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Genuine question, not a shit post. Do you all find the personas that act so uneducated they borderline on three stooges type behavior to be in theme? These types of characters have always been around, and for me there has always been a fine line between in theme versus a meta style comic-relief that's just so extra it breaks immersion.
Has this type of play always been around, or did it develop through continual riffing off others and evolved into something ridiculous?
I find it increasingly difficult to interact with characters that behave as if they are some form of caveman thrown into the modern world. Of course I find it amusing (at times), and -some- of it is 'themely' for the uneducated masses of Withmore. But isn't there a more appropriate way to play these types of characters? Maybe it's more difficult to find subtle ways to show your character is more brawn than brain, but "stupid" characters can tell nuanced stories, too.
By Grig at Jul 24, 2024, 9:17 AM
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WAGE SLAVE
26 posts
playing a caricature of a theme is a common trope in writing and roleplay. people can play their characters how they like. people can be bimbos, braniacs, and everything in between. policing a player's behavior on that level seems silly to me, because we can all choose to play how we want. if your character doesn't like how they act, beat some sense into them or do something to either improve or worsen the situation based on the outcome you'd like
By robotdogfighter at Jul 24, 2024, 9:21 AM
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BAKALAKA
134 posts
Agreed, immersion is important. But, people come from all walks of life, that include extremely stupid people or incredibly smart people, charming or outright disgusting.
Everything in and between.
By Ociex at Jul 24, 2024, 9:24 AM
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CHUMMER
151 posts
characters can walk arould with actual feces caking every inch of their bodies and french kiss their solo girlfriend through the hole shot into their cheek just moments prior and i never see posts about those crazier characters, for some reason. but when it comes to a character not knowing something we expect them to know with our experience in the game, we all lose our minds
By robotdogfighter at Jul 24, 2024, 9:27 AM
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BAKALAKA
134 posts
I was agreeing with you Robot
By Ociex at Jul 24, 2024, 9:27 AM
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CHUMMER
151 posts
I wasn't disagreeing with you ociex
By robotdogfighter at Jul 24, 2024, 9:28 AM
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BAKALAKA
134 posts
Damn. RDF calling me out.
By eggsaresides at Jul 24, 2024, 9:41 AM
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WAGE SLAVE
21 posts
I thought we were all cosplaying as Idiocracy characters here?
By Eve at Jul 24, 2024, 9:43 AM
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BAKALAKA
123 posts
My character consumes too many electrolytes for that. It's good for them.
More on topic, there's nothing wrong with playing a character who'd never be able to graduate with a GED especially since there are characters who have low INT stats. Very low INT stats that put them at below even average intelligence. There are other reasons a character could be like this too, I think it's fun and flavorful in a world where tons of people are basically cyberpunk peasants.
By Necronex666 at Jul 24, 2024, 9:45 AM
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STREET SAM
476 posts
Agreed, be end all. Without these goofy characters and outright clowns. The game would be much much more boring, not because the game is boring in itself but it adds so much to it. The game is what we all make it to be, I think that's important to remember. And not everything is everyones cup of tea, and that's okay too.
By Ociex at Jul 24, 2024, 9:47 AM
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CHUMMER
151 posts
Despite what may have been going on when I posted this, I assure you all I wasn't singling out any one character in particular, and not wanting to police anyones PC/RP but just hear some thoughts and have a discussion.
The extremes of both sides of behavior can totally be fun and enjoyable but like I said I find it to be a fine line where one moment I'm playing along and interacting and the next I'm pausing to wonder if I'm actually being trolled or not.
It helps to hear how you all view this sort of trope. Someone coming in expecting a theme in line with a bunch of Gibson novels are of course going to be broken by seeing a bunch of characters from Idiocracy. But here we are in a hodgepodge of both plus much more, which is great.
By Grig at Jul 24, 2024, 10:48 AM
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WAGE SLAVE
26 posts
I do think there is a place for uneducated or even straight out stupid characters. Especially as, in my experience, so many like to use INT as a dump stat. I do agree that it's difficult to play a stupid or uneducated character character in a way that appeals to everyone. And I do stress that, in my opinion, one can be smart but lack knowledge or knowledgeable but dumb as bricks. I think it's fine for PCs to be played as one, the other or both.
I Also get that it could be immersion breaking for some. It's tough because no two of us have the same idea when it comes to theme. Some can get close but I doubt things will ever align completely. One might find overly stupid or knowledgeable characters theme breaking. I feel the same about some things that most feel is perfectly themely. It happens.
I would also point out that SIndome can reflect reality in ways some might not like. I think it's fitting that some characters get bored and act as trolls. I think it's fine if some characters develop a persona that makes attacking them with words more difficult, even if it comes off a little silly to some. I honestly think that some cases of this crazy stupid or crazy knowledgeable RP is based on IC decisions to present a front for a specific purpose. Kind of like how some PCs present as the anime wet dream for advantage.
I do think it can feel like it's too much. I've had to check myself in the past when trying to play a character who was dumb or was acting dumb. Even then I'm sure some of my past characters were too much for some players. But it's also fine to call out these characters ICly. Weaponize their stupidity against them (who wants to trust an idiot with serious biz?) or calling out those you suspect are ICly faking or trolling. If it fits your PC and the situation.
By Grey0 at Jul 24, 2024, 10:50 AM
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LEGEND
1,044 posts
I think there's nothing wrong with playing dumb characters. I do think that caveman-style unga bunga characters do get old and are not really themely, though.
