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Making Cyberlimbs Relevant
I got mad chrome, chum.

Branching this off into a separate discussion.

Cyberlegs -

* Very slight bonus to dodge per leg

* Jump up 1 unit with two legs (set bonus)

Cyberarms -

* Very slight bonus to climbing success per arm

* Slight bonus to grapple contests when victim resists

...etc.

How's this sound to you guys? Not enough to warrant giving up an arm and a leg, so to speak, but enough to make it worthwhile to purchase one when you happen to lose one, no?

I honestly prefer to go the other direction. I'd rather have cyberarms and legs that do squat but have a lot of flexibility in appearance. Though I do appreciate that you avoided the 'Cyber arm make Bob strong!' approach. I'd rather see any of the ideas here than that. :)

Cyber arm DO make Bob strong, though.

I like style over substance as much as everyone else, but I don't like the idea of 'oh i have a rusty cyberarm because I'm a mixer and it fits'. I see what you mean, and I ran into the exact same problem before (wanted certain augmentations for a character purely for aesthetics, even if I had an IC reason) and it couldn't be done easily despite being a simple thing. But I think the ideal solution is both style and substance. You should be able to customize your cyberlimbs (and other hardware) but they should very much serve a purpose. You can already make minor/cosmetic cyberware alterations in your nudes (though it'd be nice if cyberneticists did these, similar to tattoos, one day we'll have clean, formatted nudes... And everyone will rejoice).

As for the OP suggestions themselves, I like them but I think those still come nowhere near close to making up for huge cost of having two cyberlimbs. Ideally for me, I want to cater less to the 'oh i had my arm chopped off and need a replacement' and more to the 'I want to enhance my capabilities for my chosen archetype, and see how far I can take it before PDS stops me'. We already have people IRL with cybernetic limb replacements today. Cyberpunk is people WILLINGLY altering their bodies for form or function.

For the record, I do think the (purely heresay) PDS load plus cost of cyberlimbs for no actual benefit is a bit much. It's about to the point where it dares players to RP out the consequences of their actions rather than suicide, but I don't think that should be the norm.

I think a lot of people would agree that limb replacement is very cyberpunk. Voluntary, I'd personally argue would be an extreme subset. Like people with hundreds of piercings vs the typical 2-12. It should be a viable, cost effective alternative in this day and age. Lab grown limbs should be the expensive counterparts for corporates looking to avoid looking 'garish' when they lose limbs.

So... small benefits to cyberlimbs... lower the cost and probably reassess the PDS load to make things functional for characters without altogether negating the fact that they're less human, and potentially create lab grown flesh and bone limbs or less obvious/more advanced cyberlimbs for corporates to avoid the 'unseemly' aspect associated with them.

Thoughts?

The PDS and the pricetags do make sense, what is lacking is the functionality which just isn't there.

It could be something as simple as 'improved parkour' for legs or 'more inventory space' for arms, or whatever, etc. Some functionality would be nice, also split up arms into hands and legs into feet for cheaper alternatives.

Over the years this has been brought up, but there seemed to be little interest in developing it further from the staff's side.

Unless there's a clear thematic indicator somewhere of what PDS means, I don't know that it is clear that PDS is justified. Cyberlimbs are fundamentally pretty self contained machines -- unlike say a skillsoft or flashboost, a case could be made that most of the mechanical heavy lifting in a cyberlimb takes place inside the limb, with relatively few connections to a neural processor. A flashboost, by contrast, takes a huge amount of wiring to all of your nerves.

To be honest, though, I don't think that PDS is graded on some in game metric. Integrated weapons have pretty high PDS costs and are among the most simple cyberware in operation. PDS isn't a real thing -- it's a storytelling tool designed to create RP in terms of outbreaks and to balance people from having too much chrome.

I don't really know much about cyber limbs or the mechanics surrounding them, but I'd love to see someone with cyber arms be able to block more with their arms (possibly damaging the limb itself) as well as a bonus to unarmed physical attacks. Getting punched with a cyber fist should probably hurt more than a flesh and bone one. Plus cyber boxing seems cool as hell.

As far as the PDS added by cyber limbs, I feel that makes sense (based on my possibly flawed understanding of PDS) in so far as your body being more not-your-body than your-body.

I am in strong agreement with @goblinfemme's suggestion to enable "cyberlimb blocking" such that people can avoid damage, or take significantly less damage when fighting "unarmed" versus weapons.

I am not sure what the balance implications of that are, but it seems worth serious consideration at least.

Defensive cyber? Yes please.
I hadn't thought about it, but cyberlimbs allowing hand to hand users (both MA and Brawling) to block without using weapons would be excellent. They'd still be at a disadvantage against a weapon wielder, so it's not like it'd be unbalanced.

Of course, it would still be pointless if cyberlimbs remain huge PDS sinks as they are now.

We aren't making an unstrippable shield without the consequential PDS hit.

(Edited by Slither at 12:26 pm on 1/7/2021)

could just reduce the pds hit of standard cyberarms, but make mods on top of these arms such as extra defensive capabilities have the actual pds hit
If there were cheaper cybernetic limbs and pricier ones, it would all fit very well into the different social statuses. More benefit means more cost both money-wise and PDS-wise. And there you'd have a balance.
The PDS on limbs has already been artificially reduced from what the calculations say it should be.
Johnny. Last I recall, there is chrome now that provides that same unbreakable shield suggested here AND acts as a weapon AND has less PDS load than limbs.

You'd be wrong, but thanks for playing the game where players think they know the numbers?
Getting punched with a cyber fist should probably hurt more than a flesh and bone one.

That idea's so good that ... Well, find out IC.

I apologize.
Getting back to the topic of cyberware and dealing with weapon wielding attackers, I don't think anyone is asking for some sort of invulnerability shield.

It would be a cool little perk of a cyberlimb if an attacks against the limb's hit location were less severe than the attack would be against a normal, flesh limb.