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Material and You
Just so we are all on the same page...

As far as the game and the mechanics of the game are concerened... Material is for RP -only-. If you make a medical bag or a platinum necklace or whatever... and you try to sell it to an RP vendor or what not (or an admin), it will be considered fake/not real/no real value.

Jewelry is a perfect example... diamonds, gold, silver, platinum... you make something out of that that is material and it will be considered as fake.

So feel free to make stuff... if you want somethnig that you want to have value on, talk to the admin or find a tailor (if we don't have any right now then we can handle it adminside) and then pay them the money and we can make it for you.

I am thinking of coding a new system where we remove material from the game and only tailors have access to it. If you want something made (like a medic bag) you have to find someone to buy it for ya and then the admin can make it.

Could be fun. :)

We'll see, just wanted everyone to be on the same page with this. We can't just let people make things that are worth 500k.

Aww I can't make a Vanity Diamond and sell it for 99k...
Your breakin my balls Wren...hehe
I think removing material from the game would suck. There are plenty of circumstances in which material is important.

You can't go buy an old rag from a store, for instance, nor do you want to have a tailor 'make' it... (on a side note, for clarity, ICly what tailors actually do... do they have sewing kits? Magic powers? It's the age of absolute and total industrial mass production, right?) Anyway, if I want to desc. a piece of material as a rag, put it over my face or my neck to hide something, I think I should be able to without other players, GMs, etc., etc.

Moving on to more complicated items of clothing. If material gets pulled a whole bunch of alternative, ICly available clothing lines need to appear. There's too much uniformity, as is, at the moment in my opinion.

I think material should be kept, and even allowed to give players the chance to create custom pieces that enhance RP in circumstances where generic or GM provided pieces are either too obscure to support, or just aren't available.

However, I am always pissed when I find a "hooded sweatshirt" at the market only to appraise it and find it is "A pile of material ready to be made into clothing."

Common, don't just @name the material, actually go through and change all the goddamn @messages please? Plus, hooded sweatshirts are already in game, so make it different somehow...

Coded material + "tailors" monopoly... doesn't sound too good to me. Players just need to self-regulate more, it sounds like. Plus regardless, I think the fact that armor is in place erases the meaning of anybody making a fake Xo5 competitor.

Oh, please someone explain 'tailoring' ... it gives me images of an old woman with a spindle for some reason.


I just noticed the dates of the above posts...hopefully this discussion is still relevant.

(Edited by BuddhaBrand at 10:26 am on Sep. 1, 2008)

Way back before even this thread was relevant I had some plans laid down for the material system to enrich it and apply some economic value to it... brief note form from memory if it's useful to anyone.

Material is an abstract form, as it is now. Obviously it's impractical for game purposes to create thousands/millions of different types of material, essentially it's a tool to give players the ability to create diverse RP fluff and clothing.

It would however be possible to create a small range of materials with different preset costs which would remain constant and could be evaluated with inspect/examine, tweaked by a skill check to determine accuracy.

So, a player could buy a unit of 500,000 chyen material, describe it as an incredibly exclusive designer suit made with incredibly rare materials and hand woven by recluse monks on a remote moon base.

Another player could buy a unit of 10 chyen material and give it exactly the same description. To the untrained eye or with a fleeting glance they're both wearing a "nice suit", but with a skill check we can tell that one is the genuine expensive designer article and the other is a mass produced cheap sweatshop knock-off.

Optionally, add in a value modifier for tailor characters. While all players can describe and mould material, the value is always locked to the material base value. When a tailor does his thing, the material gets a skill check based value modifier which adds to the base material value. (Value modifier resets whenever materials are edited, so you either take it to a tailor for adjustments or you get your sewing kit out and botch it.)

Also optionally, require one unit of material per body location covered as a basic abstract system for amount of material required. This would have the added advantage of giving some weight varience (a piece covering 5 locations would weigh 5 times more than a hat covering one.)

Obviously not an accurate system, but I figured it having a decent balance between a little realism and keeping material out there for everyone to use.

Long post, old ideas. *shrug* Might be trash, but figured I'd dust it off and toss it out.

(Edited by Rastus2 at 4:15 pm on Sep. 1, 2008)

Referring back to Wren's initial post, this isn't just limited to clothing. As Wren said, anything of value currently made with material (in 2006, may have changed since then?) is considered fake.

Using this system you could differentiate between a "diamond" made from 10 chyen material (cheap cut glass trinket) to a diamond made with 500,000 chyen material (YOINK! *runs for it*).

As an RP tool it lets players buy, trade and create RP items of actual value.

I love buying dynafiber materials in-game and using them to make RP items. Tailors are -okay- but here's my gripe...if we only have a 30 person playerbase (e.x.) why waste one on a tailor? The most they can ever hope to be is a corporate money-maker, but how, by selling to the other 29 people? Meh. So they get by, making request items and maybe selling to some of the clothing stores. That's still not really enough flash to make lots of plots and be super snobby famous, so where's the fun? Now player resorts to making SOME clothing, a few requests, but primarily being a slummy mixer and getting sidetracked from tailoring by drug addictions, gun fights, and seduction.

Why the hell do we have the tailor skill? So that a generic mixer can say HAY I can make other generic mixer some shoes?

I'd rather that generic mixers just buy a material and edit it on their own time. Is it going to get abused? Maybe. Zero resale value is fine by me.

Zero resale + not going to use it as an RP tool = not going to make some BS item that will add to the existing ocean of IC items

Zero resale + open editing = going to get used as an RP tool

...damn I am really over-posting today. Happy to get my Wifi back.

open editing = bloat. This is why I axed it to begin with.

I continually scrap meer kilobytes from everything purely so I don't have to impose a hard cap on the number of items you each can own. Player editable material is still the largest single collection of data and I've recently considered dropping the tease messages entirely or reducing them from 3 messages (you, me and everyone else) to 1 (pose parsed) compound message. This would help, but not as much as we need.

There is NO tailoring skill, it falls under artistry, which is used by a number of other artistic endeavours. So, why would I get rid of this skill?

Because for the most part, you can't fail.  You don't even really need to pump anything into artistry to go find some 'material' and make that shiny pair of leather pants that make your ass say 'POW'.  That's all determined by the player...I have none and yes, I have fixed a pronoun or two which technically is cheating yeah?  Can't just go hackin a car's security system when your secure-tech is at -able- so...yeah.  And a possible solution, and more to do for our 'tailors', we got weapon upgrades, why can't I go to the tailor and get armor customization?  With a high enough level in 'tailoring/artestry' you think a person could figure out how to lighten or fasten more kevlar to somethin in a perty manner.  Not to make that uber, unbreakeable, unfair piece of gear, but so we all feel special, rather than every mixer either having ProTek or Du-wear across their chests.  Redescribe ;)  Let that happen.
Like Johnny said, the reason we can't have open editing of descriptions is because of bloat.  Items inherit properties from their parents, and if the property is changed it takes more space.

Artistry is applied to things like sculptures and paintings and stuff.

As for doing things without artistry, if we see a player doing that on a regular basis we would ask them to stop, because it would be un-ic.  Correcting a pronoun etc, it not cheating it's helping the game.  Same as using @typo.

Ah, sweet, not so much a cheater then.  Though I did try to go getting it fixed icly first, as though said article of clothing were too long.  Alas, that player got fed up and bolted after some uninteresting rp.