More Corporate Branding In The Mix

Slither just put up a post on the cube idea thread which I think is deserving of being spun off to its own thread, where he commented that the "service mixer" divide is a little artificial because most every job in Red ultimately feeds back to a mega-corp.

I think we should brand this a lot more -- instead of FullerMed it should be Saedor-Krupp FullerMed (I have no idea what corporation actually owns FullerMed). It should be the Ashlin Crown Mallplex, brought to you NLM Commercial Development.

Having more ubiquitous branding certainly feels very CP -- think about how much of a role branding played in Gibson's pattern recognition trilogy -- and it would I think give more visible ammunition both to IC arguments that the Mix and the corps are co-dependent and more targets for anti-corporate rage in the Mix.

By Pavane at Nov 7, 2020 9:22 AM

+1. Doesn't have to be obvious megacorps, but I do think having little hints at owners or sponsors or whatever is something that has been lacking in various ways IC in the last few years.

By Dawnshot at Nov 7, 2020 9:24 AM

We're already having a severe problem getting anyone to play mix revolutionary. This seems like it would be very harmful.

By Necronex666 at Nov 7, 2020 9:24 AM

That's an interesting observation, Necronex. I feel like 'mix revolutionary' is the default position right now.

By Pavane at Nov 7, 2020 10:20 AM

If you think that, Necronex, you are sorely wrong and very unaware of IC events.

By svetlana at Nov 7, 2020 10:21 AM

It should be hard to get Mix revolutionaries. You're fighting against the essence of the world if you fight against corporations.

By Wonderland at Nov 7, 2020 10:23 AM

This seems like it would be very harmful.

Questions, Really? How?

Observation, that doesn't seem to follow from the first part of your post.

Theme cop: It's not like Mix Revolutionary is an obligatory role. Name one from lore. If you can, chances are 100% that they were really working some angle and not selflessly freedomfighting.

By beandip at Nov 7, 2020 10:23 AM

I would avoid assuming on either side on the revolutionary issue.

As for the main topic, we've talked about having more branded generic clothes, most stores are actually NOT megacorp owned in a lot of the mix, it's their products that are, and you'll see a lot of items have megacorp branding as is.

All that being said I'm not opposed to more branding around in ways that match the lore and feel CP and themely.

By Blinder at Nov 7, 2020 10:24 AM

I don't think we're looking at the same factors, but I also can't argue any points here. Point I was making is that this could have the reverse of the effect you want and make the mix more comfortable with corporate things.

Though I suppose I could say that we don't really see much of this revolutionary action topside, at least not by PCs.

By Necronex666 at Nov 7, 2020 10:27 AM

Again. Don't assume stuff about what's going on in the game. You have no idea.

By svetlana at Nov 7, 2020 10:28 AM

Your idea of revolutionary may be different from others', Necronex.

By HolyChrome at Nov 7, 2020 10:28 AM

Playing revolutionary really is playing to lose. In the best sense.

"Hard to get people" to do it? You don't get them to, they're called to it.

You know what would happen if you DID "get someone" to do it? It wouldn't meet their expectations and they'd become bitter and ragequit.

By beandip at Nov 7, 2020 10:28 AM

If you want a thread about playing a revolutionary make one, for now, talk about the topic on hand peoples.

By Blinder at Nov 7, 2020 10:29 AM

Propaganda. Ideology. Calls to action. There are lots of ways to 'get people' riled up about things. Don't assume.

By svetlana at Nov 7, 2020 10:29 AM

People are getting sore and I've actively played a PC that was involved in the very same thing you're accusing me of knowing nothing about. No I don't know about everything that's going on in the game, but I'm not clueless either. Gonna let it rest there before you guys get more heated.

By Necronex666 at Nov 7, 2020 10:29 AM

I'm not sure I'm interested in any particular effect, to be honest -- I don't know if I think the Mix needs more revolutionaries or if the Mix needs more corporatism. What I do think is that the world of Red right now feels completely separate from the corporate world, maybe akin to the above and below in Alita, and it seems as if theme suggests that Red serves its corporate masters rather than just being scavengers living on corporate discards. Right now, from the branding, you would think Red is a completely different world.

Now of course the economy is much more complex than that, and in fact huge amounts of topside money drive the Mix economy, but walking around on Red you wouldn't think that the 80 million people down below are cramming into the tubes to commute to Gold or thronging to work in corporate factories.

By Pavane at Nov 7, 2020 10:32 AM

I think it would be nice if it was more publicly known what products are made by who, and what subsidiaries are owned by what corporations. There's a lot of generic items that could easily have logos slapped on them, as well- there are branded specialist items available, but generally the majority of the things you own in SD aren't going to have one of the main x amount (10 or so?) major corporations in the lore.

By Wonderland at Nov 7, 2020 10:34 AM

from the branding, you would think Red is a completely different world.

There are many deeply themeful reasons why this appearance makes sense.

you wouldn't think that the 80 million people down below are cramming into the tubes to commute to Gold or thronging to work in corporate factories.

They're not. Most of them are desperately unemployed or profitably criminal.

