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Immigration as it should be ...

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2080 - Japan's most important tidal wall breaks and most of downtown Osaka is flooded in thirty feet of water. Withmore City, known as the 'dome' to the world, closes its doors to 98% of all immigrants. Life in the dome goes on…

So ... your all like, that 2%.

Entering into a corporate super-arcology.

A corporate culture where the only people of value are those who provide value ... to the bottom line. Everyone is supposed to work. Everyone is supposed to have value.

Why … if your all in this 2% of immigrants that are accepted, would they let you in without them knowing you'll be able to get work, provide that value.

I should get to the meat of the idea ...

Work permits, or licenses for specific lines of work. Not required in some places of course, but absolutely important in others.

Judge Cock Sure roughs up Lucy, asking, "Are you licensed to prostitute in the blue sector?"

When you come in, and get that SIC jammed into the back of your head, they should ask you what your going to do for Withmore. Somehow (not sure yet), you rectify a work permit for your profession and are licensed to do that.

Sure, this costs chyen, probably different for different professions. Maybe its determined in char-gen. :stoner:

The end result is a society of managed employment, something that can be number crunched by those licensed to crunch numbers.

Am I off the mark?

By Johnny at Oct 26, 2004, 10:16 PM | 0
It sounds like a functional concept, though it may need some tweeking… mainly from my stand point the largest single problem is this:

 Players (newbies) are prone to entering the game without a defined history. Without a defined history how are they going to ever know what to say as 'employment'?

Does this mean that we have to hold new players in the chargen state until they have an approved history? I for one have no problem with this personally, but there may be some issues in terms of player bail-out/lack of reqruitment.

What about the vast majority of players who come from an underdog environment, and are full time proffessional criminals, more or less? They have no real work history, what do they say?

'General Worker'?
'Manual Labour'?
'Unclassified Labour'?

Is there an option to 'report to the Hall of Justice at a later date for employment liscencing?' for those who are undefined?

What about players that don't get the SIC implant, I would assume they dodge the question? And what happens when they get an implant later? Or not? Or busted by a Judge or TERRA?

I think the concept opens some interesting avenues...just lotsa questions about the entire thing that should be looked at.

What do others think?

By Iga at Oct 26, 2004, 11:29 PM | 0
I tend to agree with Iga on the hystory before getting thru the gates, lots of M** do that, also a character could have the ability to chose to either start corpie or start mixer.

I say that because I've seen numerous characters that are made to be a corpie and end up being a mugger of the mix, just because they can't pay-up for the life standarts or even don't manage to spell it out on their history that they would be a corpie if they had the chance.

I mean not an auto-corpie setter, but just a heads up to the GMs so they can look at their history like : "Is this corpie good?" and "Is this mixer good?"

But on the permit thing, having a permit doesn't imply that there will be actually a job for them, you know? As there is a bit of lack on the corpie market of jobs, and that will lead a newbie to go down to the mix in order to find an income.

*blinks* I might have gone out of path there…

By Xeethot at Oct 27, 2004, 6:04 AM | 0
What I did, is this. I talked to the GM's/Admins before I let my last guy go. Then, when my new one came around, I waited outside the gates, did my history, and after it was approved, walked through the gates, got the implant, then they beemed me up to Neo trans with material and chy, Woot. easy.
By Biohazard at Oct 27, 2004, 12:43 PM | 0
I always thought even though we're the "exceptional" 2% regardless of what we're capable we are all the same in the eyes of the council. We buy things to survive. Therefore we support the economy. The longer we survive the more we buy and if you live in the mix odd are you won't last long without a clone therefore feeding the system.

See what I'm saying?

No matter what if you live in withmore your feeding the corporations, there is no alternative. The council has a monopoly on everyone's lives.

Work permits would be cool though, perhaps even diffrent degree's of citizenship. Combined with a unemployment office that would really help people get jobs. But this might be too much help for players. I really enjoy the struggle involved in survival, you either are unemployed or have a job that underpays. You have to bust your ass to make decent cash.

Anyway, I'm off on a total tangent but I think that if the council is closely monitoring immigration it'd be through some weird ass mathamatical algorithm combined with corporate desires. They're not gonna handpick every single immi, but certaintly a few.

Enjoy making sense of this. :)

By ReeferMadness at Oct 27, 2004, 4:35 PM | 0
Quote: from Johnny on 1:16 am on Oct. 27, 2004[br]2080 - Japan's most important tidal wall breaks and most of downtown Osaka is flooded in thirty feet of water. Withmore City, known as the 'dome' to the world, closes its doors to 98% of all immigrants. Life in the dome goes on…

So ... your all like, that 2%.

Entering into a corporate super-arcology.

A corporate culture where the only people of value are those who provide value ... to the bottom line. Everyone is supposed to work. Everyone is supposed to have value.

Why … if your all in this 2% of immigrants that are accepted, would they let you in without them knowing you'll be able to get work, provide that value.

I should get to the meat of the idea ...

