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  • Change how Disadvantages are generated
  • Select multiple advantages for multiple disadvantages

Change how Disadvantages are generated
Select multiple advantages for multiple disadvantages

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So... I'm uncertain of how to word this without getting into spoilery territory.

But advantages and disadvantages are currently select 1 advantage and then it generates 1 disadvantage...

This process is muddled by the fact that you typically want to select multiple advantages. Meaning that if you roll the slot machine and are intending to get, say advantages in MOOSEX and JOY SKILLS, but it generates a disadvantage in JOY SKILLS on your first pass when you select MOOSEX, you might have to contact GM's about it to get them to reroll that for you. Because it might be counter to your stripper assassin's concept to be terrible at JOY SKILLS.

This proposal would be to change the system so that you are locked into a menu, ala assign UE, or certain terminals, until you are done generating advantages. This would allow for you to select all of your advantages in one go, and then have it generate the mass of disadvantages all at once. Preventing the above situation.

By Rhea at Oct 31, 2020 10:40 AM
I really like this idea. I had to use a mulligan to redo mine, and was told I could keep doing it until my core skills weren't disadvantaged.

It would have been better if I did not have a bother a staff member at all in that situation.

By Andromeda at Oct 31, 2020 10:43 AM
Yes please. Having to pester GM's for your one-time reroll, only for RNG to screw you a second time is... Bah.
By CryptPhoenix at Oct 31, 2020 10:43 AM
So you want to ensure that you're able to game the system to get all the advantages you need, without having the chance of getting a disadvantage that... Gives you a disadvantage?

You already get one mulligan if a disadvantage goes against one of your character's core skills/stats.

I'm going to vote no on this, seems to want to nullify the entire reason the random disadvantages exist, in my opinion.

By Mench at Oct 31, 2020 10:44 AM
Oh, you only get one? I was told to let the staff know if I rolled a bad one again.

If you're only supposed to get one, I guess that makes sense.

By Andromeda at Oct 31, 2020 10:44 AM
Help mulligan says just once per character. I think you got someone on a "nice day", Andromeda.
By beandip at Oct 31, 2020 10:55 AM
I did the napkin math on this at one point and I seem to remember working out that if you have more than four 'primary' skills which you feel you cannot afford to have a disadvantage on, then it's more optimal to roll no advantages at all.
By 0x1mm at Oct 31, 2020 10:57 AM
That math checks out, but what "you feel" about it is probably not rooted in math at all, since it's completely obscure how great or small the advantage/disadvantage magnitude is and precisely which specific skill rolls they apply to. It's not a blanket lift or debuff to your entire skill.
By beandip at Oct 31, 2020 10:59 AM
beandip,

For technical skills that really only do 1 or 2 very specific things, it's pretty easy to suss out exactly what the ad/disad does.

By RedSteelButterfly at Oct 31, 2020 11:02 AM
The overall advantage and disadvantage system is (from what I've gathered) more meant to help shape RP and character development more than being a min-max system to make an ideal character. The disadvantage is not big enough to cause a major delay, just enough to spur RP. You're a cab driver, for example, but rolled a disadvantage on driving. Maybe you got in a car crash and are now skittish in vehicles, but doing your best to work past it. Its like how Shadowrun does advantages and disadvantages, its more for flavor than overall benefit.
By Dawnshot at Oct 31, 2020 11:07 AM
I only ended up needing to use one re-roll anyway so that's good.

Curiously, though, I wonder if people opt to just kill themselves off if their disadvantages aren't what they want to role-play, after exhausting their do-over.

I couldn't see myself doing that, but I know there's a lot of strict min-maxers in these types of games.

By Andromeda at Oct 31, 2020 11:10 AM
Dawnshot,

A disadvantage can be worth a 100 UE in the right skill. That's not 'story driving', That is 'crippling'.

By RedSteelButterfly at Oct 31, 2020 11:23 AM
Even for @stat happy min-maxers, if they understood the system well enough, the only really bad outcome for an "optimized" character where skills where tiny edges did factor occasionally, really can only happen in 0.11% of cases.

It's usually a bad idea to touch them at all until you understand which skills do what and how and how advantages/disadvantages would factor at all.

By 0x1mm at Oct 31, 2020 11:26 AM
I'm not sure advantages and disadvantages even do that much to begin with. Once had a combat character who had a disadvantage in their primary combat skill, yet was able to beat up a lot of people (at their level) who did not have that issue.

