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@holdback

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Hmm, I think it would be good for rp if you could hold back in combat.  Say you are really kick ass but you don't want to kill a person, just give them a little pain.
By Hirononbu at Feb 3, 2004, 10:00 PM | 0
Ummm … @fatal?
By Johnny at Feb 3, 2004, 10:15 PM | 0
Cept sometimes even when @fatal is off you can kill people.  And I'm also talking about maybe acting like you aren't very good at fighting, and not completely kicking the other person's ass.
By Hirononbu at Feb 3, 2004, 10:20 PM | 0
Ok, I understand what your saying. Wonder what people think.
By Johnny at Feb 3, 2004, 10:23 PM | 0
So you're saying like.. Less damage for hits and perhaps even something like a lowering of stats / skills in the rolls so that it looks like you're weaker?

It's not a bad idea, I can think of some good uses for it.

By Damus at Feb 3, 2004, 10:26 PM | 0
Agreed, the best fighters usually adjust their fighting style when fighting people who are obviously of a lower skill level, espically if there are alot of people watching, so they don't reveal their full potental unless they have to.
By Jotun at Feb 4, 2004, 7:04 AM | 0
I like the idea, seems themely and IC.  I wonder how it would work? Would there be a @holdback scale? Decreasing your level in combative skills? Or would be a static command taking off a given amount? I'd like to see it with a scale ideally.
By allandra at Feb 4, 2004, 9:23 AM | 0
Yeah, like @holdback 70 to only use 70 % of your full potential or something.
By Hirononbu at Feb 4, 2004, 9:53 AM | 0
Yep..yep…that's a pretty good idea. I like that last way:

@holdback 70 for 70% effectiveness.

By Sidd at Feb 4, 2004, 9:55 AM | 0
maybe like @holdback 70 strength, or @holdback 70 brawl, or @holdback 70 melee.    then type just @ holdback to see a list of your current 'holdbacks' if you will.  and @holdback none to cancel all….

just a thought.

By Jotun at Feb 4, 2004, 9:57 AM | 0
that's getting a little extreme, maybe just a @holdback that bvlankets -all- combatice stats/skills. AGL, STR, brawling, Martial Arts, weapon skills, Dodge.  IT would lower them all, maybe instead of @holdback 70  using 70% of the skill, @holdback 30 would -decrease- your skills by that amount..I'm not sure which would be easier to code.
By allandra at Feb 4, 2004, 10:02 AM | 0
I think it would be useful for more things besides combat. I could see it being used for any skill check where the character is knowingly using the skill.

IE, @holdback 30 wouldn't apply a 30% penalty to your ability to notice sneaking people because that is a passively enhanced sense.

Would it automatically go back to full 100% when your life gets low or you otherwise (insert evil admin laugh) go into fight-or-flight mode.

I can picture the combat types in their cube now. One guy is training the other, so he puts a pretty heavy holdback on. The 'weaker guy' is just beating to death on the tougher one to no avail, so he walks away from his screen to grab a drink, pet the dog, whatever. Then the 'weaker guy' turns his @holdback off, which ofcourse, the 'stronger guy' didn't know about. Weaker guy kills the idle stronger guy, loots him and leaves.

Ofcourse, it is in my nature to hunt for the abuse points.

By Johnny at Feb 4, 2004, 10:26 AM | 0
obligatory Princess Bride reference:

[Fencing]
Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful.
Man in Black: Thank you; I've worked hard to become so.
Inigo Montoya: I admit it, you are better than I am.
Man in Black: Then why are you smiling?
Inigo Montoya: Because I know something you don't know.
Man in Black: And what is that?
Inigo Montoya: I… am not left-handed.
[Moves his sword to his right hand and gains an advantage]
Man in Black: You are amazing.
Inigo Montoya: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Man in Black: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Inigo Montoya: Tell me.
Man in Black: I'm not left-handed either.
[Moves his sword to his right hand and regains his advantage]

By Spaze at Feb 4, 2004, 12:24 PM | 0
Vizzini: A pleasure cruise? At night? Through eel-infested waters?! Inconceivable!
Inigo Montoya: You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

But seriously, folks:

It would be pretty straight forward to just implement this accross the board for all stat/skill checks… and it also would tie in pretty nicely to fatigue and endurance when that's implemented.

Would that work, realizing that it would affect all skill/stat based checks? Meaning that if you were in the Drome, and you had @holdback set to 70%, you'de hear (approximately) 70% less of the conversations (which your not watching), be 70% less likely to notice someone sneaking in... etc.

