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Puppet queue and waiting on admins
How could we make it better for both sides.

Many people have accused me of being impatient and that I should just wait for the admins. I don't mind doing this, but I'd like to know how long they'll take to get round to it. If they are busy and will take a few hours then if players know this they'll avoid placing puppet requests etc.

People like me can come back on later when the admins have more time. If you want to grow the community, you'll get a lot of impatient players. I'm only complaining because I love this game and want to see it grow during European hours.

We are an all volunteer staff that works for free in our spare time, in between our actual lives, an actual jobs. We do not have set schedules. This is a labor of love.

I appreciate that you'd like this to be run more like a game that you've paid to play, where your character an what you want to do are given top priority, and you always know where you stand in line. However, that is simply not possible. And I'm rather upset by your implications that we are some how failing, but not doing this.

In my experience most puppet requests and gridmails are answered within about a week unless I'm asking for something that requires a higher-level staffer to handle it.

There are typically maybe 60 to 70 players online who all need things and only a handful of staffers who have many, many other duties.

Try to grab the NPC you need. If you don't get a response within five minutes, make a puppet request and go RP.

"We are an all volunteer staff that works for free in our spare time, in between our actual lives, an actual jobs. We do not have set schedules. This is a labor of love.

I appreciate that you'd like this to be run more like a game that you've paid to play, where your character an what you want to do are given top priority, and you always know where you stand in line. However, that is simply not possible. And I'm rather upset by your implications that we are some how failing, but not doing this."

I'm very sorry to have come across this way, I never thought you were "failing", and the quality of the game shows through as a labor of love. There are so many interesting details and such. I don't want to be given top priority, I just want to know how far back in the queue I am.

Alternatively maybe recruit some very low level staffers to puppet or do some other duties. I don't know many a certain some impatient no-lifer could be useful (Me). Although I don't think its a shortage of volunteers, I understand you can't let anyone start puppeting darcy or coletti without trusting them or at least testing their RPing skills/knowledge of the game/etc.

What interests me is the economy and how that drives RP, you need people to produce goods and fixers to sell them. Runners can distribute goods, the money all goes into purchasing gear that equip rival factions that creates more conflict. You could have drug dealers fighting over turf, you could pay to have a loudmouth spilling corp secrets killed.

Perhaps I've got it all wrong. Problem is I'm too interested in the features of the game rather than the RP. I don't find chatting about inane things in the pub or on the SIC interesting. I like to feel like I'm advancing and tend to talk business too much on my chars.

I'm gonna post this before it gets any longer, Also Vera, I hear that a lot, I know about @who so I can see how the admins (some of which aren't puppetmasters or gms and might be just bug fixing) and I can see how the admins are crushed under the sheer weight of player requests.

Nothing says you have to engage in idle chit-chat. Playing a character that is very focused on business is fine. But it's important, in my opinion, to realize that Sindome is a Roleplaying game. It's not a numbers game. There are a lot of awesome mechanics but they are all meant to be means of supporting RP.

So have your character be an all business kind of person who avoids or even disdains idle chat. That's fine. And have them be eager to get things done, working the economy. Have them try and do all or some those awesome things you mentioned (producing, fixing, running, purchasing, playing factions, etc...).

But do it all from your characters perspective. And when you need to, submit a puppet-request. But the system here works. It's just using a different paradigm than what you suggest. Honestly it's a better one. One that lets people play when they have time and not have to play on a schedule.

I've had a character in a position in which I needed to "make appointments" with other players. It is a nightmare. Despite their best intentions players are not always reliable. They have lives. They miss appointments. Things happen to their characters. They cut things close. And that's assuming that one side of the equation is perfectly reliable which is seldom the case (and it's not anyone's fault).

The system, as it's designed, does a great job of connecting GM and player in a fair and dynamic way and it does so quite rapidly considering the demand. The trap you need to avoid falling into is thinking that now that you've submitted a puppet-request, you just have to wait about and do nothing. Instead, submit the request then think about what else you can do do further your goals and do those other things.

