they may have put a lot of work into something, but if their work put into it is on something that's only fun for them, I will ignore it :)

A couple thoughts here.

First, people that RP rose colored glasses about the mix can be made examples of until they stop. I can think of reasons for faction members and individuals alike to want to do this if they heard someone bragging that the mix is sunshine and daffodils.

Second, players have the power to push ambient theme without having to commit to doing dastardly things in every plot they're a part of. Use your poses and spoofs to do more than express your body language.

Ex: .step into the Drome and .look around. %P .eyes scan over to a commotion near the Strategery table, some baka is being dragged out into the street and promising he'll pay soon. %S .goe the other way toward the bar, giving the sharks a wide berth.

Ex: .shove through the crowd, shouldering people out of the way to get to the bar. %S .buffalo toward her favorite seat and brandishes a knife at the blank sitting in it. "Move." A predatory smile flashes over her face as the whelp flees, leaving his drink behind. %S .pick it up. "Don't mind if I do."

Ex: !The masses press in on JoeBaka, but he ignores the sound of begging urchins and shouting gangers, focused only on the biz at hand.

I hope this helps a little.

@Hek

After reading some room descriptions - they don't really reflect the degree of ultraviolence that some seem to expect, either. Violence, crime, underfed children, gangers killing each other? Sure. But somehow it's worse than every imaginable slum in 2025? I'm just not seeing it.

Why would it be? There are and have been places with much worse resource scarcity than what I see in Red sector. In these situations, there's still some cooperation and structure, not just people randomly killing each other. Humans don't really work that way. The risk/reward ratio of killing some random stranger is pretty low. You can rob someone and take their shit without killing them. Killing after that has very few upsides, but draws extra attention and may make you a target for friends or family members seeking revenge, gangers who want a tax for killing on their turf, or just some rando who has had enough of the psychopaths.