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Improved eject for cab players
Equality for all!

I think it would be neat if PC's in cabby roles could eject passengers in the BACK seat the same way NPC cab drivers do.

It doesn't make sense for a driver to place themselves in harms way by getting into the back of a cab and attempting to boot a uncooperative fare. Thoughts?

I thought that you could 'BOOT' people in the backseat out?

The only way you can attempt to boot a fare is to get in the back of the cab with them and forcibly throw them out.

I actually think that it is fine the way it is. If anything I'd prefer it if NPC taxi drivers would get out of the cab, get into the back and boot the player. Make it more like the PC experience. But I understand why it's not.

To be honest, my limited experience with cars in SD have left me with the feeling that they are overpowered (of course I have VERY limited experience with them). I'd rather not make the driver of a taxi or other vehicle yet harder to touch.

How are cars powerful? If NPC taxi drivers can boot out fares that don't pay then PC's in a service role should be able to do the same. I'm not implying every single car should get this feature now.

I don't see NPC's going through extra work/hassle to boot out a fare who won't pay/leave when it's as simple as hitting the eject button. That's extra coding when code I'm asking for already exists. All I'm asking is that it be implemented for PC cabs too.

Oh, it's 2093:

I agree with Grey. Vehicles and taxi's in particular are rather overpowered. NPC cabs have an eject function to prevent player abuse. PC cabs lack it for the precise same reason. It's already easy to trap someone regardless of there skills/stats as a PC cabbie and encouraging them to utilize another PC/NPC to assist with backseat shenanigans seems worthwhile.

The eject function PC's have isn't to prevent abuse, it's to kick out fares who don't pay. Why shouldn't cabby PC's get this? I could argue that an eject feature would also lead to more RP. *wink wink*

Compare the risk involved in being a Taxi driver with other jobs. Even as it stands (no back seat eject option) driving a taxi is arguably safer than tending bar, delivering pizza, delivering crates, factory work, playing a medic or doctor. Most every other job involves you being in the same accessible space as your customer. This puts you at risk. Not so much with taxis as I have gathered.

Beyond that look at the power a character gives a taxi driver. They get in the back of a cab and they are largely at the whim of that taxi driver. They get locked in. They can't really DO anything to my knowledge until the doors are unlocked. Except yell and feed the driver more chy.

All this would do is allow a weak character to override a more powerful character. You can still create RP. If a character won't pay, your character gets in their face. Your character threatens, beats and whatever else. But in a way that puts them at some level of risk. Maybe you get your ass kicked and now you avoid driving for them ever again. Maybe you kick their ass and now they have a way to get revenge. I don't see how removing most all risk from the driver increases RP...

Again, this is all based on my very limited experience with taxis and other vehicles.

Oh... And ReeferMadness's idea about recruiting other players is awesome. Find a combat oriented player with the stats needed to forcibly eject and beat down a non-paying fare. Someone refuses to pay, call your goon and have then come over and deal with it. More RP for all!

So the argument that PC cabbies should not get an automated fare ejection system that NPC's have is...it's not fair? This is Sindome. It's not a fair game.

Then again, if a fare does not want to pay, I can think of plenty of creative ways to ensure they regret their poor life choices. This is why we should be able to hit people with vehicles.

a change like this would make it so that no one ever used a cab again lol

Vehicles are OP.

Let's not make them more OP.

How are vehicles OP when they're expensive?

The price isn't much of a barrier for what vehicles do.

The barrier for becoming a cab driver is nonexistent.

the ideas forum was a mistake

Maybe there should be a bigger barrier for being a cabbie then? Like having to pay for fuel, etc. I don't know.

Most people with vehicles (other than cabbies) are corpies, and they don't TEND to go on a killing spree, because of the consequences that would follow.

What's your point, Evie? The whole thread has derailed from its original purpose. This feature would be overpowered beyond realism, there also needs to be balancing in the game. When you try to eject someone in the front seats, there are actual stats dice rolls to determine your success or failure, the same should be for back seat ejecting: in other words, leave it as it is.

Alright, forget about it. Just had some thoughts about what people were saying and thought I'd share them.

Also, I don't think the ideas forum was a mistake, Vera. I just think as long as it stays civilized and polite, there'll be few problems. It's just ideas, after all.

This has been added due to it being needed for NPCs taking taxis. BE AWARE. Your taxi driver could totally fuck you over :)

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/dispatcher--npcs-taking-taxis-317/#last

Yikes, better tip well, chums.

Time to never use a taxi again.

I mean, it's not really any different than it was before. If a PC wanted to send you to an ambush they could just park, unlock the doors, let 52 gangers pile in and eject you. All this does is allow a PC the same access to coded commands as NPCs have ;)

Drive into an express tube, eject your enemy into the tube, and drive away. Or do it in deep badlands.

Can you be ejected in mid-air? o_o

If and when this is added to Skyfox cabs, it would only work if the cab was parked on the ground. No ejecting people while flying!

"I mean, it's not really any different than it was before. If a PC wanted to send you to an ambush they could just park, unlock the doors, let 52 gangers pile in and eject you."

That would require the cooperation of 52 gangers and they'd have to be pretty strong gangers. Now an immy can dump anyone wherever.

Sure. And then they don't get paid. Do you think taxi drivers are so flush with cash that they can just dump people willing to pay them money? And like, if a mixer wants to pay a chex taxi driver to dump a corpie in the Mix, which would be hilarious, themely, and totally CP-- and then the corpie character complains to chex and the PC is fired from their job for endangering a corpies life-- what about that is not completely in keeping with our theme?

