Corpies

I think the biggest IC fubar with corpies is the whole living on Red thing...(part of me thinks the entrance to the city should be on gold and then people migrate to Red...) if someone is corporate and moves to withmore, we should delve them into that environment right away.  So we plop them in a cab and send them up top to gold.

Now this is what i see...on gold is another job (watches the admin's eyes roll) similar to SHI but instead of factory work, it's secretarial, or filing, or something like that.  And it pays much better so that corpies can afford just a bit more to stay at Habitat x (yet another critical sidenote - those should be a bit nicer than rose i think :P).  Now you say "well that just feeds another job blah blah" Well...

Gosh now that I say this i think we've talked about it before but what the hell...

In chargen, allow players to choose mixer or corporate employee (Do you really see a need for any other option?) and that decides a number of things like starting point etc....but code wise, it simply decides who their 'charisma' is directed towards.

A mixer's 'charm' is going to be different that a corpies obviously. But this is how the job up on gold is balanced, only those with corporate charisma are able to work there.

I think allowing players to play corporate from the start is the key to building that base.  Bringing corpies up from Red just doesn't seem to make sense.  And gives those pesky mixers too much time to rape and pilleage their sense of materialism and segregation.  

Again i dunno if it's something that can be 'whipped up'...maybe for now it's just an rp flag that says hey this person is corporate.

OOH i remember too that it'd allow for Bruce to perhaps be a bit bias on what he gives.  not in pay scale...but giving mixers deliveries on gold and red, and corpie n00bs deliveries on gold and green...so even if charisma doesn't play into it, the rp flag could make for some nice NPC reaction stuff.  

The Judge in Cordoba station pushes you away from the exit as he lets men in ties and women in dress suits by freely, "I'm sorry -citizen-...you must have gotten off at the wrong station.  Glad I could -help- you find your way home."

So whatcha think? Corpie version of SHI on gold, corpie flag allowing only corpie oriented PCs to work it - tada simple beginnings to other ideas.

-SM

Quote: from Jinkorei on 8:42 am on Jan. 6, 2004[br] �Yes, I can be bought. �:) )

Whore ;)

The 'merit' of the aplication and our ability to be convinced that the player understands the corpie character and concept in general, and will play the character in a themely manner, and do it well, will have the greatest impact.

Quote: from Stonemonk on 12:26 pm on Jan. 6, 2004[br]
If i were to apply would past RP experience, standing with the SD community and in general likeability have any effect? �If i was an OOC arse and wasn't good at differentiating OOC/IC would I have to perhaps wait until i can show better judgement (i would think)?

Assuming the 'I' was meant to be anyone in the community, yes.

I think the mixer PCs have quite a few animosities towards corpies...and they're pretty vocal.  But to be blanket across the bored would rule out all the hypocracy.  Was it one of our memebers who on their live journal posted something about anarchy.  How anarchy shirts and accesories are sooo huge, the message is fighting a system that's trying to take advantage of the community, not just against government but against commercialism etc...yet the anarchy clothing purchased is all apart of that system.

Bite the hand that feeds, you, but leave enough fingers that it can still feed you.

-SM

and what did you mean about ruling out all hypocracy?  I understand the example of the anarchy shirts, those who have conformed to not conforming, but how does that tie in to the mixers?
Most Mixers despise all that corpies are.
Some mixers aspire to be a corpie.
Corpies think the mixers are scum and should be eradicated.
So some mixers might need to go to green, but not to spend money. Mixers, IMO, would rather cheat the corps than bow to them and pay them. and corpies would do whatever it takes to make the mixers' lifes even moer unbearable. Even if that meant befriending one with enough chyen to get them to do your dirty work. I think its this animosity that should be more.. physical , i guess. Vocal was a poor choiceof words.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying a bar brawl should be born if a corpie is seen spotted in the drome just for the hell of it, but i think the mixers would definetly hassle the corpie, or try to swindel their chyen from them, or straight up pick thier pockets. So the mixers keep the corpie around them long enough to suck them for all they're worth then take out the trash in a very spectacular CP way.

Mixers have one driving force: Greed.
Corpies have two: Greed with style and Eradicating the Mixers.

Corpies battle over who's car is bigger, who's apartment is more lavish.
Mixers battle over who slept with whos sister, who can pull a trigger faster for more money, who's hassling the wrong guy's territory.

So yes the hypocracy needs to be there, but increasing the hostilities in a themely manner between the corpies and the mixers wouldn't end the hypocracy.
+ ~~~~~~~~~ +
+  ~~TooL~~   +
+ ~~~~~~~~~ +

If there's a corpie down on red, I'll harrass and even rob them if it makes sense for my character.