Work permits, or licenses for specific lines of work. Not required in some places of course, but absolutely important in others.

Judge Cock Sure roughs up Lucy, asking, "Are you licensed to prostitute in the blue sector?"

When you come in, and get that SIC jammed into the back of your head, they should ask you what your going to do for Withmore. Somehow (not sure yet), you rectify a work permit for your profession and are licensed to do that.

Sure, this costs chyen, probably different for different professions. Maybe its determined in char-gen. :stoner:

The end result is a society of managed employment, something that can be number crunched by those licensed to crunch numbers.

Am I off the mark?

What? use layman's terms please

[Johnny says only fucktards quote the whole post.]

By Tool at Oct 27, 2004, 7:41 PM | 0
Since I've started playing here, i've noticed a trend.  You don't usualy get just -one- newbie.  One person finds the dome, and then they tell there friends.  Sometimes you get about 2-3 soemtimes 4-6 of them.. Out of all of them, maybe one or two stays.

I think requiring an aproved history before entering sucks.  During some downtime on SD I decided to check out another MOO, just to try and get my RP fix, and I sware to god, it took me a -MONTH- a freaking -MONTH- to get my character aproved, and it's not because his history was bad.  His history got aproved on the first try.  I emailed and xhelp'd a few times, just to see if I could get the ball rolling, and it helped, but its still took a freaking month.  I'm not blaming the admin there, i'm just trying to say that it takes admin a while to find the time for things like that.

I personal think the admin have more important things to do then knowing they -have- to approve this character history -before- they can start playing.  

Also, lets be honest.. If we do that, then were going to cut the incomming new players down dramaticly.  For every ten new players we get now, we would probably get one.  I don't see it as helping the game all that much.  I agree with the idea of having something -in- game, like at the HOJ, a place you can go and apply for a work permit in a certain area, or get help finding a job.  Not a good job, just some crap wage slave job that doesn't really pay the bills.

By Nemisis at Oct 27, 2004, 10:35 PM | 0
Tool said:
What? use layman's terms please

He said, "Your ugly, and your mother dresses you funny."

I don't think a history is a pre-requisite of a work permit. People can choose 'unskilled labor' if they really want.

It would be very necessary to be able to change your profession. Of couse it would cost money, but this takes us into another discussion, while we're talking about char-gen: Money in char-gen.

I'm of the mind that people should get an OOC opertunity to equip their character. Perhaps a 'package deal', costing different amounts of resources.

People could choose to go with the 'mixer package'… which offers you resources to buy a skilled or unskilled labor work permit, a fair amount of skill and stat points, and a bit of money to buy low to mid level clothing and/or (legal) weapons and other mixer gear. These people would start on Red, coming out of the Immigration gates. Spending too much money in one area would leave you short in other areas (too many stats/skills == little to no gear).

Or you could choose the corpie package which gave you more resources, but the work-permits would be proportionately more expensive with choise of blue or white collar style work permits (white costing more than blue), and corpie style clothing and gear (e-notes, cars, etc).

I bet you could do it all in an IC way to: The process of immigration... make it room based where the computer is scanning you or prompting you for answers... scanning your stats (which you enter) or asking you what items your declaring (buying your gear).

Am I out on a limb here, or could you see it?

-Kevlar

By Kevlar at Oct 27, 2004, 10:59 PM | 0
I definitly see that.  I'd like to see people come out of char-gen a bit more equiped to deal with life.  I mean, not everyone just up and decided to immigrant to withmore solely because they didn't have anythere where there were before.  

Also, I think it would be better not to be able to just /mark/ someone as a newb because of there clothing/lack of anything in terms of gear.

It would make it easier to jump right into/create some RP, instead of doing the 'i need to find work, please give me work, can i have work, where can i find work, 'work' 'work' 'work' 'work' 'idle' 'work' 'scanout' 'count all 112 chyen you made in an HOUR', 'go to the drome now that you can afford a  drink, and hope people are there to rp with now that you can pretend to have money and not just stand around begging for work or free drinks'….thing.

By Nemisis at Oct 27, 2004, 11:05 PM | 0
It would make it easier to jump right into/create some RP, instead of doing the 'i need to find work, please give me work, can i have work, where can i find work, 'work' 'work' 'work' 'work' 'idle' 'work' 'scanout' 'count all 112 chyen you made in an HOUR', 'go to the drome now that you can afford a  drink, and hope people are there to rp with now that you can pretend to have money and not just stand around begging for work or free drinks'….thing.

You won't get any argument from me that the 'work' 'work' 'work' thing is an idea who's time has passed. In it's defence, it worked (pun intended) very well for many years as a place to find RP. We've been exploring other options with varying degrees of success.

-Kevlar

By Kevlar at Oct 27, 2004, 11:16 PM | 0
I haven't had one job yet that makes me "work", and frankly they've been the best. Maybe more of those jobs should be made openly available?
By ReeferMadness at Oct 28, 2004, 2:52 PM | 0
I think there should be some skills you can come out of chargen and use to make money immeditly.  I mean..  thievery is cool.. but you need good /stats/ to be able to really do it.  Same with stealth, and trading.  