I can understand that this change means you aren't as 'safe' in a taxi driven by a PC as you were before, but ask yourself this question, did you feel safe because if Sindome was real life and you were in that actual situation you'd feel safe, or did you feel safe because you OOCly knew the code protected you to a degree?

I feel that the previous system, wherein someone had to be bigger and stronger than me to force me out of a cab, was more fair as it involved checks against things my character may or may not be good at IC. My character might determine that they are capable enough that they can take that risk.

Now any idiot can do it with no skill check involved. That seems a little backwards to me.

To be fair, Vera. A cab driver can just head into the garage in Red and leave you there if you refuse to leave, then use another cab. Not much of a difference here.

*more fair and more themely, I should say.

Locking people up with no way for them to escape is against the rules.

Yes, but it's realistic for your character to be afraid of the idea of being locked up in the dark inside a cab and slowly die of starvation with nothing to do, and leave the cab if threatened with such thing.

And I would argue that the previous system already incorporated exactly this, it was just only available to NPCs. And as NPCs are characters, and PCs are characters, and we treat them the same... the same rules should apply.

I think it's completely realistic that a service you are opting to use, have the ability to forcibly eject you, if the person doing the ejecting is willing to accept the IC consequences. I'm sorry ya don't like the change, but if you don't want to take the IC risk, your character can make that determination and take a different mode of transportation.

I think when this has had time to percolate you will see that it didn't really change much for you other than your character having to consider the IC ramifications of putting themself in a situation where they give up a measure of control in exchange for gaining a measure of comfort.

I'm not talking about some baka who doesn't want to get out of the cab and is being annoying. I'm talking about Seven Ecks with a five start wanted rating getting into my cab and I'm a week old immy so for laughs I drive him up to the Hall of Justice and I don't care if I die in the ensuing gunfight because I have nothing.

Yes, that'd be pretty crummy OOC behavior on my part, but I deal with people doing crap like that constantly.

It is also not against the rules to lock someone up or confine them. It's against our current policies to do this for an extended period of time, without prior roleplay or prior GM approval. But, that is besides the point, as it does not relate to what we are currently discussing.

@Vera No, that would not be crummy OOCly. It would be completely themely. Why wouldn't it? A wanted person taking a cab is taking a big risk ALREADY. If you think the GMs won't puppet that driver and drive them to the HOJ, or hold their ass for ransom you are mistaken. We can, will, and have, done that in the past.

In fact, it's happened to Seven Ecks twice.

Not just Seven Ecks! XD

Taxi cabs aren't safe and trapping someone until you can bring the authorities to cash out on them, or your chummers to beat the brakes off of them, isn't a bad thing unless you are on the bad end of it!

To me it seems like there was a perception where NPC taxi drivers were automatic machines without purposes rather than drive point A to point B. Just like PCs, if you have a bounty on your head and this NPC wants to fuck you over, they WILL. It has happened and it is absolutely hilarious and themely. You are a badass solo and a shit immy fucks you over, man, I'd be pretty fucking flattered by that immy, and I'd kick myself for allowing myself to be put in that situation. I agree fully with Slither, this is a great change.

The more time I spend on the forums, the more I realize this game seems rife with instant kill conditions that don't really take into account the stats or skills of my character in any fashion, despite the fact that IC I can basically reach anime demi-god levels of skill. I'm probably just going to avoid taking a cab at all costs now.

locking someone in a cab isn't an instant kill condition

Yes, @Ash, I'm not following the conclusion that ejecting someone from a cab is an 'instant kill' situation. You just get dumped out onto the street. And locking someone in a cab and taking them someone to be attacked is... themely. It could happen IRL. But when you're attacked, you'd have the typical stat/skill rolls. Hell if someone locked me in a cab I'd be HOPING they would eject me into the street so I could hide or sneak away before they were able to get out of their cab and attack me.

Also, yes, the game does have some situations where you might be able to ICly plot and plan and trick a stronger character into a situation where they put themself at risk of being killed without having a chance to fight back. Cyberdocs have had this ability for 15 years or more. It hasn't thrown the game completely out of balance. It's themely. Being the strongest character and a super ninja bad ass doesn't mean that your character can't make a mistake or be maneuvered into a situation where another character has negated the advantage they have of being a ninja bad ass.

Can't you just put up a disguise while you take a taxi? You guys can be overcomplicated sometimes. You're topside? Take IC measured like looking at your driver's face. Get a bodyguard or corpsec to get you around. Taxis are unsafe and for the scum, get an aerocab or your own car instead.

The low-level corpie dough girls/boys who can't afford better transportation or fight just have another reason to be afraid and save up for a car now, I guess. XD

@BeepBoop did bring up an interesting point earlier though, what is the thoughts on ejecting someone in the express tubes? Because that, like locking someone in a secluded room, has the potential to hard-stop them from playing the game for a while.

Of course, doing any of this has the potential to completely ruin your reputation as a cabbie and possibly cost you your job, so I don't imagine people going too crazy with this.

Ejecting someone in an express tube doesn't violate our rules. However, express tubes have a 'hail' verb you can use to hail a taxi, and you can also reach out to other characters, or even the WJF to give you aide. It's an IC situation, and you can handle it ICly. If you don't 'move' IE: you don't try to walk down the express tube and you just RP sticking to the edge of the tube without moving from room to room, you aren't going to get hit by a car.

@Slither I understand, thanks for clarifying. ^^

What if you eject somebody in badlands though? They can't call for help on SIC, maybe if they got a phone though, hmm..

if a cab's in the badlands, that's a whole other set of problems for the driver