I agree, more visible and accessible overlap and interactions between the populations would be fun and interesting. Slapping names on signs doesn't change that in any way.

By beandip at Nov 7, 2020 10:35 AM

Let's circle back to Blinder's post about starting another thread involving deeper discussion of revolutionaries as well. If you're going to continue replying to previous posts concerning it, start a thread.

As far as more branding, please yes. Showcase just how pervasive the corps are, and how much you should hate them.

By HolyChrome at Nov 7, 2020 10:36 AM

I don't really like the idea of more corporate branding in the Mix. I feel like the oppression we constantly get on the SIC from Corporate PCs mixed in with the obvious disparity between living conditions, and other factors that is really in a good spot.

Anything further and it's just going to be increasingly annoying to play a Mixer who desires to push against the Status Quo, especially given recent events, making it even more corporate in the Mix in my opinion would further enhance the "why bother" and "never try it again." memes to a Nth degree.

I think this could be chalked up to if it's not broke don't fix it.

By Andromeda at Nov 7, 2020 10:36 AM

I don't think we need another discussion about it HolyChrome. I think this would be better things for the characters in this archetype to discuss amongst themselves ICly.

By svetlana at Nov 7, 2020 10:38 AM

On Topic:

We have this a little and I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of it. But I think that the current state makes sense. The corps notice that the mix tends to pride itself on being 'free' and having their own style. So they create subsidiaries that are more palatable as it gets them more money. I still wouldn't mind seeing a bit more corporate heavy branding as it really is very CyberPunk but it doesn't have to be the dial turned to 100 overnight.

Slightly Off Topic:

One think I that I think really helps avoid people getting upset or feel defensive or insulted is to avoid 'you language' and to try and use 'I language'. instead of, "You have no clue - all mixers are revolutionaries" maybe try "It feels to me like most mixers are super anti-corp and more on the revolutionary end of the spectrum than not". In my experience, "I language" can really do a lot to help keep things civil.

By Grey0 at Nov 7, 2020 10:38 AM

Syndicates.

They're corporate.

Maybe time to act like it.

That is all.

By PCow at Nov 7, 2020 10:43 AM

Consider the meantime to defacement, theft or both a corporate sign would have in the mix, hehe. Lets make it possible to deface the posters first and then we can put them up for you to fuck up.

By Johnny at Nov 7, 2020 10:47 AM

I am a fan of the Gibson-Ellisian technique of using brands to develop a sense of time and place and realness (or unrealness) in prose that can otherwise be sterile.

My sense has always been that the branding and corporatist aesthetics developed by builders are some of the real highlights about the game world. Brand identities are really tangible and help increase the scale of the world as felt.

By 0x1mm at Nov 7, 2020 10:49 AM

I think there is also something that should be touched on in this discussion.

Corpies vs Corps.

Corps (as singular entity) make your characters go to things. You like that SHI construction helmet and that WAI bodysuit as your goto armor? You make tailored clothes out of DynaFiber because its the best fabric available? You can't be anti-corporate in the mix, regardless of status.

Corpies - Those who work there. Who can make more than you, have more privelages, aren't starving, usually aren't being targetted or stolen from in their sleep. That is envy, be that of rights or money or fame or power or whatever. That is what anti-corporate, for what I'm mostly seeing in this discussion, is what people mean.

More corporate branding should be included around the Mix and game in general. Outside of tailors and a handful of other creative professions, 99% of what you live in, wear, buy, eat, and use are corporate copyrighted products. You see it now in the world, with copyrighted corn stocks and Beyond burgers and whatever else. Your character lives in a corporation itself - Withmore Hope Inc. If you wanted to be anti-corporation, you wouldn't live in Withmore.

By Dawnshot at Nov 7, 2020 10:50 AM

Dawnshot,

It's possible to be against something but also forced to use the products that society puts in front of you, especially in a game where the things available to you are decided by game developers, and currently, there is no choice to just live outside Withmore if you want to roleplay, ever, or that is at least the impression that's been given to me when I've asked about places outside of Withmore ICly.

Respectfully, I think you're making a philosophical point that may be a little lost when applying it to a game.

By Andromeda at Nov 7, 2020 10:54 AM

I think you folks are missing the trees for the forest. Megacorp brands go on EXPENSIVE and HIGH-END shit. Red Sector gets Du-Wear, Black Deth, Soyanuts, etc. Watered down, shitty, subsidiary brands are ubiquitous to Red Sector. The good Megacorp shit? You gotta pay for that, chummer.

By ReeferMadness at Nov 7, 2020 10:54 AM

Poorly stated and attacked point aside. There is already corp branding in certain places in the mix and those are mostly left alone. What I'm against is the idea that well known businesses like FullerMed should be rebranded to where they're recognizable as corporate entities.

What I'm not against would be the addition of new, albeit lesser known places or even posters as other posts have mentioned. If it's just targets that anyone can hit to reinforce the idea that the mix should be against topside whenever possible, I'm for that.

By Necronex666 at Nov 7, 2020 11:01 AM

I do agree, renaming places like CGH and FullerMed wholesale would be a bit heavy handed. I'm sure if staff did implement this, they'd carefully balance the nuance, Necro.