It just seems that the oldbies/midbies can make alot of money because there @stats support them.

I'm not saying there aren't IC ways of making money that have nothing to do with stats, or skills.  Theres always RP to get cash.  But what I am saying is, that it seems like its alot easier for older characters to make money -without- role playing at all.  I don't have a real problem with that.. i just think it would be better for the newbs to be making the money.. so they can actuly start getting stuff for there character and developing habits and shit.

Sure, the oldbies can send them on missions and stuff, and thats cool.. But it doesn't really support the economy.  I mean, ICly, even someone who is rich on RED, has -nothing- compared to topsiders, so why would they spend money to have someone else do something, when they could just do it for free themselves, and make -sure- it gets done correctly.

I'd just like to see more IC ways for newbs to make money , and I figure the oldbies wont have to do what the newbs do, because the newbs will probably be spending there money on services the oldbies offer, or gear the oldbies got, and shit like that.  Just my opinion.

By Nemisis at Oct 28, 2004, 6:04 PM | 0
I agree I mean I understrand that this world is not meant to have things just be handed to you. But one of my characters setup his stats got everything rolling and then one day his money ran out he had no more stuff it would take him two hours to get the money for one night. It just makes it damn near impossible without a good oldbie friend to help you out.

Say you move to a new city and you are trying to make money, the last thing your gonna do is go work in a factory for shit pay. I think that maybe if they just raised the pay on shinohara per hour that would solve a lot.

and if working at the factory isnt enugh then perhaps they should invest in a business of there own or something like that. Because you want to give them a chance but not hand it to them, so in my opnion raise the pay at the factory.

By Nayr at Oct 28, 2004, 6:25 PM | 0
As of late, I haven't been seeing that many people "working". There is a growing trend of hustlers, people who just find something to do whether its sell drugs, deliver pizza, etc. It seems that as long as there are player with a stable source of chy to support players without a stable source of chy things even out pretty nicely.
By ReeferMadness at Jan 14, 2005, 8:36 PM | 0
Three points -

1. Work Permits - I think this is a fantastic idea, and would give new characters at least a beginning direction.  Should there be certain stat reqs for certain jobs (construction requires above avg str, etc.)?  I think the starting jobs could be a good springboard for other, more dubious lines of work, but the biggest blank I have is ideas for what these jobs could be.

2. SHI - I agree that starting out is tough money-wise, but that's partly what the coffins are for - to even that out.  I don't think raising the wages at SHI would do anything good, personally.  I have, in the past, just worked there all day while I was at work IRL, which helped me get some starting cash, but other than that I think it's a real RP drain to have to work, work, work.

3. History - I think it would not be a bad idea to have history approval preceed even the basics of CharGen (M/F, name, etc.).  I have had situations where I went through CharGen when my history was just an outline, then as I fleshed things out, realized I should have distributed stats/skills differently to really get at the character I was making.  Without a fully written history, you can't (or shouldn't) do much IC anyway, so I think this makes sense.

Just my 2 chy…

By n8n at Jan 15, 2005, 7:52 AM | 0
I like the main concept of this thread. My concern lies with having an approved history before being released from chargen. Most new players don't have a good feel for the game, whether they be new to the theme, M**'ing, or new to being an educated person. I don't know if the experience as a guest or the help files, etc. can give a newbie a clear view on what it is their character may be able to do in the game.

As well, as Nemisis said, it sometimes takes awhile for GMs to get to histories. Does a player get released from chargen only after having an approved history? This could take some time and possibly deter new players.

I'm in agreement with Kevlar's post about not necessarily needing a history as a pre-req for work. Although a person's history should be reflecting their stats and skills, which would let them do certain jobs. Point is that just because they may have been a doctor outside Withmore, doesn't mean they can't do manual labour when they first arrive.

Not sure if I made any sense here… more sleep is needed.

By FireStorm at Jan 15, 2005, 11:52 AM | 0

I think there should be some skills you can come out of chargen and use to make money immeditly.  I mean..  thievery is cool.. but you need good /stats/ to be able to really do it.  Same with stealth, and trading.

I agree with you and we've been working at it.

Ideally, you'd be able to earn a living with your intellect skills  doing -something- in your related field, something we're slowly getting into the game.

By Johnny at Jan 15, 2005, 4:11 PM | 0
I like what FireStorm said about comming out of Chargen with an unaproved/not written history (because people really dont know what to expect/expect the wrong things when they start to play the game) and being able to do manual labor.  Personaly I think being able to only -do- manual labor will be an excellent incentive to write a great history, as opposed to what we have going now, which is write a history whenever, and about whatever because you might want to work at SHI at some point along the line.

We all know that the best money is on the biz you make on you own, and I've seen new characters, straight out of chargen with no history - take on/scam/make big money off established characters, no problem.

By Nemisis at Jan 15, 2005, 9:21 PM | 0
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