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Aero vertical diagonal flight
fly upn/e/w/s fly downn/e/w/s and so on

This is a continuation of a bit of conversation on xooc.

Basically the proposition is that aero's should be able to move on the vertical diagonals. Basically banking ascents and descents.

It would turn fly commands that are pretty common, like

fly up up up up up up n n n n n up up n n e se

A route that to graph looks a bit like this.

a chained movement of 19 moves into.

fly upn upn upn upn upn upn upn upe se

A graph that probably looks a bit like this.

A chained movement of 9 moves.

The performance benefits could be rather decent as well, as flying fast tends to lag the server like a motherfucker, and less moves would probably mean less lag overall on the server side.

xooc I've never noticed the server lagging while flying. The only time I've ever gotten lag flying is if I'm being a twat and flying without turning off a certain tool. Flying as it is just now, is fine imo.
Flying is already powerful as is. I don't see any perceived need to make travel even faster with flight.
I would get into some facts and numbers.

But the ultimate fact is, that even a 50% boost to the already insanely fast speed of aero's is not really that insane considering the magnitudes of speed involved.

It's like comparing the time it takes to count to five, with the time it takes to count too three. Does it really matter in the long run that something that takes 15 seconds now takes 7?

When the margin is that small already you basically have to find it when it's stopped, landed, or hovering anyway.

And mench, I have legit had times when flying fast or when multiple aeros were flying around in different Dyna Rooms, where people have gotten into xooc to bitch about lag or movement going slow. It may be placebo, but Slither and Johnny have also said that aero flight(Specifically because of how the view code updates and it xmits to EVERY person that can see it every time it moves across an exit) as well as dynamic room generation and cleanup are some of the laggy-ist things that server does. Removing some of that load, might be a good idea. Just my thought at least.

There is a lot of concern about making aeros more powerful so I would propose this implementation be done in the following capacity...

1. No weird cardinal direction i.e. upn

Instead, if you fly in two coordinating directions such as up and east OR down and north - it would automagically vertically diagonal fly you.

2. Flaps to activate/regulate this feature.

A pilot would have to select FLAPS UP/DOWN to enable this feature and it would only allow vertical diagonal flight in the corresponding direction. Unfortunately, this would also increase piloting difficulty and therefore potential to stall out, etc. and going in the cardinal direction opposing the flaps would consume more fuel if a pilot is not paying attention.

Flaps would also be a part of an aero that could be damaged.

3. I don't think that's enough.

We need some more ways to balance this feature.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't just multiply the time it takes to move for diagonals so that they take up equivalent time.
That's also a very good option alittlelonger.
removed due to ic info

(Edited by Slither at 6:48 am on 11/18/2020)

So double the time it takes to make diagonal moves like this?

Make it take double the fuel economy.

Suddenly this is balanced, and still allows for the simple logic of being able to do it. Because you can make these types of moves on the horizontal already.

It also simplifies routing severely. Which is an issue for aeros.

I could see this type of movement requiring a higher skill check to avoid stalling as well.

Hell I could see it working into the greater economy of gaining player skill as a pilot, with the landmarks that Johnny was talking about in OOC being added.

With novice pilots trusting their eyes more than their instruments, and going from landmark to landmark. But as they gain experience, they realize that there's a full 360 degrees of freedom around them in every direction and instead of going from the land mark at 1, 1, 1, on the xyz grid to the landmark at 2, 7, 3, by going up twice times east once and then south six times. they can instead cut the corner and go upeast once, upsouth once and south five times. And trusting their instruments more than their eyes.

Sounds like an excellent idea. Rhea's got a point that this can be balanced, while reducing server lag at the same time and increasing options for skilled/unskilled pilots. I don't see any reason not to include something like this.
I've never noticed any lag from flying, nor routing issues, nor any other drawbacks. Flying is easily the most powerful non-combat system in the game and it benefits a tiny subset of players some of whom have already have unbalanced advantages that should really be phased out. From Slither's How to BB:

Things We Consider Poor Form

1. Posting or advocating for ideas that will benefit only a select few in character IE: make the gun my character uses 10x better. The BGBB is about improving the game and the community as a whole.

