Mutilated English on the SIC?

So, recently there's been a trend of weird and wonderful accents in the game. That's great. There's always space in the game for this kind of thing, it enriches our characters. I notice that this wave seems to have occurred from around the time I played a prior character - I'm not trying to claim responsibility, just an observation, obviously this has been done far before my time but only recently does it seem to have really taken root in force.

Here's the thing, though; SIC is broadcasting thought. It's not broadcasting speech. People have been lifting their talking manner onto SIC proper. Aforementioned character always broadcasted concisely and in proper English over the SIC. As I understand it, there's naw reezun wotzoebbur dat hwee zhould be weaden diz awn da ZIC. Because it has nothing to do with your speech mannerisms whatsoever.

I can understand truncating certain words. Apostrophizing is a natural evolution of language and I can accept to a degree that people might apostrophize in their inner thoughts. But badly mutilating text so that it requires effort to be parsed seems contrary to what the SIC is actually doing and how it works.

Am I wrong? I'm going to be straight up and say that I dislike this trend, it irks me, that's my personal opinion. If it's correct usage of SIC then I suppose I have to deal with that, but it seems so very... not.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:18 PM

An example is broadcasting the word 'ees' in the place of the word 'is'. You're not thinking 'ees'. You're thinking 'is'. That is the essence of the thought. Just as if you think a word in another language, we don't hear that word, we receive the filtered thought.

Other languages have completely different sentence structures and grammatical rules. We don't hear these patterns over SIC because what we're receiving is the thought behind the sentence - in this way, everybody using SIC is on an even playing field both ICly and OOCly.

Verbal diarrhoea is one thing. But it comes out of your mouth, not your brain.

These are just my feelings on the matter. I assume I'm incorrect here because I haven't seen anybody weigh in on this occurrence on the SIC in the past, but hey.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:28 PM

This is further complicated by the rather natural desire to do things like rhyme over the SIC, which the GM's have made very clear does NOT work, and I should NOT be doing it. Hopefully this further informs the mentality that we need to adopt with regards to this: Singing doesn't work, rhyming doesn't work... phonetics is basically right out. So 'ess' doesn't make any sense in place of 'is'.

By ShinMojo at Dec 7, 2015 4:30 PM

Phonetics has no place on the SIC (in my opinion). This doesn't work because SIC overrides language.

From my experience, there's been an expectation for people to type correctly over the SIC. Essentially using SIC to speak in a tongue phonetically entirely unlike English makes no sense and seems to defeat this message from the staff.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:33 PM

Why wouldn't you be able to rhyme all the time? A word and a line will always rhyme no matter if said of if read in the fine. ...print.

that was awful, allow me to continue

Basically, I don't really like the awkward pronunciation on the SIC. Verbal? Fine. That's what you sound like. You're unintelligible! I'll play it as if I can't understand what you say without effort, because that's true. But the SIC, as I understand it, is supposed to transmit thought. If you were a little shit you could think really hard about "ees" to transmit that instead of "is," but if not trying to be incomprehensible intentionally, it should probably just come out as normal sounding. At least, that's what I think.

By Curt5 at Dec 7, 2015 4:35 PM

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to drop a rhyme on SIC to be entirely honest.

Sure, it translates thoughts into a way that translates for you. We've been told these thoughts can be assigned mental voices based on how we would perceive the person saying it. So these voices are in our heads... so it's not just mental imagery, but can come out as actual words to you.

Most every single person in the game speaks English. Those that don't are few and far between and also know they don't speak English. It should be up to them to wonder how the thought is a rhyme, not on the player who makes the rhyme in their own thought process.

By Stygian at Dec 7, 2015 4:42 PM

SIC isn't text. The rhyming works in English, but not everybody with a SIC chip speaks English. They're receiving thought, not English thought. Rhyming has no place in this.

If you're intentionally sending unintelligible thought over the SIC, I believe there should be IC consequences attached to this in the form of legal retribution.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:44 PM

What if you are -thinking the words-. Then yes, your thought -is- words.

Those words may not rhyme in your head if you're not good at English and they translate into Russian, for example...

But what if, what if... the SIC sends you the thought the same way someone else sent it, and made it make sense to you.

Then it would still rhyme, because you have the original thought, and it would make sense, because the SIC makes it make sense.

By Stygian at Dec 7, 2015 4:46 PM

But you're not. You're not using words. That's the whole point.

By ShinMojo at Dec 7, 2015 4:47 PM

'Sure, it translates thoughts into a way that translates for you. We've been told these thoughts can be assigned mental voices based on how we would perceive the person saying it. So these voices are in our heads... so it's not just mental imagery, but can come out as actual words to you.'

Sure, that's valid. Rather than saying there should be no rhyming on SIC period, I should say that it's something to be mindful of based on the language your character speaks and how your PC is interpreting the SIC, whether they assign a mental voice to a SIC-ID, etc.