As long as you build/train right I can't see them having that much of an impact on the upper level either, but maybe there's something I don't know?

By Necronex666 at Oct 31, 2020 11:34 AM
I really hate how I used up my mulligan and got an even worse-fitting disadvantage to my character concept. I have however given it a reason in the back of my head to make it work, but still kinda sucks and I will probably not spend any more UE on said skill.
By Veleth at Oct 31, 2020 12:34 PM
You're asking for minmaxing abilities here. If I want only 3 skills in my build (let's say, AV maintenance, dodging, and munitions), I pick these 3 advantages and roll 3 disadvantages in skills I won't ever use? What's the point then?
By villa at Oct 31, 2020 12:45 PM
If you only have three skills, you're already minmaxing, and none of this really affects you. However, if you're playing a very generalized technical character, you're going to be focusing on 6-10 skills that are very important to you for primary and secondary capabilities. Even with being able to determine that you're not going to screw yourself on 3 of your primaries, odds are you're going to hurt on one of your secondaries.
By RedSteelButterfly at Oct 31, 2020 1:21 PM
I think that's basically the intent of the system.

It's pretty optimal to take no advantages for most characters, and is often ideal to take only one for quite a few others.

Taking three you are definitely rolling the dice.

By 0x1mm at Oct 31, 2020 1:27 PM
While I'm generally in favor of not making the system wholly controllable (and indeed am wondering if the advantage/disadvantage thing is something we should want as a whole if all it does is create build planning instead of RP) I do think there is a valid point in saying that a number of fields and professions (as in an array of tasks that one must generally be able to perform most if not all of to work in), and especially technical ones, are very spread out across a large number of skills, as opposed to others which are very, very heavily consolidated or governed by skills that in themselves cover a huge variety of fields.
By PCow at Oct 31, 2020 1:31 PM
When you're picking an advantage, why not have it roll 2-3 disadvantages and you're forced to pick one? Sounds like that would eliminate the need to contact for a reroll.

And if you abort, it picks one for you.

By alittlelonger at Oct 31, 2020 1:31 PM
Problem with letting people pick their disadvantages is that a lot of them could easily be considered inconsequential.

I say the system's fine, as is. Initial roll and a mulligan, let the chips fall where they lie.

By HolyChrome at Oct 31, 2020 1:34 PM
@HolyChrome

Arguments are constantly made against any system that dictates how YOU play your character. I don't see why this is different? If i want to insure that three things that are important to my character are emphasized, should I as the player creating the character have some say in that? If i got in to roll my ads with the intent to roll three, and I roll a conflicting disad on my first roll, how is that not the game dictating my character to me?

By RedSteelButterfly at Oct 31, 2020 1:41 PM
Like Necro mentioned, they overcame their disadvantage.

Some people are just born sucking at stuff. Like me and math. Or driving. Or remembering where I put things.

By HolyChrome at Oct 31, 2020 1:43 PM
If you only have three skills, you're already minmaxing, and none of this really affects you.

Seems a bit of a far fetched assumption. I'd like to know how having 3 skills equals to minmaxing.

However, if you're playing a very generalized technical character, you're going to be focusing on 6-10 skills that are very important to you for primary and secondary capabilities. Even with being able to determine that you're not going to screw yourself on 3 of your primaries, odds are you're going to hurt on one of your secondaries.

If you have 6-10 skills and you roll 3 disadvantages you have the same chances of rolling disadvantages in one of your 6-10 skills, meaning you still need a mulligan.

Arguments are constantly made against any system that dictates how YOU play your character. I don't see why this is different? If i want to insure that three things that are important to my character are emphasized, should I as the player creating the character have some say in that? If i got in to roll my ads with the intent to roll three, and I roll a conflicting disad on my first roll, how is that not the game dictating my character to me?

These systems are EVERYWHERE in Sindome, ranging from combat, DCD, random substat assignment, and just plain out luck. Things don't go your way in this game, it's the whole essence of it.

By villa at Oct 31, 2020 1:47 PM
I always put major flaws into my character concepts. Whether those are physical, social, mental or otherwise. I don't minmax and based on all of this, I should be allowed to say who my character is. It's a roleplaying game, but won't the game trust me to create a realistic individual with their flaws and quirks?
By Veleth at Oct 31, 2020 1:47 PM
This is a long running request that is appropriately prioritized.
By Johnny at Nov 2, 2020 12:42 PM
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