So, in conclusion, mixers and corpies aren't so black and white. �They're all people looking to make good for themselves, the just choose different means.

Edit: Oh yeah, SHFL.  Why the hell shouldn't I go up and play Riot Gear.  Having fun is just another type of greed.  Greed for entertainment.

(Edited by Hirononbu at 2:24 pm on Jan. 7, 2004)

MOST mixers are going to complain about corpies 1. cuz they need someone to blaim, and 2. cuz they're jealous. �I would venture to bet that 90% of the Red population would KILL to live like the people on green, and isn't that in essence what everyone is trying to do? Work to a better life style. �Most of the mix doesn't live there because they PREFER it but because it's all that they are able to accomplish because of lack of skills or lack of motivation. �Every mixer hates being the one held down by the man, but would become the man in an instant. �

Now that's left alone, then you've got people with agendas that sway the masses with supposed truths. �Some of these people are idealists trying to make a difference whether they're really right or night is the debate, and others who know how to sway the masses and could care less about anything besides monitary, informational, political or physical power that swaying the masses brings.

Mixer's love/hate the corpies.

Now i'm defining corpies by people who work in corporations, are members of a family that is supported by a job in a corporation. �Not by the mentality of being against mixers.

Most corpies grew up as corpies, they've always had, the same way most mixers have always been without. �They see it as a right and not a privilege. �Having a toilet that wipes their ass for them is like breathing air…it's always been there.

For most corpies, they see the news every day on television and it's just covered with accidents, murders, crime sprees. �It's plastered with news about Red and it's all bad...because that's how the media works. �So there is an inherant animosity because all they see are the cruel, inhumane ways that mixers deal with eachother. �There is compassion in a corpies heart, but it dies so quickly after seeing so much. �That breeds fear. �Walking by anyone who looks even slightly dishevled will make you think three times about taking your eyes off them. �that fear leads to the instinct to protect. Protect themselves, their children and their 'birthright'. �So they supress and keep the mixers where they are. �Laws are voted on and passed with their protection in mind.

But then there are the corpies who see something to be gained from the mixers. �Slave wage jobs, factories, faces without names, desperation to do anything for the right ammount of chyen.

So yes there are corpies that keep mixers down to fill their own pockets. �And there are some who feel the need to protect themselves from the mixers...and rightly so, mixers for the most part act like animals because of where they've been put. �a Catch 22. �And that animal charicteristic is project on every mixer, even the idealists �who are trying to be heard and help heal red. �The cards are against them as well because they've already been labeled.

So black and white...no...dirty shades of black and blue and red...yes.

(Edited by Stonemonk at 6:23 pm on Jan. 7, 2004)

how dare you beat my rambling length :P

*after reading*

And this is how i know this man is and will continue to be a good King GM.  *tear*

-SM

(Edited by Stonemonk at 7:38 pm on Jan. 7, 2004)

There are Mixers who are stupid and easy to take advantage of.  There are Corpies who take advantage of them.  But what about those people who were hardened by the streets of RED, but are in the position to take advantage of, frame, or generally leech all the money from, a corporate character (or two, or three..)?

There's still room for those, right?

Let me start with a quote I agree with and touch on several things that have been said by Hiron, Aikao and Jotun.

Hiron - "So, mixers characters should be dirt poor, unless the mess up bad or something."

Absolutely. �-Unless- they have the motivation and aspiration to pick themselves up and -do- something. �This is what the 'kingpins' are and those that try to claw thier way up. �But ask yourself, where are they going, and why?
What really defines a mixer? �Is it simply where they live? �No, it's thier motivation. �Remember, the actions of the anti-hero?
Aspiration for monetary gain, is -not- the prime motivator for the classic cyberpunk. �Yes, I know, everyone is different, but having a cause and sticking your neck out in order to achieve that cause is one of the basic definitions of CP character. �That doesn't mean that greed doesn't play into things from time to time, it's just not the main motivator. �Vary from that, at the risk of loosing part of the cyberpunk edginess.
The man is opressing you.
The man builds shitty products you cant afford
The man keeps you in poverty
The man pays you shitty wages
The government doesn't care about you

This is something that with very few exceptions, is lacking in the game, IMHO.
Yes, greed motivates people, but passion motivates them far more, as does hatred and most of the negative emotions, and also IMHO, provides for -much- better RP.
Would you kill someone for $1? �Most people would say no.
Would you kill someone you caught shtooping your husband/wife when that person was also your boss, looked you over for every promotion and award at work, cut your pay, demoted you and killed your cat and dog if you caught them in the act? �I think a lot more people would say yes to that.