-Kevlar

By Kevlar at Feb 4, 2004, 2:42 PM | 0
So Johnny says ix-nay on the 'erception-pay oss-lay.

So we're back to just the combat related stats/skills.

Comments? Questions? Screams of agony? I like the idea… who here dosn't, and why?

-Kevlar

ps. Who thinks I should change my avatar icon to Vizzini's head from that picture? (Vizzini's the puny guy with the stupid looking grin on the bottom for all you depraved uncultured dickweeds who have never seen The Princess Bride.)

By Kevlar at Feb 4, 2004, 6:52 PM | 0
Two thumbs up.
By Spaze at Feb 4, 2004, 6:54 PM | 0
Do it Kevlar.  Do it now!
By Hirononbu at Feb 4, 2004, 6:56 PM | 0
I think its a great Idea.  It would be good for training, and not showing your full potential.  I agree that it shouldn't effect your percetion, and maybe not your endurance too.  Because no one can fake, being tough.. If you get hit, it hurts or it doesn't.. you can fake it hurting, but you can't make it hurt.  I guess you could make the argument that you aren't trying to block the blows as much, and you let your guard down.  But I think it would still make sense if it didn't effect how much damage you received.
-
Westley says "Now if we only had a holocost shroud."
hand shroud to Westley
You get out your grey shroud, and hand it to Westley.
-
Inigo says "My name is Inigo Montoya, You killed my father, prepare to die."
Inigo lurches towards you, ready to dish out some ass kicking.
hand inigo pvc
You get out your Red PVC shirt, and hand it to Inigo.
Inigo swings his Red PVC at you, it connects with bone crunching force.
By Nemisis at Feb 4, 2004, 7:14 PM | 0
I like the idea that it applies to skills only. I don't think its necessarily something that would apply to stats across the board. (I can think of two that may actually have the ability to be held back, INT and AGL… possibly STR.)

You can try and fake how fast/strong/smart you are... but as someone said above, you can't fake how tough you are.

As for skills, yea... definately... even non-combative ones, like Johnny said.

By Lucifer at Feb 5, 2004, 7:19 AM | 0
I like the idea of holding back skills, but some stats, definately not all, would have to be as well. Personaly, I also think it would makes things kinda interesting if every so often, you slipped and used your skills and such at full potential for a turn or two, or at least with less held back then you set it to, or maybe less even.

That's my 2 cents, do I get change, and where's my receipt?

By Lucien at Feb 5, 2004, 11:58 PM | 0
Wow, I skimmed this entire post, twice, and I don't think -one- person posted against it.  (Again i make use of search).

What happened with this?  I was about to post an idea about eye patches that reduce pcp, until I remembered this.  I -still- think this is a great idea, and would be extremly useful.

By Nemisis at Oct 12, 2004, 9:47 PM | 0
The following quote is from http://www.sindome.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=7&topic=622&start=10
Quote: from Iga on 12:13 pm on Oct. 4, 2004[br]I think one thing everyone should keep in mind with fatigue and combat is this:

ON Sindome there is no -real- grey area in levels of force use that is CODED.

So, if you are fighting, you are not fighting like a 'sparring' match when you train for boxing. You are fighting as hard, mean, and full on as you can. You are always trying to beat your opponent to DEATH. @fatal only stops you from that last minute killing blow, so you only beat the person -NEARLY- to death.

Would be one way to add this grey area?  I dunno.

By Aikao at Oct 12, 2004, 9:51 PM | 0
A better way, I think, would be to implement two @holdbacks - one for offensive and one for defensive. The offiensive one would cut your attack rolls and the defensive one your defense rolls - just because you don't want to beat someone to shit doesn't mean you won't do your best to avoid taking a pipe in the face.
By Murphy at Oct 16, 2004, 9:37 AM | 0
I think that endurance and skills shouldn't be affected. Because you can always just get punched in the stomach and even if it didn't hurt, say "OH, shit!" fold up and cough and moan with socials. It would be alot more code friendly too.

And with skills just act as if you have no idea what to do with a medpack etc.


(Edited by Starthereactor at 10:41 pm on Oct. 16, 2004)

(Edited by Starthereactor at 6:55 pm on Oct. 17, 2004)

By Starthereactor at Oct 16, 2004, 7:39 PM | 0
I like Murphys idea, two @holdbacks would be good.  You probably would have a really hard time -not- blocking a blow.. even if you tried not to.
By Nemisis at Oct 17, 2004, 2:13 PM | 0
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