I guess I'm missing why flying is so brokenly powerful? I just don't see it. Are people convulting the lack of ways to damage a a vehicle with aeros themselves being powerful? Because I can say that even before this most recent patch there were a number of ways to target and disable an aero that were widely accessible. There are even more now.

what I am getting from this thread is a general sense of 'This thing is powerful outside of the way -I- play the game, and thus it is broken'.

That being said, Vertical diagonals would be cool, but I don't think it's necessary. The navigation in the game is already exceptionally difficult if it's not route you commonly fly, and I personally cannot see how I would ever be able to mentally navigate other than 'platter to platter' like you currently do.

it would be cool if other people had this as an option, and maybe it would be nice to use once I got used to it, but this would 100% be hardmode OOCly.

It's not about benefiting me or a select group of players icly.

It's about benefiting EVERY player, that WILL ever own or use an Aero.

This is about improving the game for aero pilots as a whole.

I won't discuss my own characters positions beyond to say that I do not "directly" benefit from this.I may only benefit from it by the usage of aero's by other people. As would all other players who acquired the services of a skilled pilot.

Finally... Anecdotal sure... But nearly every pilot I have known has either complained about lag while flying, or had staff tell them to fly slower in certain places.

Ground bound vehicles have equally lengthy input for travel without the added benefit of bypassing traffic for some of them. Why should the game only cut down on the input length of aeros?
Topside they're just cars that skip traffic.

In the Mix they're extraordinarily powerful. An aero can be in any outdoor room within seconds, outrun any pursuers or pursuees, can exit rooms before a player can type a single letter much less engage them with their character. For offensive and defensive purposes they're the single strongest support tool any character can use.

Flying permapad vehicles which are even stronger are completely unbalanced on every level and really should have been removed entirely, and they're the absolutely last thing that need QoL improvements or buffs.

It's disingenuous to frame something as being for everyone when what's actually being presented are improvements to the most overpowered thing in the game.

removed due to ic info

(Edited by Slither at 6:47 am on 11/18/2020)

0x1mm I 100% agree that flying permapads need to go. Any moving permapad is exceptionally overpowered but not because it is a vehicle, but because it is both.

That being said, I do not think vehicles are inherently unbalanced, but certainly the ways to interact with them negatively could be easier. I think we are getting there, and this latest round of patches set a groundwork for the next steps.

I agree, I don't think vehicles are inherently unbalanced, and I think aeros are just barely balanced right now because of their cost, high player-skill requirements, and equal accessibility.

I think the response to how powerful piloting is should be to use more pilots IC rather than weakening AVs or piloting OOC, but by the same token I know very well how good these systems can be in practice, and outside of fixing @bugs, my personal experience was never one of feeling like things needed to be improved to be viable.

Diagonal flight is much more useful than some players, who have never used diagonal traversal otherwise, might appreciate. Not only does a vehicle pass through fewer rooms in total, it removes the need to enter specific rooms on certain types of approaches. Which rooms within a given range an aero passes through are very relevant in terms of how visible they are from the ground or any other given point.

Vertical diagonals would place a vehicle beyond visual range from a given ground point in fewer total rooms, and speed is not relevant since that feedback is a function of the number of rooms moved through rather than the speed.

I actually have come across a few varying things my self that could be balanced for Aero's. One of them being that you can literally startup, and takeoff an Aero in less than a second. The biggest weakness to most aircraft in the (yeah shoot me Imma say it) real world, is that it takes time to start up the engines, and lift off. But I can hit start and takeoff at the exact same time and then bounce like it's nothing. Perhaps it should take a few seconds for the Aero to startup fully and become flyable? Maybe even longer, I dunno.
Since people in this thread can't seem to stop revealing IC info, requiring us to edit or hide posts, this thread is over.