Question: �Why would -anyone- with 50k in the bank and a demonstrated ability to continue to earn significant (for a mixer) amounts of chyen, want to continue living on red.

Answer: They wouldn't. �They've aspired to something more and uless they're the charitable type and donate that chyen to help those less fortunate, they move up to gold or green to enjoy -better living conditions- and to improve the quality of thier life. �Why in hell, would anyone -want- to live in the -real- conditions of red if they don't have to? �The 'kingpins' spoken of, don't live on red. �They have thier posh places topside and send orders down to those who are -required- to be on red to act as a local presence, the fixers and enforcers and those types associated with an organization. �And they do this, through the food chain that exists on red, that most PCs fall somewhere in the middle of. �Your 'independant' businesspeople of either legal or illegal means tend to stay on red not because they really want to, but because they either need to be close to thier customer base (the fixers, drug dealers and illicit types) or need to be close to handle the frequent problems with break-ins and such (the Hookies, Raymond and Jonses).

We've boosted the economy to the point where most active characters who have been around more than a couple of weeks, really don't need to hustle in order to meet thier basic living needs of food, water, shelter … �In a true cyberpunk reality, this would not be the case. �People would be hungry, not just in a physical sense, but in an emotional one as well. �They would -have- to lie, cheat, steal, maim, mug, kill ... just to survive in the shitty conditions they live in.

Consider that most of the ambient population of red is in that state. �I think it can be a stated assumption that the character has risen above that and is now at a crossroads in thier life and need to answer two basic questions that will determine thier direction and motivation.

"Do I want to just survive, or do I want to thrive?"

and

"Can I put up with all the bullshit the man is shoveling at me, or am I gonna do something about it."

Think of it as a chart, with the first question being the X axis and the second being the Y axis. �Now answer the questions and plot the resulting point.

The answers when combined with how badly the character wants to be in the chosen state, determine the characters -basic- motivations and directions.

Wanting to thrive is more appropriate for a cyberpunk character in a game setting, than simply just wanting to survive. �The realities of a volunteer staff simply do not make it possible for every character who wants to be left alone to be forced into action often enough to make the game themely and enjoyable. �Some of the most memorable cyberpunk characters from books and film just wanted to survive and be left alone. �They all, however, had a cause, something that they -needed- to do, in order to to be left alone, or so they thought. �They were all put into the role of being the anti-hero. �And given the number of characters who are either directionless, or seem to lack ambition, I can only assume that most if not all of these, just simply want to play the part of being left alone.

I think I've shown that we know there are no black and whites, �and have shown that �there are certain shades of grey that are more themely than others.

These themely shades of grey are the differences and subtelities, given the environment that is the cyberpunk setting of red that give players room for developing unique and well thought out characters in a -themely- manner.

Jotun is correct, there is no set amount that you should have as a mixer. �However, it can be stated fairly factually that when taken as a whole, the corpies will have far more than the mixers, and as long as that is the case, we have a more themely game.

The mixers are the underdogs, the cards are stacked against them. �The question is ..

Whatcha' gonna do about it, punk? �:)

Exactly, that's the way it's supposed to be. �Life sucks as a mixer, yes?

Quote: from Jotun on 11:36 am on Jan. 8, 2004[br]also small playerbase makes making money not always a possibility, there are times that, no matter what you do your not going to make shit, no matter what you do.

I'll agree with that as far as it goes, and will add

The man is opressing you.
The man builds shitty products you cant afford
The man keeps you in poverty
The man pays you shitty wages
The government doesn't care about you.

The small player base is a part of why the PC to PC economy suffers. �Corpies, should help that tremendously. �Don't ask me how, 'cause I won't say. �:P

Of course there are some times when you wouldn't be able to make shit. �Such is life.

That's (part of) what Bruce and SHI are for, those times when a mixer -can't- make chyen to live any other way. �We don't want you dead, we just want your (not just you, but all true -mixers-) character to wish they were, because that's what it'd be like to -really- be in that situation.

Quote: from Jotun on 11:36 am on Jan. 8, 2004[br]�which means for a mixer without a steady corperate job, there are gonna be times when you could afford to live topside, and times when you probibaly can't, espically with the extravagant (allbiet realistic) prices of living topside.

Any mixer with a steady 'corporate' job, really is not a mixer. �They don't really -need- to have a cause because now they are one of the haves, not the have nots. �They've sold out, sucked it up and decided that since they can't beat them, they're gonna join them. �They're working thier way up the food chain, so are much less inclined to rebel against the 'man' as they figured out how to get from 'the man' what it is they (think they) want, and now would be disliked by much of the lobster-syndrome mixers who not only hate the person for now being a corpie but see them as a traitor as well.

