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Destigmatize Service Mixers

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This came up a lot in the Hab-X ideas thread, but Storm correctly pointed out it deserves its own conversation.

I think the IC stigma on service mixers is problematic small-worlding. The levs are supposed to be packed full of Red residents going to work service jobs on Gold, but instead my perception is that the handful of PCs who work in service jobs are treated by the Mix as if they are basically just corpies.

This is a theme situation -- just like other kinds of meta smallworlding -- where I think more staff intervention could be helpful. It may be that staff is already using thoughts and xhelps to address some of these issues, but in addition to thoughts and xhelp I might propose:

1. Powerful NPCs in Red who are invested in the status quo (like the gang kings) calling people out for rampant anti-servie bias. "Shit, these motherfuckers are who get King Snail his flash. Beating up on them mean I don't see my my motherfucking tolls!"

2. SIC chatter making it clear that service mixers are a huge throng of people on Red.

3. The occasional "watch your step" puppet, like when staff puppet a shroud to be a badass instead of a random "Don't bother me" tourist.

I'm not saying that there needs to be a sudden flood of these things, but I've observed several IC conversations in the last few weeks where PCs are discouraged from being service mixers unless their plan is to move off Red and become corporate. That's certainly one reason to become a service mixer, but I don't think that's reflective of the browser servie NPC population and I think it really limits opportunities for organic plot to develop when there are people who work topside but remain in Mix society.

By Pavane at Nov 10, 2020 4:22 PM
Help Class would be a good one for people to check out. reading that is preeeetty solid written version of our intent behind service-mixers.

I view servies the way one might view the dude trying to escape the hood. Your fellow hoodrats may not support you in that endeavor. They may try to keep you down. They may also try to use your position to further their own goals.

By Mench at Nov 10, 2020 4:36 PM
Yeah, I think help class also reflects what I understand theme to be. I started this thread to suggest that I think -- just like in some other places like shrouds or "there aren't any Snakes" or whatever -- this is a place where I think some admin pushing could help fight back against what seems like some smallworlding where PC service mixers are concerned.
By Pavane at Nov 10, 2020 5:07 PM
I don't really understand this sentiment. It may be a common thing that makes up a large subset of the Mixer population.

But for as long as the Mix is the bottom rung, they should naturally have distaste or hate for those rising above them.

Service Mixers probably need less love, and more abuse in the Mix, specifically If you can't find a way to use their higher access to the inside of Corporations to your own advantage, why shouldn't you abuse them to make your miserable malingering Mixer ass feel better? :D

By Andromeda at Nov 11, 2020 5:20 PM
Service mixers are not minority collaborators who can be singled out for persecution in any practical sense, service mixers are mixers.

They represent tens of millions of Mixers and are described as being a requisite part of every single functioning piece of Withmore society. Persecuting them wholecloth as some misdirected rebellion against corporate society is as backwards and nonsensical as persecuting the working class because one despises the rich.

Player characters represent the top %1 of privileged characters in the Mix, in virtually every case. As far as the class-warfare minded bottom rung is concerned, all player characters are the enemy if we started purity testing.

In a practical sense, this kind of persecution was tried and it went nowhere. All the good jobs got passes, and all the now 'bad' jobs got ignored except as pre-corporate holding areas. Even for players that want to treat the game like a PvP match, service jobs are necessary to provide enough resources to the Mix for any actual conflict against topside to occur.

Persecuting mixers to spite corporate characters is like cutting off the nose to spite the body politic. You need them. They are weapons. Use them.

By 0x1mm at Nov 11, 2020 6:01 PM
Andromeda, I think your position is about changing the description in "help social class." Mine is that taking "help social class" as the state of theme, I think staff should consider using some of its levers more actively to remind us what theme is.
By Pavane at Nov 11, 2020 7:22 PM
Imagine you're a hood rat and your cousin's started throwing on a white shirt and black tie to work a catering job serving up chicken piccata at weddings.

Do you realize your cousin is trying to do something other than gang bang and make some legal flash? Yes.

Do you think your cousin = the wedding party? No.

By Crooknose at Nov 11, 2020 11:35 PM
Put another way, imagine you're a serf in some medieval town. You and all the other serfs hate the local fucking lord cause the guy sucks.

Some of the serfs work in the castle and have it a little better than you. They're still treated like furniture by the nobles, but they don't have a leaky roof over their head. When you storm the castle in your bloody rebellion, are you going to kill all the servants working there because you think they're collaborators? I mean maybe you do, cause you're a zealous motherfucker. But also, maybe you realize they're just trying to survive and you're like, yeah, they're not really the enemy.

By Crooknose at Nov 11, 2020 11:39 PM
This thread is a good example of talking about a big part of the game, without specifically referencing any IC information--and with no one being rude to anyone else. I wanted to call that out and thank the folx involved.
By Slither at Nov 18, 2020 7:19 AM
I think all the examples of realization that the service mixers are just like you and trying to get ahead any way they can and aren't really the enemy are from the perspective of a slice of life style of roleplay.

I can understand and empathize with that desire, but that feels counter intuitive to a game that actively encourages underhandedness, betrayal, deceit, and stepping over the bodies of your peers, co-workers, or strangers to get ahead yourself.

Given that seems to be the marketing around the website and the way people talk about Sindome to hype it up, I am far more inclined to believe that if a Service Mixer is vulnerable to those things, there should be no staff push to try to encourage people to treat them as equals to Mixers.

This feels like one of those "The community will decide" moments, with their individual RP choices, how to treat service mixer players, while simultaneously not choosing to expand those RP choices to the NPC portion of those service mixers.

I haven't had as much time to play as I'd like recently because of a project I am working on, but I still think this is likely a non-issue and it's best left for individuals to handle with their own individual of group-think choices.

It's a dog eat dog world out there, and it'd be more confusing if the staff had to interject and say "Just don't eat these dogs, if you're this breed of dog."

By Andromeda at Nov 18, 2020 1:21 PM
Given that seems to be the marketing around the website and the way people talk about Sindome to hype it up, I am far more inclined to believe that if a Service Mixer is vulnerable to those things, there should be no staff push to try to encourage people to treat them as equals to Mixers.

I haven't had as much time to play as I'd like recently because of a project I am working on, but I still think this is likely a non-issue and it's best left for individuals to handle with their own individual of group-think choices.

These are contradictory statements, advocating for a broader player position on one hand and saying individuals should decide on their based on their own context.

No one has ever pushed back on philosophical against anyone going after a service mixer while being a mixer themselves. Mixer vs Mixer conflict is far more at the heart of most plots than Mixer vs Corporate. Staff have never discouraged this either.

The opposite has been the issue, with players going to the boards to architect conflict against certain jobs wholecloth rather than doing it IC based on the context.

The staff have been really clear on this divide since it went in three years ago. Service mixers are mixers and that is staff enforced to divide service from corporate.

There's no reason any character can't do something different, but if someone is posting on the boards advocating for a certain viewpoint to be adopted by other players OOC, then they're open to rebuttal in the same context.

By 0x1mm at Nov 18, 2020 1:37 PM
game that actively encourages underhandedness, betrayal, deceit, and stepping over the bodies of your peers, co-workers, or strangers to get ahead yourself.

Sure. If there's a good profitable reason to go after anyone, no matter what their station or caste, do it, it's justified.

This is about making people's lives hell for no good reason other than being a servie. Find a legit IC motivation to do so.

Hell, trick them into giving you one. But not if you can't capitalize on it. Like you said - you're trying to get ahead.

By beandip at Nov 18, 2020 1:43 PM
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