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Early game dodge is useless

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I am no vet in this game, but it's hard to not see how the mechanics work, more or less by just playing. And as far as I can tell, unless your dodge + relevant skills are vastly superior to the other player, you may as well have it at 0. Which afaik I see a lot of immies rolling, putting the points everywhere else, and then having no dodge at all - as a result owning in combat.

While I can be wrong, I don't think I am, at least not by far, did enough fights ICly with people who just ICly scream their stats/skills at you. As a newbie, I wanted to keep my attack and dodge skills even, but so far I only see this as just a massive blunder and waste of early game ue and goes against all common sense.And that just sucks when you build a character, thinking that this is the way to go, just to then be smacked by mechanics which all advanced players already know in and out and can own you right almost out of the gate. Not because of IC reasons, but just knowing the OOC mechanics better.

Can we make it more open so the new players can make better decisions?

By Marleen at Aug 9, 2019 3:26 AM
Whilst I can definitely understand your frustration with this situation, this frustration is borne from the fact you are making a number of incorrect assumptions as to how skills and stats work and how other players may or may not have applied their UE. There are alot of factors that determine how combat works in the game.

We have no plans to, and nor will we while I'm on staff reveal the idiosyncracies of combat from a code point of view, it just won't happen, especially not to allow you to min-max your character.

What I can say however is, after reviewing the situation that the system is operating as I would expect it to. I can only recommend possibly finding an IC mentor to help your character. Use the experience as a roleplay driver.

--Glitch

By Glitch at Aug 9, 2019 3:38 AM
I am aware that my assumptions are incorrect, but not in the way when I call early game dodge useless. If I put all that UE into str/tough/agi and weapon skills, it would make for a lot more feared combatant, while my common sense suggests that dodge would progressively reduce the damage, up to completely negate it. That's how generally it works in most games, is what I imagine most players expect.

And yes, find IC trainer is a valid answer. Problem is that old player don't need that, they just know from previous characters. And you don't really need to ICly excuse building the character the right way. That puts new players are pretty massive disadvantage mechanics ways, ignore the one from knowing the game as a whole.

By Marleen at Aug 9, 2019 3:49 AM
a couple points here:

"dodge is completely useless" - this statement is actually asinine so i will only dignify it with this one liner about how ridiculous you sound.

"dual wielding melee weapons is a growing problem" - considering most combat characters use some type of firearm where dual wielding would not be very effective, again, incorrect

"certain weapons have intuitive stat weightings" - not sure what the problem is with that.

what marleen is saying goes back to the age old question of whether admin should reveal more info about certain builds and how to go about statting up a combat character. whether you are for or against that (spoiler alert, it's not gonna happen), the only way to know how to build your character for now is trial and error

you got your ass kicked. everyone's been through it, especially combat characters. try not to dwell too much on what stats/skills you -think- your enemy might have. get training advice from veteran PC's, if your character is friends with any, failing that, you could also get advice from NPC's, if your character's in a faction.

By Roycethe59 at Aug 9, 2019 6:36 AM
Pro tip; invest all of your ue in charisma and charm your attacker away
By Grizzly666 at Aug 9, 2019 6:49 AM
I want to third this whole IC mentoring and experimentation thing. I had a character before becoming a GM (surprise!). Combat oriented. I was uncertain how to build them. So I asked two different NPCs on four separate occasions in addition to a -lot- of sparring, fighting and getting advice from PC mentors and friends. Based on all that plus what you can find in help files and the archetype pages I worked out a plan for my character's development. A very specific plan.

Then I became a GM and started picking more up as I learned from other staff and helped other PCs and worked on bugs and tested new features. And I am still learning more. But guess what? None of what I learned as a GM would have changed the plans I had had for that character. What I had gained via IC mentors and experimentation and -doing-, it was really, really solid for that build.

The only thing I got was validation (though only to some extent as there is still a lot I don't know). And I just want to post this to validate for all of you that if you really put effort and RP into seeking IC mentors and experimenting and doing - you will end up with a pretty good build.

By Mobius at Aug 9, 2019 6:55 AM
Regarding the utility of some skills/stats/gear/builds... We do our best to balance things and it will never be perfect. But the effort is made.

Just keep in mind that combat in Sindome is like paper, rock scissors with a lot of complications thrown in. I can't go into details as you should get these ICly but just about every skill/stat/item/build will shine in the right circumstances.

Over time you and your character will start to get a feel for what circumstances favor which things and, if your character is smart enough (looking at you who think tanking INT is cool), you should start trying to control those circumstances as much as you can (but if you tanked INT, please respect your choice and RP it).

As a side note, We've had a few characters take Grizzly's advice on Charisma builds and do really well with that. Never had to fight because they had plenty of capable fighters wiling to die for them. It can be done.

By Mobius at Aug 9, 2019 7:02 AM
As an additional note to this post, you are not rolling your stats or skills against the system. They are rolled against your opponent. Dodge is just as useful as a new player as it is as an old player, it's the opponents that make it break your roll.

There is no minimum or maximum skill gate before most if not all combat stats are effective. It's purely situational as relates to your opponents, your weapons, their weapons, etc.

By Slither at Aug 9, 2019 1:32 PM
This is just...vastly...nah. Nope. Not true. At all. Dodge is absolutely useful. Fuck, I learned recently without your """early game dodge""" that you can't even run from a park rat. It is absolutely good.
By Seir at Aug 9, 2019 10:01 PM
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