By HolyChrome at Nov 7, 2020 11:03 AM

A few points I'd make here:

Most of the food you eat in the mix is going to either be, or contain VS patented plant and animal products. Tony's Pizza? ViriiSoma products. Soyanuts? ViriiSoma products. Some shitty food vendor hawking kung pao chicken? ViriiSoma products.

The medical treatments in CGH and FullerMed. That's ViriiSoma SkinGraft Spray™, Viriisoma Universal Antiseptic™ and ViriiSoma Sticki-Band™.

That shipping container you live in inside XpressHeights is a NeoTrans FreightCrate™ box. Your apartment building constructed out of 97% recycled PRI RockCrete™ with nice PRI Plasti-View™ windows.

The DynaFiber™ clothing you wear, the patented food you eat, the buildings you live and work in, the Chyen™ you earn and spend. It's all corporate.

Unless your character is walking around in pelts and subsiding off dogmeat and acid rainwater, there's literally no way you're escaping corporations owning everything about you. Have you died? Your character itself is a Genetek RealU™ Clone. Are you, yourself, a product? Chances are, you absolutely are.

Branding things in the mix would certainly give people good RP props to work off from, but I can't tell you the number of times I've explicitly RPed handing people New Light Media HoloChyen™ and have gotten weird looks. This is something you can enrich your RP with. Invent products and match them to an appropriate corporation. Bring it into your RP, and pay it forward for others. Every bit helps.

By TalonCzar at Nov 7, 2020 1:48 PM

I dig it. Corporations and their influence are nearly all-encompassing. I think people view the Mix as a haven away from them but reality is that the world and everything you interact with in it is branded and paid for. That's extremely themely.

By Kiwi at Nov 7, 2020 4:14 PM

Yeah, don't do the HoloChyen thing.

By Johnny at Nov 7, 2020 8:48 PM

@Johnny

Could you explain why? I'd been basing my RP off the helpfile, so I'd been under the assumption for several years that we'd have these various corporations marketing their own script as the most aesthetic, or the most durable, or the most sanitary, etc.

By TalonCzar at Nov 7, 2020 9:04 PM

Maybe calling it HoloChyen makes it sound like something it's not? It's not holographic. It's physical material.

Branded and issued by NLM or whoever? I'm just guessing but I don't feel like that's what the objection was about.

By beandip at Nov 8, 2020 8:28 AM

OH! I could see that, yeah.

I had meant it to be more like the following two items, but I could see the potential confusion there.

By TalonCzar at Nov 8, 2020 9:09 AM

30 Years of Holograms on Banknotes

By 0x1mm at Nov 8, 2020 9:09 AM

This is something players can start handling IC if they want to see it more.

If you are PR, fund a designer to make some corporate advertising which can be displayed (and perhaps defaced) in the Mix. Are you a corp-cit who knows your company has a business relationship with a Mix clinic / service organization? Drive that reality home by insisting on getting credit for your corporation's sponsorship. Not sure who owns the "small business"? The answer might be a puppet away.

By Rhicora at Nov 8, 2020 8:44 PM

I am a fan of the Gibson-Ellisian technique of using brands to develop a sense of time and place and realness (or unrealness) in prose that can otherwise be sterile.

^ this.

Also, can we start with people realizing that the megacorps are all around them whether they like it or not? Red Sector isn't like a bastion against corporate influence. Unless you're eating rat kebabs in the Park like a real OG you're probably making your flash off corporations, whether they're crime families, whether you're a solo who's taking corporate contracts or whatever. People who throw around flash in the Mix, unless they're gangers I suppose, it's probably coming from corporate sources.

Sometimes I think a lot of players fail to realize how much of the posturing that other players and NPCs do is completely self-serving. It's a game of masks and facades. My character was friends with a character who stuck like glue to the Park and their perspective was that Park people were actual Mixers and everyone living in crumbling tenements and hitting strip clubs were corporate shills. It's all about perspective.

By Crooknose at Nov 9, 2020 6:31 PM

I also think this isn't something players can handle ICly all that well. Players of mixers may not want to ICly see this more in the Mix, even if OOCly they think it would be good for theme. And players of corporate characters may frankly just not care that much about what happens in the Mix.

Additionally, the small-wording around Mixer characters who do corporate work would make it difficult to implement this sort of branding ICly. Despite the levs being crowded with service mixers, the two or three service mixers who commute are the target of the whole PC mix's ire. There surely exist sign makers who do corporate work in the Mix, but they aren't represented by the PC population.

By Pavane at Nov 9, 2020 7:49 PM

Also, can we start with people realizing that the megacorps are all around them whether they like it or not? Red Sector isn't like a bastion against corporate influence. Unless you're eating rat kebabs in the Park like a real OG you're probably making your flash off corporations, whether they're crime families, whether you're a solo who's taking corporate contracts or whatever. People who throw around flash in the Mix, unless they're gangers I suppose, it's probably coming from corporate sources.

Since every character knows that what you're saying is true, start by calling activist characters "posers." Hell, make up some CP slang for "poser." It's overdue.

By beandip at Nov 10, 2020 5:07 AM

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