I shouldn't say it's something to be avoided at all costs. I realize I've been coming across that way. It's something that you need to be mindful of, though.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:47 PM

An example is broadcasting the word 'ees' in the place of the word 'is'. You're not thinking 'ees'. You're thinking 'is'. That is the essence of the thought.

Why can't you go ahead and take this as the other player's indication that their character's thought-essences ARE mutilated? And bring your own IC consequences, by treating them like they can't think.

By Linekin at Dec 7, 2015 4:47 PM

Most every single person in the game speaks English. Those that don't are few and far between and also know they don't speak English. It should be up to them to wonder how the thought is a rhyme, not on the player who makes the rhyme in their own thought process.

Personally, I agree with this.

People (players) understand the IDEA of SIC. Can you be more creative about how to react to the intentions people decide to put on SIC, instead of putting all this effort into 'rulings'?

By Linekin at Dec 7, 2015 4:49 PM

Sure I can, Linekin. That's exactly why I wanted to hear a stance on this position. I've been muddling over it OOC and the explanation I came up with why it might be valid RP is if the character projecting the thoughts is brain-damaged. If there thought essence is indeed mutilated, and that is what dictates this SIC behaviour, then it's something that can be assigned ICC to.

But first I needed to know if it was appropriate IC behaviour to react to with ICC, or whether this shouldn't be occurring in the first place and therefore something that needs to be addressed OOCly, not IC.

So the clarification is appreciated, it helps.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 4:51 PM

Yes, ShinMojo, you are transmitting thoughts. But you -can- think words. There is no reason you can't transmit words. It just isn't text. Unless you're imagining the way it looks too. Then you can transmit text.

SIC is an incredibly complex idea that hasn't actually been given any real limits. This is the only thing in the helpfile for it that even defines what it does. "The implant, a tiny microchip "somewhere" in your neck, transmits chosen thoughts through the network."

Unless there is an actual policy made about what type of things the SIC is limited on sending... such as 'It only sends ideas' or 'It can send mental queues in the same way as words, but not in written form'-- there really is no point in trying to police it.

I can think words in both how they look on paper and how they sound and how I would verbally say them with how I perceive my accent.

By Stygian at Dec 7, 2015 4:53 PM

Just remember the rules of thumb: SIC isn't text, and it isn't audio either. Another is, it isn't mental-images either, so, you can't:

cm *mental image of <whatever>*

And no txtspk, 733Tspeak, or emoticons on SIC.

It's fine to 'think a word' literally. If you intend for your character to deliberately think a word as the word itself, rather than the thought behind its meaning, do it in a way which makes your intentions, and your character's intentions, clear to the other players so that we don't erupt into an argument about what your character meant.

SIC is limited bandwith, it's there for communicating, not for downloading each other's minds.

Please try to react to what people INTEND, and not to pedantic interpretations of whether it's valid gameplay or not.

Nothing ruins fun faster than someone taking it upon themselves to try to correct someone else's RP.

By Linekin at Dec 7, 2015 4:58 PM

Please don't think I'm trying to impose limitations on the SIC or correct anybody's RP. This thread wasn't about discussing rhymes or lyrics on the SIC - and I do believe that these do fit in over the SIC, my posts on the matter were more hastily written than they should have been and did a poor job of communicating my thoughts. What I rather believe is - rhyming isn't a given. I do believe that interpretations can be made so that rhymes can transcend to non-English PCs as well, although I also feel that they might not necessarily, on a character-to-character basis which is up to the player. I think understanding and reasoning how a thought is a rhyme is perfectly fine. After all, being unable to share lyrics or poetry over the SIC would be a terribly stifling limitation.

Nobody is doing that. This thread isn't attacking anybody elses RP. It was a request of 'how should I react to this?'

Obviously if it's something that shouldn't be happening on the SIC, that needs to be addressed OOCly. Because it is IC, along with your explanation, that allows me to know how to react to it ingame. Which is completely different from pedantry and trying to correct somebody else's RP.

By Euclid at Dec 7, 2015 5:04 PM

There's a whole bunch of readers of this thread. People DO attack each other's RP.

By Linekin at Dec 7, 2015 5:05 PM

Linekin wrote:

Most every single person in the game speaks English. Those that don't are few and far between and also know they don't speak English. It should be up to them to wonder how the thought is a rhyme, not on the player who makes the rhyme in their own thought process.

Personally, I agree with this.

- -

I agree with this too.

It'd be pretty fun to wonder: Why is that person thinking those thoughts like that? So odd.

- -

The other thing is:

Just remember the rules of thumb: SIC isn't text, and it isn't audio either. Another is, it isn't mental-images either, ...

&: Please try to react to what people INTEND,

It's to have fun and to use to generate RP.