As for the times you can and can't afford to live topside, that's where style over substance and living on the edge come in.

You're up one day, and down the next .. living the fat life in a nice place only to find that your pal screwed you over and now it's time to move back down to live in the hell that is red.

There are -so- many dynamics that come into play in the cyberpunk theme that have barely been touched on here.

And lastly …

there should be more emphasis on GM's creating plotlines, not watching you waiting for an opportunity to puppet some judge/agent to chase you down, or some ganger to rob you, yes these things are a reality of life and should happen from time to time, but gm's should work on plotlines too, not to say that they don't but the should even more. �

First off, it was stated that wasn't meant to be a shot, so I won't take it as such, and I'll address the complaint I know lingers under the wording by saying 'IC actions have IC consequences.'

To be blunt, and honest, and this is directed at -no one- in particular, but if the staff didn't have to spend the time they do dealing with players (ICly and OOCly) for things they know they shouldn't be doing because they're twinky, fluffy or generally not in theme, we'd be able to chew through things on the various lists of things to do much faster than we do.

I'm going to take the statement regarding the lack of GM plotting as a compliment. �Why? �Because there are so many plot lines going on right now that are either ..

Directly GM created
or
Started by a GM and then mutated by a character into something completely different that it's almost unrecognizable.

… that it's become -very- difficult as a GM to keep up on the RP.

They're out there, and if you don't know you're part of a GM initiated plot, then we've done our job and done it well.

Plotting on a Moo is rarely the linear plots where characters have to jump through hoop a, b, c, d, and e before getting reward f, though there are some of those, and they tend to be the big 'events' that everyone hears about (eventually).

Rather, plotting on a moo is a more subtle manipulation of things intended to put characters in situations and allow them to react in character .. to RP. �Sometimes that is throwing a ganger or a judge or other NPC at you for -some- manner of interaction, sometimes it's dropping them a tidbit of information that sets them off in a direction and starts a chain of events. �Those are examples of -obvious- GM involvement, and there are other ways as well that I'm not going to disclose, because if you haven't figured out how you're being plotted/manipulated, I'm sure as -hell- not gonna tell you ... ;)

and as far as plots go there is nothing more I can really say about them because I'm not a gm, and I don't want to offend any thin skins.

IC actions have IC consequences

Crime is very high and everyone you know has been a victim of a violent crime at one point or another.  You're one of almost 40 million people who are crammed into an area that's too small for ten million.  Garbage, debris, homeless people and CORPSES are seen all over the streets and alleys that you walk.

this is all I'm going to say about this, and I (probibaly) won't even adress any responses made about it for many reasons I'm not going to share right now. here goes:
those three sentences above, the last quote that is. In most big citites I've lived in and visited, the police have a decently high crime rate, and a pretty large population, but nowhere near the crime rate and population described here. yet they still have little time for smaller crimes,theft, robbery and whatnot, because they are too buisy worrying about violent crime.  now multiply that by 10 because of amazingly cramped living space. (please stop and consider for a second having a enclosed space meant for 10 million people, accomidateing 40 million.)  and an insanely high crime rate.(corpses littering the streets…)  if you approached a terra agent on red and told them your wallet was stolen the nicest possable response you would get is "I'll do what I can" before they walk away thinking "yeah right".    gold, green, and blue would, of course be a different case, but red would be almost akin to a war zone, literally....

Toss this run around Jink, I played it for three years...

What if the -cause- was for the betterment of Red as a whole. And in order to acheive that... one must be plugged into it?

Living in the conditions... whether you have the money, the income, or motivation... may not be what defines you. Hardened ex-military could live in a hole in the ground if they really wanted to... Red may be a -step up- for people who have lived in the shit holes of the shit holes before.

But what if your motivation was simply to try and help the people who suffer hold onto the last bits of sanity that they had?

Thats the general motivation that Lucifer originated as... of course, it shifted and changed as the years went by... but all in all, selflessness in itself is the biggest motivator of all... it's alll a matter of perspectice.

(Not to mention the fact that 70% of RP seems to be on Red... Most people will want to work around that.)

Most new players will want to be where the action is, those not farmiliar with SD won't want to be corpies if they don't have large amounts of RP...

Thus, new players constantly become mixers (or at least red level desidents.)

Now, its very very hard to switch from mixer to corpie once you've established yourself... (unless you've built in the ability to do so in your RP... which again, most newbies won't be able to do.)

So you get a few oldbies who come back and build corpie characters, or you get dead players to create new corpie characters... but in the end, more people join the ranks of Red. Its kind of like a never-ending cycle. ;-)