By batko at Jul 24, 2024, 11:56 AM
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LEGEND
796 posts
I think my only issue is when those types of characters end up forcing or causing newbies to leave. I know retention isn't something most worry about and the attitude that 'if they're worth having around, they'll stay,' but - I do feel that there's a line where having a character who is loud-mouthed can be a blessing versus a curse.
By QueenZombean at Jul 24, 2024, 11:59 AM
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CHUMMER
170 posts
I'm curious about that one QueenZombean… Is this something you've seen happen? Would it be possible to give a generic example that doesn't give away IC info?
By Grey0 at Jul 24, 2024, 1:06 PM
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LEGEND
1,044 posts
Honestly I kinda wish it was easier to play characters that are just kinda stupid. Unfortunately the way this game is made, the opportunity to attempt to do something and fail spectacularly at is very rare, even though I find it can be pretty funny and create a good amount of roleplay. Instead, the game's system has a lot of functions that are either you can do it perfectly, or you just can't do it at all.
Onto the rest of the discussion though, there are a lot of parts of the theme that are very difficult for me to comprehend because I don't see them as something that would realistically be possible to happen, and I feel that's what other players may feel about the types of characters discussed here.
By Emily at Jul 24, 2024, 1:49 PM
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CHUMMER
183 posts
With regards to the OP's original question, the caveman ganger thing happened once or twice and has been emulated ad nauseum ever since. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it, and it's a fairly regular thing on the game for people to try to emulate others that have come before them (or, in other cases, stick to playing the same character type across multiple characters).
We have similar issues with players not playing to their character's intelligence and acting much smarter than they should be.
I'm not sure where I am going with this but in general these types add more color to the game, though it does get a bit meme-y when you see the same archetype done over and over again.
By BigArg at Jul 24, 2024, 1:54 PM
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BAKALAKA
126 posts
I would argue, that there are different types of 'intelligence'. So what might seem stupid to some, might also seem smart to others. And problem solving can be approached from many different angles.
I feel this is not a topic so much about intelligence itself but how you decide to portray it. You can be less smart than average and still conduct yourself in a serious manner or be the smartest person in the world and act like an total idiot.
This seems to be more oriented towards goofiness, and in that regard then I would say: Yes, it has been this way for as long as I can remember.
And this being the case might be a turn off for the very serious RPers in some cases, but also a breath of fresh air for players that just want to have fun and be more carefree and lighthearted.
I think of SD kind of like the first few GTA games, they are a satire of our world and this might break immersion sometimes, but also this reminds you that you are just playing a game. So you are going to have your serious moments, but also the silly ones.
In my opinion, its important to maintain the delicate balance between these two for the better enjoyment of the game.
By GhostInTheMachine at Jul 24, 2024, 2:27 PM
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BATA
253 posts
More silly goofiness please, thank you.
By Emily at Jul 24, 2024, 2:28 PM
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CHUMMER
183 posts
If another character's behavior feels silly, make them pay for it in character. Kidnap a caveman and force him to look at literature in the grid. You know he's a waste of space otherwise and you're doing society a favor, right? Or have him beaten every time he dares be within eyesight or earshot, you elitist, you.
You don't need much reason to start conflict. Your character can be as petty or snobbish or annoyed as you want.
By Logic at Jul 24, 2024, 2:47 PM
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ADMIN
96 posts
I am all for being silly. The world can be serious and gritty but moments of levity to lighten the mood are great. Like Logic said though, you can always just take matters into your own hands or pay someone else to do so for you. Many a conflict has been started over minor differences in opinion.
By Necronex666 at Jul 24, 2024, 2:58 PM
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STREET SAM
476 posts
Something Grey0 said was that some people act dumb, that I have definitely seen done. In the past, without naming characters, I have confronted some with the suggestion that they may not be as dumb as they act and they have vaguely confirmed it to me. Sometimes, it's a front for a reason.
Secondly, something Emily said about how you can only do something perfectly or not at all gave me this funny idea about.. what if you half-succeed at something like climbing a wall/fence? Like you manage but you tumble down and get dirty because of it. Just for the funsies.
By Veleth at Jul 24, 2024, 3:06 PM
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ACE KOOL
624 posts
I do think it's easy for people to be swept up in SIC a bit too quickly without quite understanding the theme. SIC is a pretty powerful tool overall and should feel a bit scary to use. It also feels themely for people to forget about the big scaries out there in the flood of noise that's constant.
When someone isn't likeable though and start to annoy others or cross lines that they may not realize they're crossing, they'll likely get hit in the face with consequence - if not physically, then socially. Sometimes they may not even know until later. If everyone's clawing for meaning and reputation beneath the massive burden of everyday life in Withmore like every other cog in the machine, people are going to get pretty touchy when they feel their reputation is being threatened. They'll also want to flex on someone who appears weaker. I think rping annoyance is a great counter and just reinforces the overall climate. It creates story and lots of opportunity for character growth, especially if that annoyance spreads into anger. And even if someone else defends that person and likes them for whatever reason, it doesn't mean you (or rather your character) have to.
You have the looming "Withmore welcome" in many ways. While we work to soften it a bit to help newbies engage with the theme, I've seen people enforce theme pretty solidly in public and even more in private.
By Papertiger at Jul 24, 2024, 9:05 PM
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BATA
207 posts