It's not always easy or even possible but with practice you'll be able to keep productive even while waiting a few days for a GM to get back to you. Also try and think about how you'd deal with it in RL.

I want to start a business. To do so I need to get a license, secure product, rent space, hire employees. Maybe I try and contact the license people but they're busy and will have to get back to me. Do I just sit and wait or do I start perusing another thread? Maybe work on the supplier piece!

Just my thoughts - not the final word on how things are or should be!

"I'm very sorry to have come across this way, I never thought you were "failing", and the quality of the game shows through as a labor of love. There are so many interesting details and such. I don't want to be given top priority, I just want to know how far back in the queue I am."

What I'm trying to explain is that it's impossible to tell you. How can we codify something as fluid as puppet request? I didn't really want to do a deep dive into why it's not possible but I will.

Let's imagine 5 people have open puppet requests. You are the first in 'line'. Meaning you have the oldest request. You should be next in line right? Wrong.

1. Your request is open ended. You want to speak with an NPC about a thing that may or may not be related to a plot, your job, or information you are looking for.

2. There are 3 GMs on. None of them are running the plot, know about your job, or have the information you are looking for. The GM that does, is not online. The GMs online reach out to that other GM who is not online and ask for information on how to handle the request.

2A. The GM that isn't online is not around.

2B. The GM that isn't online says they want to handle it themselves.

You are first in line, but your puppet request cannot currently be handled. Should we stop all puppeting because we can't handle your request? You are first in line after all.

No, of course not. That's why we don't tell you where you are in line. We don't need people xhelping asking how come other people are getting puppets fullfilled when they are first in line and haven't had theirs done.

3. The information you want or the job your want to talk about or the plot you are involved with hasn't progressed to the point where we can handle the request.

4. Another player needs to be online before we can handle your request.

5. Any number of other reasons why telling you that yours is the next puppet we will handle, is not a viable solution.

We will get to your puppet, when we get to your puppet. That's just the way it is. There is not a better solution that reduces time on our end, increasing information on your end, and also doesn't give people information that they may incorrectly assume to be 100% true and there for, cause them to get upset when it proves false or takes longer than the arbitrary amount they have in their head for an acceptable amount of time to wait.

"Alternatively maybe recruit some very low level staffers to puppet or do some other duties. I don't know many a certain some impatient no-lifer could be useful (Me). Although I don't think its a shortage of volunteers, I understand you can't let anyone start puppeting darcy or coletti without trusting them or at least testing their RPing skills/knowledge of the game/etc."

I would really like it if you spent some time reviewing the numerous BGBB posts that already cover all of this before starting new topics and making me, and others reiterate things that have already been covered in depth :(

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/anything-really/new-support-gm-position--823/

"What interests me is the economy and how that drives RP, you need people to produce goods and fixers to sell them. Runners can distribute goods, the money all goes into purchasing gear that equip rival factions that creates more conflict. You could have drug dealers fighting over turf, you could pay to have a loudmouth spilling corp secrets killed."

This has nothing to do with puppets or the admin. Nothing you just described requires any admin assistance at all. The economy is in the hands of the players for the most part. Players can create drugs, sell them, etc. As they can for numerous other things in the game! You've got to spend some time in the game before you can do more than scratch the surface of what's going on. Layers upon layers. Like an onion. You need to RP to peel that onion back. Part of the way you get people to know you and trust you, is by chatting in bars and making friends and bonding.

"Perhaps I've got it all wrong. Problem is I'm too interested in the features of the game rather than the RP. I don't find chatting about inane things in the pub or on the SIC interesting. I like to feel like I'm advancing and tend to talk business too much on my chars."

This is a roleplay enforced game. Code and features are just icing on the cake.

Grey0 makes an excellent point about not waiting around for puppet requests, and continuing to RP. I liked it so much that every single @request-puppet made now ends with this in bright red:

"Please note, that making a puppet request does not mean you should sit around and wait for a response. Continue your roleplay, continue to move your plots and plans forward in other ways. Be creative. Tell an interesting story!"

