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All tied up!
Ye feckin' sod get'es zippie off'me rookers!

Hey guys.

As a way to support my anti-sleep kill campaign I would like to propose an idea for discussion.

The idea is to provide a healthy supply of zipties/rope and other bindings that could be purchased an applied to incapacitated players without being too extremely overpowered like hand-cuffs.

There could be a simple strength check to determine whether or not they can be used to hold you.

This would provide an overwhelming alternative to feeling the need to sleep kill someone.

You could bind them and isolate them until they log in and you can commence RP and everyone can participate.

If they don't enjoy it from that point that is fine atleast they are afforded the opportunity to participate and be aware of what is happening as it is happening to their characters and not while at work or some place equally depressing like a wake or funeral.

Please discuss, thank you.

There has been more conversation on this elsewhere and I'd like to post the progress on the idea.

The very core and purpose of this idea is to provide alternatives to sleep kills and I think it accomplishes that quite well.

Zip ties can be used to bind an incapacitated enemy.

A gag can be used to to block them from speaking.

Together these two things would enable the infilitrators or kidnappers to subdue their target enough to lock them in a secure location preferrably without SIC until both of them can be online at the same time so they can commence with their RP.

Whether it be a beating, mouthing off, torture whatever it is you'll have the opportunity to add substance to what you're trying to accomplish..

Now it was brought up that what happens if the person who's been captured does not log in for several days? Or what if you've put a good effort in trying to log in during the times they usually play but keep missing them?

I do believe that GM judgement for sleep kills would be best saved for these situations where a strong effort has been made to see RP come from this and if it goes on for too long and becomes just a waiting game I would support wholeheartedly a GM making a live or die decision on the matter because the player has done everything in their power to bring RP to the the other player.

And giving options and alternatives to both the GMs and the players is always a positive thing I think.


Thanks for reading.

I like the idea of being able to disable an opponent in combat in order to prolong RP. A coded alternative to breaking somebodies neck should be breaking their knees. It's not something that you can do to your opponent until you've effectively won the fight but it serves as an alternative to simply killing them and ending the current chapter of RP.
On the other hand, I don't like the idea of being able to trap people with somewhat regularity. If the WJF locked you up in a cell for a week that doesn't have access to SIC, you'd be disconnected from the rest of the world and unable to play the game. It would be equivalent to being $voided for a week. The problem with capturing somebody who is asleep is that you never know when they'll wake up. You never know if you'll be online at the same time. And you'll never know if there is even a GM on to rescue the person who is incapacitated.
If we RP out a kidnapping, give the kidnapped a SIC signal, and perhaps a way for players to rescue the individual that would lessen the entrapment. Bring in the authorities and you got a rescue mission on your hands. Get all parties involved at once and we can RP a situation where the swat team is about to kick down the door when they hear a BANG! and the hostage's body is tossed out the window.
I doubt we'll be able to find an alternative to sleepkilling until the merits of sleepkilling have been clearly outlined and discussed.

I believe gags have been brought up before, which is an idea I like.

but if they're allready asleep why not slap some magna cuffs on em and drag em to the sewers. There are spots down there.

Not knockin your idea's just sayin there are probably more important things to code since there are tools in place to handle this allready. Not sleep killing and dragging someone off to rp with later is really up to you.

Magna cuffs are rare unless you're a judge, that's the reason we need an alternative that can be defended against with a strength check so we don't have a large supply of cuffs around considering they can't be broken.

Oh and Cryer....

I don't think you totally got what I was saying..

If the sleeper doesn't wake up over a long period of time then the GM's should come in and render a decision on a sleepkill.

And if you lock someone up and both players on are at the same time you SHOULD be trying to RP with them since you're the one keeping them isolated. If the Gms notice you're just keeping them away from RP then they should either be  finished off or let go considering you'd be abusing it.

GM discretion still plays a part here and it shouldn't be a problem if everyone doesn't act like a big jerk and try to ruin the game experience.

The stuff you mentioned are really extremes that I cannot see happening too often especially with GM oversight on these situations.

Also who's to say the kidnapped person doesn't attempt to break the ziptie until you're NOT around and then they can try to kick down a door and break out.

That would create a lot of RP.

The key here is not to make zipties near as invulnerable as hand cuffs. You've got to provide a degree of probability that keeps it competitive.

I generally like the idea.  Tho I'm sure we've had similar ones that went nowhere.

And rightly so.

What your suggesting is alot more breaking into player's sleeping residence.  That's something I'm not too keen on.

Ya, I gotta say I sorta agree.  There is a difference between opening a sleepers door and just walking in.

A mixer equivalent to handcuffs would accomplish roughly the same thing as breaking their knees. The point is to keep the damn guy alive for more RP even after you have him defeated. The breaking of limbs just seems more practical to me since it doesn't require new items and the feeling I have is that it would add to realism while handcuffs as they are now don't seem to add to the games immersion. Also broken limbs would be very fun for doctors! Reattaching limbs is even better, assuming the person didn't bleed out.

How about instead of handcuffs we have a method of deteriorating the ever loving shit out of someone's fatigue level once they're unconscious or otherwise at our mercy?

Almost forgot, Jotun, if you use a different skill to accomplish the same task is it really that wrong?

(Edited by ReeferMadness at 8:29 pm on Feb. 18, 2009)

Yes, the method does make quite a bit of difference.  I can go into why  but I'm done with that argument.  I will say that where you sleep is pretty important too.  

There are non-WJF magna cuffs coded.  This seems like it would be a solution to the restraint problem.  I don't think they are available ICly, but maybe we should start selling a limited supply of them somewhere.

As for gags, that is a cool idea.. and blindfolds would be interesting as well.

Cuffs are available ICly without any authoritarian connections required, unless my brain is fucking with me again. Treading very carefully here because 90% of the posts I ever made to this board got me screamed at for divulging too much IC info.

I shall also mention that years and years ago, back when I was a spritely noob, my character killed sleepers almost on principle simply because that made it far, far easier to take any chyen they might have, and basically did away with the entire pickpocketing system in favour of "take pile of chyen".

Nowadays I know better than to do that kind of thing. Perhaps, though, one way to combat sleep-killing would be to incorporate the pickpocket code to accomodate corpses. Some players, particularly new ones, won't understand which code is okay to use and which code is incomplete, nor the connotations of murdering someone's hard-earned character in its sleep. It's cyberpunk, after all.

And what else... oh yes, the pickpocketing code pisses me off. By the time I've managed to wrest my hands from my sleeping victim's pockets I'm halfway down the street.

If someone is sleeping and you pick pocket them, you get all the chyen they have on them.

Also, I have fixed up frisk so that if someone is sleeping you see everything they have on them.


Just wanna say somethin about the fuzzy cuffs.
Yeah, you totally know I've used them before....*cough*
Thing is, even the wearer can unlatch them and walk away from an incedent.  May need to be changed up a bit.