Yes, SIC is in English because we speak & write English (some version) as a group, & this game is in English.

That in mind, throwing in some rhymes and even a few foreign language words and mini phrases is fine, just not whole long thoughts and conversations in other languahes because it is translated (for characters). (This part on other languages is from before.)

This kind of falls in with rhyming or people of other languages, but English is one hell of a mutt language and many foreign words have made their way into the English language itself, and would not be translated into their full French, Latin, Italian, even Japanese meanings (among others), so I can accept the rhymes and odd ways of thinking on SIC (people for the most part are /not/ truly educated IC'ly).

Word examples:

non sequitur, bologna, c'est la vie, ramen, sake, baka, manga, a cappella, a la, a la carte, a la mode, double entendre, artiste, capisci (kapeesh), bona fide, et cetera, et cetera, etc.

(For Yul Brynner fans. I had to throw in some levity.)

Even alias (that's a Latin word) is used.

So, RP & have fun with it. Pwety pwety Pwaeeze. *wink*

By thecraftydragon at Dec 8, 2015 2:14 AM

It's late. I hope that made sense.

By thecraftydragon at Dec 8, 2015 2:15 AM

Hey All -

Just your friendly neighborhood moderator here. I want to point you all to these topics which have already discussed these topics at length, with admin weighing in. I believe, for the most part, this topic's main issue is addressed in sic-and-languages.

Keep the site wide search in mind and review old topics. Nothing wrong with opening an old topic for new discussion if you've got more to add or want further drill down on a topic from a GM.

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/theme/sic-and-languages-139/

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/theme/fact--lol-is-a-word.-140/

-- S

By Slither at Dec 8, 2015 6:46 PM

Hey All -

Just your friendly neighborhood moderator here. I want to point you all to these topics which have already discussed these topics at length, with admin weighing in. I believe, for the most part, this topic's main issue is addressed in sic-and-languages.

Keep the site wide search in mind and review old topics. Nothing wrong with opening an old topic for new discussion if you've got more to add or want further drill down on a topic from a GM.

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/theme/sic-and-languages-139/

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/theme/fact--lol-is-a-word.-140/

-- S

By Slither at Dec 8, 2015 6:46 PM

The topics in this thread aren't related to the topics in either of those, though.

That said, Crafty's response is more on-topic in the SIC and Languages thread.

'English being a bastard language' really has nothing to do with my query. A lot of our slang uses loan words as it is, and naturally our slang ends up on the SIC. And this is fine; it's less of a case that SIC must be pure English and more to do with the intent being clear (as discussed in SIC and Languages, not what's being addressed here).

My query was purely related to the corrupting of SIC messages by using entirely phonetic language. The reason for this was to know whether we should be doing this at all (if not, an OOC line has to be drawn, IC consequences aren't warranted). As Linekin pointed out, we are free to react to this ICly - by treating this corruption as an actual corruption of their thought essence. I wasn't sure if this was an appropriate way to interpret it, which is why I asked for input.

Cheers.

By Euclid at Dec 8, 2015 6:59 PM

The whole 'seeking a stance' element to the original post is what stimulated me to address this whole notion that there are too many players who are too ready to focus on what they perceive as other people's inadequate gameplay and then make it their business to call them on it, interrupting the game, the RP, and the flow. It spills into xgame or xooc. It's unforgiving and unsporting. I really want people to let go of this 'you're doing it wrong' attitude and just react ICly to what YOU KNOW as a player the other person intended with their roleplay.

Maybe I'm the one who gave the bad example. Maybe I helped to create this culture with my advice in other threads to help each other learn not to play like it's a 40-person world, not to play like it's 2015 with the real-life pop-culture references in the game world, not to play like it's a chatroom instead of a roleplaying game.

All I know is I'm very tired of this. It gets worse all the time. I don't remember any of this from when I was a new player. There were fewer players then, but all this hypercorrection never used to happen.

I'm not reacting to you, Euclid, and blaming you for any of this unsporting behavior. I'm just reacting to the fact that this game community is turning into one where people feel like court briefs and points of clarification need to be requested. I KNOW that the 'stances' which admins express in this thread will be referred to in the future by some ruleslawyer who would otherwise try to find a way to work it into their "tutoring" of the unfortunate imperfect player who they perceive as making a faux-pas.

By Linekin at Dec 8, 2015 7:19 PM

I think what Linekin is trying to say is:

No, seriously. He's got a valid point, and I can be as guilty as any other on particularly bad days. So, let's lighten it up and go back to having fun. At least I'm going to commit myself to that now.

By ShinMojo at Dec 8, 2015 7:39 PM

Omg...

Cheech and Chong.

By thecraftydragon at Dec 10, 2015 2:06 AM

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Mutilated English on the SIC? Could I get a stance on this?

Mutilated English on the SIC?
Could I get a stance on this?