I would really like it if you spent some time reviewing the numerous BGBB posts that already cover all of this before starting new topics and making me, and others reiterate things that have already been covered in depth :(

I've read a lot of posts, even sneaky ones trying work out how certain mechanics work behind the scenes. Like the hand to hand post about adding martial art styles. I've asked on game help, emailed help@sindome.org and done a few xhelp.

On the mud connector it says you are looking for builders/coders, I don't know how true that is. I'd be happy to be a low-level gm, especially if my apartment was free. We need more GMs so I'll probably bump (or even pin) that post every few days even if I had already applied.

What annoys me is that @request-puppet doesn't have a field that "forces" people to type in their SIC/Gridphone, but people keep complaining on game-help that people haven't added a way of contacting them.

Attached is a picture of what a user sees when the request puppet.

This is is a roleplay enforced mud

Yea I'm trying to get my head around D&D (tabletop) and RPing in general as a form of gaming. I understand inane things are going to crop up in conversation, I just want to know how to pull at some threads.

I'll add a lot more in future....

We can't force a field on people that isn't required.

There are times people need to request a puppet and it's related to their job, or to an NPC that they deal with on a regular basis that they don't need to leave contact information for.

People not including contact information in puppet requests that require them is an oversight on their part and something they need to learn to do, not something we should force everyone to do on every request, just because some folks don't.

Also, the command specifically states, in all caps:

"MAKE SURE THE DETAILS YOU INCLUDE MENTION HOW YOU TRIED TO CONTACT THE NPC, AND WHAT INFORMATION YOU LEFT THEM REGARDING HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU!."

"I've read a lot of posts, even sneaky ones trying work out how certain mechanics work behind the scenes. Like the hand to hand post about adding martial art styles. I've asked on game help, emailed help@sindome.org and done a few xhelp. "

Okay, but your post above says we should think about recruiting low level GMs, and that's exactly what the post I linked to when i said 'please read the rest of the forums' was about. You're suggesting we do stuff we already do, ya know?

Despite the all caps "MAKE SURE YOU" people are still forgetting to do this, could the command pull SIC/character info from the player who made the request? If that's not possible due to whatever reason maybe forcing players to type their SIC/Gridmail/Phone into every request wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Also, I know the feeling of when people tell you to do things you're already doing, its annoying as fuck. However, if you want to get some fresh blood into GMs then maybe you need to make it more obvious. As I said I'll do my bit and bump the post, the only issue I have with GMing is I'm not sure I can commit to 3 months. But I'll give it a shot.

As far as I understand it, the information provided in the @request-puppet should match what you told the NPC. So automatically populating information like SIC alias, Grindmail and phone numbers would kind of be inappropriate - assuming that it is even reasonable to do so.

I have never had a problem with this as when I submit a puppet request I simply copy over exactly what my character said to the NPC after indicating where/how my character initiated contact. As my character always mentioned how he can be reached to the NPC, the information gets carried over.

The only time when a character might not tell the NPC how to reach them is if they forgot (and in this case it makes sense that the NPC will have trouble responding) or if they have a standing relationship with the NPC and could reasonable expect the NPC to already have that information (in which cast the player should still include it in the request).

All the same, I wouldn't be against prompts maybe. How and where did you contact the NPC? What did you say to them? What contact information did you provide them? At the same time, there might be a good reason why Staff has implemented the features as they have!

Oh of course, I'm not doubting staffs ability, and there may be a good reason, but maybe its something they didn't think of? I can bring a fresh approach to this!

You've never had a problem because you're an experienced player, new players forget to do things, perhaps if NPCs could remember what you said to them in some log that would be awesome. Like instead of doing a puppet request you could just walk up to an NPC, talk to them and leave your SIC/phone/grid with them.

I'd LOVE to script some more into NPCs, make them more automated. Imagine if you could apply to jobs without needing an admin to puppet!

Imagine if NPCs could remember stuff, e.g. a ganger addict that the player gave some marcy to, starts following the player a little asking for some more.